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Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

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  • Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

    Jon Chait explains why we need an individual mandate as part of our health care system. Of course, the GOP used to support this idea:

    http://www.tnr.com/article/health-ca...ndate?page=0,0

  • #2
    Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

    That way all of you suckers can stay healthy and pay into the system while I just pay the fine, which is much less than buying insurance.
    I will just buy the insurance when I get sick.
    Thank a bunch !!!
    You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
    So that when they turn their backs on you,
    You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

      From my perspective it's rather funny to see an apologetic for this idea. It's like making a case that morphine should be used in hospitals. Just seems obvious to us frozen-tundra dwellers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

        Originally posted by CallousDisregard View Post
        That way all of you suckers can stay healthy and pay into the system while I just pay the fine, which is much less than buying insurance.
        I will just buy the insurance when I get sick.
        Thank a bunch !!!
        How do you buy insurance immediately? With every private insurance I've been on, it's been at least a 3-6 month wait to enroll or get the benefits. It's not "Let me mail my app in and when it hits their desk you're in" type of thing.

        To put it in with other insurance: You can't call Allstate up and set up a policy while you're standing outside your wreck. That's fraud.

        <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
        <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
        DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

          Originally posted by Bisclaveret View Post
          How do you buy insurance immediately? With every private insurance I've been on, it's been at least a 3-6 month wait to enroll or get the benefits. It's not "Let me mail my app in and when it hits their desk you're in" type of thing.
          Every policy I've looked at did that too*. Of course, that was before Congress passed a law banning that kind of thing.

          *Actually I'm being over-generous for the sake of simplification, and I have seen policies with instant-sign-ups. The instant-sign-up policies all had exclusions for pre-existing conditions though, which will now be banned.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

            Originally posted by CallousDisregard View Post
            That way all of you suckers can stay healthy and pay into the system while I just pay the fine, which is much less than buying insurance.
            I will just buy the insurance when I get sick.
            Thank a bunch !!!
            Do you have insurance now? If so are you going to drop it and pay the fine? If not are you paying any fine now?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

              Originally posted by CallousDisregard View Post
              That way all of you suckers can stay healthy and pay into the system while I just pay the fine, which is much less than buying insurance.
              I will just buy the insurance when I get sick.
              Thank a bunch !!!
              At least you will be paying something with the fine. Right now if you get sick and go to the emergency room we suckers still pay.
              Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
              - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
              - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
              - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
              - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
              - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
              - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                At least you will be paying something with the fine. Right now if you get sick and go to the emergency room we suckers still pay.
                Well, actually NO
                Some people just pay cash.
                We don't go to the ER for every little scratch and bump and if we run up a bill we pay it.
                You(we) are still going to pay for the people that use the ER as the family doctor.
                Look at Massachusetts .... their ER visits haven't gone down and their premiums are going up.
                You people who believe you are going to get a better deal had better check the fine print, you know, since the bill was passed, now you can find out what's in it.
                But since you enjoy paying, jump right on the amnesty bandwagon, that way you can pay for 20 million new people.


                But like the man said, there is one born every day.
                You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
                So that when they turn their backs on you,
                You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                  I thought it was every minute?
                  Become a supporting member!
                  Buy a Tactical Duck!
                  Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
                  TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

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                  • #10
                    Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                    slow down due to the economy
                    You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
                    So that when they turn their backs on you,
                    You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                      So uncareful in your reading and thinking... All the article discusses is the idea of an individual mandate. It discusses nothing of the passed bill. It may be that the healthcare bill will make things worse. The article only makes the point that an individual mandate is a good thing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                        Originally posted by sordavie View Post
                        So uncareful in your reading and thinking... All the article discusses is the idea of an individual mandate. It discusses nothing of the passed bill. It may be that the healthcare bill will make things worse. The article only makes the point that an individual mandate is a good thing.
                        I'm afraid you are the one being un-careful here. Yes, the bill's discussion of the benefits of the mandate is independent of whether the rest of the bill is GOOD or not -- but it is NOT independent of whether the rest of the bill is IMPLEMENTED or not. About half of the arguments for the individual mandate take the form, "without this, the rest of the health care reform bill won't work".

