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Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

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  • Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

    So after seeing this in the news today...
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37089242...ope/?GT1=43001
    ...I couldn't help but think about our levels of tolerance and political correctness. It frustrates me to no end that we (the US and Europe) allow people to immigrate to our countries, and then get treated like this.

    I would say that we need to crack down on these clowns, but I wonder how or if we should, being that doing such a thing would betray our values of free speech, freedom of religion, so on and so forth.

    So what SHOULD we do? Do we remain just as tolerant? Where has our policies of tolerance and political correctness gotten us? It got Theo Van Gogh killed. Now Lars Vilks is under constant threat. How about the recent South Park episode? They were able to rip on Jesus, showed Buddha doing a line of cocaine, and really didn't say anything bad about Muhammad, except for the fact that no one was allowed to make fun of him. Guess what happened? Comedy Central (out of fear of Muslim violence) censored the crap out of the following episode. They even bleeped out the WORD Muhammad.

    This is ridiculous. If we can rip on Jesus, why can't we be equal opportunity offenders? Yes, I've been offended deeply by the way Seth McFarlane CONSTANTLY rips on Christians/Jews/Jesus/God in all of his shows, BUT I just choose to ignore those jokes, and move on. I don't write him letters, I don't get violent, I don't even THINK of things like that. Why? Because I'm every bit as entitled in this blessed country of ours to rip on anyone as I dang well please (except Muslims).

    Your thoughts on this recent incident?


    BTW, I am still all for allowing immigration of all races/creeds/ethnicities...I'm really just talking about our tolerating the intolerant. I hope I didn't make it sound like a blanket statement about all Muslims. I know that many of them are wonderful people.
    "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

  • #2
    Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

    Why do you think we tolerate such people? We don't tolerate such individuals. Do you know anyone to says we should tolerate individuals who threaten or murder others in this way? I don't, and I know lots of people that you would probably consider radically liberal. And, if anything, that intolerance is generalized to all Muslims. What tolerance are you speaking of? Are you confusing tolerance of such individuals with the notion that we shouldn't stereotype the actions and views of such individuals to all Muslims?

    I take it the censorship of the South Park episode was a reaction (an overreaction to be sure, in my view) to threats made. Concessions to what you perceive to be serious threats is not the same as tolerance. The SWAT team may concede certain things to criminals holding people hostage in order to prevent harm to innocent individuals. That doesn't mean the SWAT team is tolerant of those criminals.

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    • #3
      Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

      Tolerating muslim immigrants is vastly different from tolerating the behavior you note in that link...

      We should tolerate people from all kinds of different places, religions and cultures. We should not tolerate behavior that violates our laws.

      Seems simple to me...
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      • #4
        Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

        I should clarify. I also agree that we should tolerate muslim immigrants, as I made clear in my first post. What I'm annoyed with, is how we walk on eggshells as to not offend them. Many people don't express themselves or their comedic stylings out of fear of getting themselves blown up. Why do we put up with this? I firmly believe in the old New Hampshire motto, "Live free or die." I think Comedy Central's reaction was very typical of our society. By censoring ourselves, due to fear of violence or otherwise, we have let the radical Muslims win, therefore controlling allowing them to control us.

        It's sad to me how Sweden and many European countries have welcomed these immigrants with open arms, to in turn be treated like this cartoonist.

        Watch this. Ironically, it was a lecture about the limits of artistic expression.
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...96670#37096670
        "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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        • #5
          Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

          To be honest I think that some of the 'over reaction' shown in episode 201 of South Park, the 'bleeping' of the name Muhammad for example, was more to make a joke at the absurdity then it was out of fear.

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          • #6
            Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

            I think what's being discussed is "chilling effect":

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect_%28term%29

            Here's a website dedicated to documenting incidents of chilling effect:

            http://www.chillingeffects.org/
            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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            • #7
              Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

              Originally posted by DrakenViator View Post
              To be honest I think that some of the 'over reaction' shown in episode 201 of South Park, the 'bleeping' of the name Muhammad for example, was more to make a joke at the absurdity then it was out of fear.
              There was some fun poked but most of it was due to fear and the whole reason it was the topic of 201 was because they were forced to censor in the first place due to fear.
              |TG-6th|Snooggums

              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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              • #8
                Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                We are FAR too tolerant with them versus how they are tolerant with the people that welcomed them in.

