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  • Regulations destroy jobs

    Or so this video would have us believe:



    Regulation is good for us, and we should beg our leaders for more of it. They know what's best, not those greedy people running businesses who claim they're giving customers what they want.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

  • #2
    Re: Regulations destroy jobs

    Well, I think there's a middle ground. No regulation is obviously a bad thing, but too much definitely hurts the economy. Cap and trade is a stupid thing to implement during our current economic climate. The government is becoming increasingly intrusive, to a scary point.
    "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Regulations destroy jobs

      I favor regulations that internalize externalities.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

      But note the limitations of regulations in accomplishing this:

      http://www.econoclass.com/externalities.html

      The problem with regulation isn't the noble objective but the poor result of a slow, noisy (control system sense), unresponsive system.

      I don't know if cap and trade is the best solution for the specific externalities it claims to deal with. That might be a good subject for another thread. But suppose it does a good job containing that externality? Why should it matter what state the economy is in? An externality implies that an innocent third party is taking a loss. That's no better than if the government stole from that party, right? If a regulation "makes right" that loss, then it's doing its job.

      A more interesting question is how to compose regulations that actually minimize 3rd party losses, without creating undesirable losses to the beneficiaries of those being regulated. For example, how do you stop incumbents in an industry from capturing the regulators and using them to protect themselves from competition by creating high barriers to entry for upstart newcomers?
      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Regulations CREATE WEALTH

        I'm a lil drunk so I will let my left knee jerk in reaction to this one.
        1 name
        Heritage Foundation.
        ::end argument::




        addendum:
        For example, how do you stop incumbents in an industry from capturing the regulators and using them to protect themselves from competition by creating high barriers to entry for upstart newcomers?
        You don't.
        But.....................
        with a slick ad campaign and a brainwashed base you CAN make people think you are changing things, even as your Cayman Island account grows larger, exponetially.
        Last edited by CallousDisregard; 05-14-2010, 04:07 AM. Reason: stuf
        You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
        So that when they turn their backs on you,
        You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Regulations CREATE WEALTH

          The best take down of the Heritage Foundation ever.

          http://www.salon.com/news/politics/c...age/index.html

          And for balance, these guys never liked the Center for American Progress either.

          http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20041028.html
          "Press the red shiny button"~Vortex
          "I may give out, but I'll never give in." ~ Lou Bond "To the Establishment"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Regulations destroy jobs

            Report: Majority Of Government Doesn't Trust Citizens Either
            http://www.theonion.com/articles/rep...citizen,17459/

            "It makes complete sense for Americans to lose faith in a government that has allowed lobbyists and special interests to take over Washington," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) told reporters. "That being said, you could see why Washington might likewise lose faith in a populace that apparently still suspects that its president is a secret Muslim who was not born in the United States."

            Citing the billions of dollars wasted annually on flavored water and boneless buffalo wings, the number of drunk-driving deaths each year, and the lack of citizen accountability for the rise of Kim Kardashian, government officials registered extremely low opinions of the American people overall.

            "This is the same American populace that failed to prevent us from deregulating the banks that almost caused a complete economic meltdown last year," Sen. Jim Bunning (R-KY) said. "Year after year, they elect terrible officials who make terrible decisions on their behalf. The fact that I, Jim Bunning, am a two-term U.S. senator really shows you just how far Americans have gone off the rails."
            Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

            snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

            Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Regulations destroy jobs

              The Heritage video is actually an entry in this contest run by the EPA:

              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Regulations destroy jobs

                LMAO
                from the video subtitling " I've seen hostage videos with better pacing "
                You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
                So that when they turn their backs on you,
                You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Regulations destroy jobs

                  Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                  Report: Majority Of Government Doesn't Trust Citizens Either
                  http://www.theonion.com/articles/rep...citizen,17459/
                  The Onion has such a wonderful way of stating the obvious. There is breakup coming.

                  As far as regulations killing jobs. Sure, but they also can create jobs. I view the government as a natural force. Some form will exists as long there are two people interacting. The sole purpose of government is to regulate the peoples actions.