                        As it happens, I fully agree with that argument -- this health care reform bill cannot possibly work without an individual mandate. However, passing an individual mandate is not the only way to solve that difficulty. Revising the rest of the reform package that depends on it would also work, and is arguably preferable.

                        The article is also highly mis-leading in its usage of Mitt Romney quotes. Yes, Romney was in favor of this idea in theory when he passed one in Massachusetts. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, he is able to replace his "in theory" opinion with an "in practice" opinion based on the fact that the policy he passed has turned out to be a disaster. Accusing him of playing pure politics with his opinion is unnecessary and unsupportable. (It's possible it may still be true, but there just isn't enough evidence to use that as an argumentative position.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                          "Imagine for a moment that you work in a hospital emergency room. And just outside the door, a man has collapsed from a heart attack. Inside the facility, literally feet away from where he lies, are the equipment and knowledge to save his life. But this man doesn’t have health insurance.

                          Would you treat him anyway? Or let him die?"

                          From the article

                          First of all with this, its not a case of insurance or not. All doctors and medical personal are bound by the Hippocratic oath. The man would get treatment for his condition, stabilized then if he had no insurance, once stable he would be discharged.


                          "Well Jayne, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                            Originally posted by Broly View Post
                            "Imagine for a moment that you work in a hospital emergency room. And just outside the door, a man has collapsed from a heart attack. Inside the facility, literally feet away from where he lies, are the equipment and knowledge to save his life. But this man doesn’t have health insurance.

                            Would you treat him anyway? Or let him die?"

                            From the article

                            First of all with this, its not a case of insurance or not. All doctors and medical personal are bound by the Hippocratic oath. The man would get treatment for his condition, stabilized then if he had no insurance, once stable he would be discharged.
                            Thats absolutely god damn right. I've had to deal with this EXACT situation before. Standing outside smoking a cigarette in the ER driveway, person has a heart attack, rush to action. Does anyone really think we stop to check insurance cards at that point? NO. We provide on-the-spot triage until he can be moved inside, then we bring him in, stabilize him, then admit him until he's well enough to be transferred to a facility that will provide non-coverage care.

                            The idiocy of a statement even inferring that medical staff would stand by and allow the person to die because they dont have medical insurance is mind boggling. These things are written by pundits and other mediocre media-heads that have absolutely no idea how medicine really works. It's sickening. The problem, as illustrated in issues such as the thread we have going on regarding oklahoma's ultra-conservative supposed anti-abotrion laws, is that politics and medicine shouldnt mix any more than politics and religion should. But the problem is that medicine is a moneymaker, so the politicians have to stick their fat grubby greedy fingers into it. As a result, you get things like this, which to the average reader, is going to draw faith away from the medical institution because they BELIEVE that the example given is the way it really functions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why Americans Should Support Individual Mandate

                              I just watched the documentary "The Corporation" last night. In it they pointed out there was a time and place when fire fighting was a private business. When you bought coverage you put that companies shield on the front of your building. If your house caught on fire other companies would not put out the fire. They would drive right by and let it burn.

                              Hospitals are required by law to stabilize people. Why would it be a law if it was never a problem? Doctors and nurses may want to treat them but the hospital may prevent them from doing it. Hospitals are a business and the primary goal of every business is to make money. You don't make money when you have to perform a service for free. The only way to make the business run at a loss is to force it to by law. Of course they won't actually loose money because they will just raise the price they charge everybody else.

                              This also goes for insurance. Almost all insurers are forced to cover certain illnesses.

                              Doctors and nurses do not provide medical care, hospitals do. Doctors and nurses are employees and can only do what their employer allows them to do.

                              I think you are correct when you say politics and medicine shouldn't mix. But I think business and medicine shouldn't mix either. So to me government is only involved to counter the effects of business. Doesn't always work perfectly but over time I think it works out better. Just like having fire fighters work as a service for the people is better than having it be a for profit business.
                              Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                              - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                              - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                              - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                              - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                              - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                              - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                              Comment

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