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  • spill baby, spill...

    Not much discussion here on this.

    I thought this was quite telling. Not a huge Rachel fan but this one was good.

    Do or do not, there is no try....
    -- Yoda, Dagobah

  • #2
    Re: spill baby, spill...

    Yeah, I'd say its relatively frightening that we're suing the exact same methods 30 years later and they're failing just as terribly. Obviously, to anyone that's watched the news lately, we know that the top hat, junk shot and top kill methods have all failed. You'd think that someone would have learned by now. God help the south if there's a bad hurricane season. The meteorologists and oceanographers are scratching their heads right now because one of two things could happen:
    1. Hurricanes draw their power from the warm evaporating waters of the gulf, caribbean and mid atlantic. The oil on the surface forms a barrier on the surface preventing the water form evaporating as readily, thus making for weaker storms. However, a hurricane is a hurricane is a hurricane. A category one hurricane can still produce 30 foot seas, which is more than enough to spread the oil around the gulf with relative efficiency.
    2. As with the first point, hurricanes draw their power from the water. The oil on the surface (and below) conducts heat much better than the water due to its darker color. This creates much warmer water temperatures, leading to more evaporation, thus producing much stronger hurricanes. So that category one could become a category 3 as a result.

    Obviously polar opposite conclusions. One weakens storms, the other strengthens them. Either way, bad news due to the fact that any way you slice it, you still get hurricanes which pack massive winds, high seas and quick moving rain bands. The problem is that the best scientists we have working on the puzzle dont know which way it will come out, and the only way we will know is when it inevitably happens later this year.

    A NOAA report recently theorized that a category 1 storm that passed over the spill-effected region of the gulf and turns east could spread the oil over a thousand mile wide swath in under 4 days. All that fear about the oil getting into the loop current and possibly making it to florida? That becomes a reality faster than anyone can mobilize to deal with it. Now imagine what a storm the size and power of katrina could do. Fallout of natural disaster combined with fallout from ecological disaster...its a terrifying prospect.

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    • #3
      Re: spill baby, spill...

      This is vague recollection, but my understanding is that the ocean gives us most of the oxygen we breathe. With these bacteria sucking all the Oxygen out of the water, and if this flow continues, I am, perhaps ignorantly, concerned.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: spill baby, spill...

        Oil != bacteria. This spill would have to be much more massive to effect the worlds oceans on a massive scale. The environmental impact will be localized to the gulf region. However, you're still talking about millions of people being impacted, as well as countless species of animals and enormous amounts of geography.

        But to the point spur, no, this isnt going to put our oxygen supply in danger.

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        • #5
          Re: spill baby, spill...

          It may not put our supply in danger, but it probably isn't going to help the local undersea wildlife.
          You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
          So that when they turn their backs on you,
          You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

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          • #6
            Re: spill baby, spill...

            Yeah, a bad hurricane with a significant storm surge would be a very horrible thing with so much oil off the coast.
            Do or do not, there is no try....
            -- Yoda, Dagobah

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            • #7
              Re: spill baby, spill...

              Originally posted by Spur View Post
              This is vague recollection, but my understanding is that the ocean gives us most of the oxygen we breathe. With these bacteria sucking all the Oxygen out of the water, and if this flow continues, I am, perhaps ignorantly, concerned.
              I think you mixed up 'stuff that lives in the oceans generates most of the O2' with 'the oceans generate oxygen', so you should be concerned if the oil will kill off the stuff in the ocean that generates oxygen.
              |TG-6th|Snooggums

              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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              • #8
                Re: spill baby, spill...

                Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                I think you mixed up 'stuff that lives in the oceans generates most of the O2' with 'the oceans generate oxygen', so you should be concerned if the oil will kill off the stuff in the ocean that generates oxygen.
                The way I've heard it, it goes like this:

                (1) Oil slicks will promote large swarms of oil-eating bacteria
                (2) Oil-eating bacteria are mostly of the type that uses up O2 and breathes out CO2
                (3) Therefore other sea creatures in the nearby vicinity will have less oxygen than they are used to, possibly causing localized ocean deadzones.

                The worldwide O2 / CO2 balance will not be significantly affected though, as even when CO2 does go up that just promotes more plant growth which then converts it back to O2. Similarly the "deadzones" around the oil slick will probably be fodder for lots of algae which will thrive on that extra CO2 and start converting it back to O2.

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                • #9
                  Re: spill baby, spill...

                  My point was that there is a difference between the stuff in the ocean and the ocean itself, and that the ocean itself does not store O2 that can be lost, instead the ocean is a source of oxygen because there is stuff that lives in it that generate the O2. The poisonous feature of oil will most likely kill off far more life than localized oxygen deprived sections of oceans since it kills wildlife on it's own very easily, but the end result would be the same, lack of oxygen producing life that lives in the oceans.

                  The spill is not nearly large enough to cause worry about worldwide oxygen levels that Spur appears to be concerned about even if it continued.
                  |TG-6th|Snooggums

                  Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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                  • #10
                    Re: spill baby, spill...

                    Gah, did I really need to elaborate on the oceans create O2 thing? Seriously? Fine, the critters in the ocean create o2. And if you harp on critters being too general, I think I will stab myself with a q tip.

                    Anyway, the reason I brought it up is because I felt that more oil was gushing into the ocean than was being claimed. Between that and the "plumes" of oil in the ocean, coupled with my skepticism regarding a timely resolution to this, I wonder if enough oil can gush in to seriously destabilize things. I simply do not know at what point that is. A billion barrels of oil? A million? And will the CO2 consuming stuff ramp up production fast enough to compensate? I certainly do not think it is a 1:1 ratio, but is it a 1 part oil to 1000 parts seawater? 1:1,000,000?

                    Questions like this entertain me. Take for instance Florida and all its underground water. I have always wondered if they are more likely to have sinkholes than other areas of the country. Likewise with the corn belt. They suck so much water up from aquifers for irrigation, I don't see how they can possibly refill fast enough. Are there a lot of sinkholes in that part of the country? I suppose I really should google that now just to see how my theory floats.
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: spill baby, spill...

                      Originally posted by Spur View Post
                      Anyway, the reason I brought it up is because I felt that more oil was gushing into the ocean than was being claimed. Between that and the "plumes" of oil in the ocean, coupled with my skepticism regarding a timely resolution to this, I wonder if enough oil can gush in to seriously destabilize things. I simply do not know at what point that is. A billion barrels of oil? A million?
                      If it reaches a trillion, we'll most likely have some problems. As it is now? Not even close. Localized problems sure, but nothing close to global destabilization.

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                      • #12
                        Re: spill baby, spill...

                        Well this resume the situation pretty well IMO :

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                        • #13
                          Re: spill baby, spill...

                          ^ Hehe, that was good.

                          I had this delusion that oil-soaked birdies who get Dawn bubble baths live happily ever after. Turns out less than one percent survive. :-/

                          sigpic
                          "The true genius shudders at incompleteness - and usually prefers silence to saying
                          something which is not everything it should be." Edgar Allan Poe

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                          • #14
                            Re: How big is this oil spill really?

                            Man.. someone should start some Trolling comment about global warming and banning off shore drilling.
                            Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. - General George S. Patton.

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                            • #15
                              Re: How big is this oil spill really?

                              Originally posted by GeneralCarver View Post
                              Man.. someone should start some Trolling comment about global warming and banning off shore drilling.
                              Randy = Ace ! - Warlab
                              Level II Volunteer FireFighter
                              Level I HazMat Technician
                              NYS EMT-B
                              Town of Mamaroneck Fire Dept.

                              sigpic




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