                  The good thing about governments vs something like limited natural resources is that governments can mutate over time. And if a government gets to the point that it hurts more than it helps it will die. Thousands, maybe millions, of governments have died in human history. The American government, and most democracies, are always mutating.

                  So governments artificially create shortages. And shortages are the only reason markets exist in the first place.

                  Did markets exist before governments? Or did markets only arise because of governments? Chicken or egg?

                  I think in truth the two evolved together. They are fraternal twins that compete for dominance while ignoring that they come from the same womb.
                  Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                  - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                  - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                  - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                  - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                  - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                  - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Regulations destroy jobs

                    Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                    I view the government as a natural force. Some form will exists as long there are two people interacting. The sole purpose of government is to regulate the peoples actions.
                    Government is the relationship between people that involves the stick. In its most basic form, it's the gang with the strongest thugs. The market is the relationship that involves the carrot. It's one person having something that another wants, and offering to give it in exchange for something. It's the peaceful relationship.

                    The good thing about governments vs something like limited natural resources is that governments can mutate over time. And if a government gets to the point that it hurts more than it helps it will die. Thousands, maybe millions, of governments have died in human history. The American government, and most democracies, are always mutating.
                    The same can be said of any parasite.

                    So governments artificially create shortages. And shortages are the only reason markets exist in the first place.
                    But governments are not the only source of shortages. And creating shortages isn't their purpose, just a possible effect. Governments consume resources and hence contribute to shortages, but markets do as well (transaction costs). It's not a defining characteristic. In fact, shortages aren't "created" by human systems, just exacerbated. Shortage is a natural consequence of a finite universe. Neither governments nor markets "create" the shortage of doctors, for example. That shortage exists because there's a finite number of humans who are less than the total number, and most have other things they'd rather do. (Another contributor to shortage is opportunity cost, something else one would prefer to do.)

                    Did markets exist before governments? Or did markets only arise because of governments? Chicken or egg?
                    Whenever people act cooperatively, a market is in effect. When they act coercively, taking with the power of the club, a government is present. One does not cause the other.

                    I think in truth the two evolved together. They are fraternal twins that compete for dominance while ignoring that they come from the same womb.
                    That womb being human nature. We are both violent and helpful.
                    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Regulations destroy jobs

                      But we are violent, social, empathetic, greedy parasites. Cannot get around that fact. It is a fact.

                      Are you saying that the stick is never needed? That if it was somehow possible to get rid of government (and it isn't possible altering human nature) the free market would make us all happy?

                      I suppose in utopia that is true. But in utopia a perfect socialist society is just as wonderful. If everybody is happy and content why they are happy and content is unimportant.
                      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                      - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Regulations destroy jobs

                        Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                        But we are violent, social, empathetic, greedy parasites. Cannot get around that fact. It is a fact.

                        Are you saying that the stick is never needed? That if it was somehow possible to get rid of government (and it isn't possible altering human nature) the free market would make us all happy?
                        I'm not a pacifist. But I reserve the use of force for defense. I don't use it to take from others, only to prevent taking and to recover that which was taken. If you show me that something was taken without permission, then I'm happy to grant the use of force to fix the injustice. But I won't take something from someone claiming that I'm going to do better with it than they can. My good will doesn't make my taking right.

                        I include "externalities" in "taking". If you, in the process of a free and non-coercive transaction, harm a 3rd party, that's a taking, and it needs to be addressed, by force if necessary. Pollution is one example of an externality.
                        Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                        snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                        Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Regulations destroy jobs

                          What you say is a wonderful ideal. In fact I would say I often have the same ideal in mind when I contemplate who I shall vote for or when sifting through the reports of government actions.

                          Before I had children my decisions probably fell closer to that ideal. But I have found that becoming responsible for children makes one realize that the idea of possession and ownership is not as cut and dried as I had once thought. I also realized that while most understand that individual rights are absolutely necessary many don't take time to think about what an individual actually is.

                          Being able to live and think as if ideals can be achieved is a luxury provided by those that actually must pick up the stick from time to time or sacrifice a carrot of their own to achieve things required by the reality imposed by the universe.
                          Last edited by El_Gringo_Grande; 05-22-2010, 11:03 PM.
                          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
                          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
                          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

                          Comment

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