                We would not get away with half the stuff they do if we immigrated to their countries and they come here and expect us to flip everything around to please their religious sensibilities? SCREW THEM

                I am all for freedom of religion as long as that religion is not above my basic rights such as freedom of speech and the right not to be killed for saying what I think.

                They can deal with it or hop on the first plane out.
                |TG-Irr| D_Ronin
                sigpic
                "As the storm gathers, some run from the clouds in fear...Others prepare for the rain."

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                • #9
                  Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                  Who's "them?" Sheesh.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                    Would Sharia be Ok here ?
                    Or would that be too tolerant ?
                    Lord Phillips, the most senior judge in England and Wales, has said that principles of sharia law could play a role in some parts of the legal system.
                    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7234870.stm
                    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7232661.stm

                    It is more mild on this side of the pond ..
                    http://www.strategypage.com/military.../89-53465.aspx
                    But given that we scream bloody murder if a Christmas tree goes up or we need a national movement to remove " In God We Trust " from our money, it seems a little odd that we would allow another religion to expand it's influence into non-religious life.
                    But that is simple threat assessment, remember the anti-gay law protests in California ?
                    They only attacked the Mormons, they never messed with the Baptists .....


                    But if it suits those in Harvard yard , who are we to disagree ?

                    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23470304/wid/18298287/
                    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html


                    Nobody's religion should interfere with my life.
                    If I choose to obey that religion's rules, that is my business but none of those rules should overstep the laws we currently have.
                    And yes, I think "Blue" laws are ridiculous and should be repealed as well.
                    You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
                    So that when they turn their backs on you,
                    You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                      Originally posted by CallousDisregard View Post
                      But if it suits those in Harvard yard , who are we to disagree ?

                      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23470304/wid/18298287/
                      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

                      Nobody's religion should interfere with my life.
                      If I choose to obey that religion's rules, that is my business but none of those rules should overstep the laws we currently have.
                      And yes, I think "Blue" laws are ridiculous and should be repealed as well.
                      Excellent examples! This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!
                      "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                        Does the Harvard gym have unisex restrooms and showers? If you're gonna separate those (to accommodate many barbarian cultures in the US), I don't see a problem with doing the same with the gym.

                        When I went to MIT in 1980, I found some of the dorms had unisex restrooms serving mixed-gender living. It was alien and uncomfortable to my barbarian upbringing, but that's only because I was brought up in a culture of embarrassment at exposing skin. I liken it to my fear of spiders: Mostly irrational, but that doesn't make it easy to overcome.
                        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                          Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                          Does the Harvard gym have unisex restrooms and showers? If you're gonna separate those (to accommodate many barbarian cultures in the US), I don't see a problem with doing the same with the gym.

                          When I went to MIT in 1980, I found some of the dorms had unisex restrooms serving mixed-gender living. It was alien and uncomfortable to my barbarian upbringing, but that's only because I was brought up in a culture of embarrassment at exposing skin. I liken it to my fear of spiders: Mostly irrational, but that doesn't make it easy to overcome.
                          And did MIT change their policy or give you a designated time (at the exclusion of everyone else) just to accommodate you? If you were a strict fundamentalist Christian, and felt uneasy about the unisex bathrooms, I highly doubt they would accommodate you. And I wouldn't expect them too, either. If I had a problem with a schools policy, I'd simply choose a more conservative university. Plain and simple.
                          "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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                          • #14
                            Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                            Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
                            And did MIT change their policy or give you a designated time (at the exclusion of everyone else) just to accommodate you? If you were a strict fundamentalist Christian, and felt uneasy about the unisex bathrooms, I highly doubt they would accommodate you. And I wouldn't expect them too, either. If I had a problem with a schools policy, I'd simply choose a more conservative university. Plain and simple.
                            Muslims are kinda considered weird guests. We don't really understand them so we try to be polite and accommodate them. Plus they might just be crazy enough to shoot up the house.

                            Soon enough they will be wear us out like the Christians did and we will start expecting them to adapt to our, as Scratch puts it, barbarian ways.

                            Then they will just be the redneck cousins that we occasionally fight with about the spittoon at the corner of the couch.
                            Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                            - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                            - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
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                            • #15
                              Re: Tolerance for Muslim Immigrants - Where do we draw the line?

                              Uh... no. They won't ever "be like us". They'll do their best to collectively subvert our culture into something resembling theirs. The "accommodation" of their ways at the expense of ours is irritating, to put it in a way that won't get me any negative rep.

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