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Grokster Lost!

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  • Grokster Lost!

    And now we wait for the other shoe to drop. This is probably the end to P2P.

    For those of you that don't know, I'm in Law School, getting a JD to add to the alphabet soup. My interest is in Intellectual Property, so I was waiting to see what the Supremes might do.

    To recap, MGM sued Grokster (et.al on both sides), for providing technology that makes IP infringement possible.

    Grokster countered that merely providing the code does not make them liable, since the technology has other uses.

    MGM appealed, and the appeal court upheld the lower Court's holding for Grokster.

    The Supreme Court however saw it differently. P2P technology in the case of Grokster, is an indicement to infringe, and therefore liable.

    The case has been remanded to the lower court, with a suggestion that they reconsider MGM's original motion for summary judgement.

    Unless P2P companies can show a legitimate use for their software, looks like they are going to be held liable for any infringment by their users.

    Guess it was fun while it lasted.

  • #2
    Re: Grokster Lost!

    Technology lost.

    3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Grokster Lost!

      When was the INDUCE act passed?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Grokster Lost!

        Originally posted by TG_Mateo
        To recap, MGM sued Grokster (et.al on both sides), for providing technology that makes IP infringement possible.

        Grokster countered that merely providing the code does not make them liable, since the technology has other uses.

        MGM appealed, and the appeal court upheld the lower Court's holding for Grokster.

        The Supreme Court however saw it differently. P2P technology in the case of Grokster, is an indicement to infringe, and therefore liable.
        And suing gun companies for murders is silly why now?
        [volun2]
        NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
        Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
        <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
        <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

        Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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        • #5
          Re: Grokster Lost!

          Originally posted by RandomGuy
          When was the INDUCE act passed?
          June, 2004.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Grokster Lost!

            Sounds like just another case of government bringing in laws to avoid law enforcement or lawyers doing their job.

            If someone commits a crime, of any kind, it should be up to law enforcement to catch the offender, gather evidence and hand it off to the courts. This negates the need for such a silly process.

            If you're going to go after p2p, lets just take every ISP in the world to court because there's child porn on the internet. Obviously all the staff at all the ISP's are clearly to blame for what their customers do.

            Root
            BFCL TF2 league admin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Grokster Lost!

              It's just as ridiculous as the DMCA:
              http://www.google.com/search?q=kazaa
              Scroll down to the bottom of the page. That's right, google is now held accountable for the content of the internet. By indexing and providing pages that provide "circumvention devices" for Kazaa's terrible network, they are breaking the law. They were sued under the DMCA to remove those pages from there results (kazaa isn't the only one, for example search for "Desktop Wallpaper").

              When it comes to anything digital, the law just doesn't quite understand. The RIAA continues their rampage too, despite CD sales being up in 2004, the biggest year of illegal downloading.

              I like the analogy Poker. I suggest you patent the human circulatory system, then sue gun manufacturers under the DMCA for creating a circumvention device that breaks your system.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Grokster Lost!

                Originally posted by Pokerface
                And suing gun companies for murders is silly why now?
                Not the same thing. Guns !=murder, the same way that Grokster=piracy.

                Guns have a legitimate uses, and are protected under the right to bear arms. Criminal sanctions are based on the idea that as free agents, we have a decision over whether or not to commit the murder.

                On infringement "crimes", making the hardware and software available that can lead to IP infringement is not a crime, if there is a legitimate use for it (think VCRs, DVD burners, etc...).

                But one look at Grokster's fasttrack network tells you that the software exists for no other purpose than infringement.

                I think Bram Choen may get a pass, since bittorrent has legitimate uses, but it's hard to say. The Congress is deep in the lobbyist's pocket...they may try to expand on this ruling to include software that has legitimate uses as well.

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                • #9
                  Re: Grokster Lost!

                  ISPs offer actual services that are not illegal. What the Supreme Court said, in its unanimous decision, was that grokster and others have failed to demonstrate legitimate use for their products, and in fact have done a great deal to make the illegal uses well-known. Such businesses can be sued.

                  I tend to think that the technology is pretty interesting and may have a legal use someday, but who can deny that today it's mostly used to steal? What marketing have you seen to promote its other uses?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Grokster Lost!

                    Originally posted by Root
                    Sounds like just another case of government bringing in laws to avoid law enforcement or lawyers doing their job.
                    Actually, this creates MORE work for law enforcement and lawyers. More raids, more cases, more court appearances.....as if the courts in the US weren't overloaded already.

                    If someone commits a crime, of any kind, it should be up to law enforcement to catch the offender, gather evidence and hand it off to the courts. This negates the need for such a silly process.
                    Copyright infringement is a white collar crime, so it's not like law enforcement is going to get involved until the activity is certain and egregious. This gives the IP holders a stronger hand in enforcing their rights.

                    If you're going to go after p2p, lets just take every ISP in the world to court because there's child porn on the internet. Obviously all the staff at all the ISP's are clearly to blame for what their customers do.
                    No, not the same thing. See my answer to Poker.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Grokster Lost!

                      But how else will we distribute TacticalOS!!!

                      It is a tool like a hammer is a tool - you can build a house or murder someone. The makers of that tool are not liable to its (mis)use, the people are.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Grokster Lost!

                        Originally posted by micr0c0sm
                        It is a tool like a hammer is a tool - you can build a house or murder someone. The makers of that tool are not liable to its (mis)use, the people are.
                        Exactly. You know what's needed? Counter-lobbyests. People who get sensible laws passed using all sorts of black ops tactics.

                        Root
                        BFCL TF2 league admin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Grokster Lost!

                          I think Bram Choen may get a pass, since bittorrent has legitimate uses, but it's hard to say. The Congress is deep in the lobbyist's pocket...they may try to expand on this ruling to include software that has legitimate uses as well.
                          Bram better get a pass: he thought up nothing more than a transfer protocol. But I guess since it's protocol that involves more than one person in its dissemination, the law would find it easier to clamp down on the innovator. :-/

                          Just when you think Betamax is over, here it comes again...
                          [volun2]
                          NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
                          Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
                          <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
                          <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

                          Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Grokster Lost!

                            Wow, how long till thought crimes are instated? But I am not shocked in the US no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Kids kill kids because they do it in video games. Teenagers kill teenagers because they listen to Gangsta Rap.

                            Inducement is a cop out I know it you know it, now lets get the morons on the hill to figure it out... oh wait they are being paid not to.. my bad
                            sNIFF

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Grokster Lost!

                              That position claims that if my neighbor starts a business selling b&e equipment and reporting on my posessions and whereabouts (for a fee or to direct traffic to their b&e business) and I'm robbed using equipment they sold, then my neighbor can throw up his hands and claim innocence.

                              It defies logic. Of COURSE these companies are liable. They make software that people CAN use to exchange spreadsheets, emails, text files, whatever, but they market their products using games, mp3s, mpgs, movies, etc. etc. etc. Without the illegal part of their business, there would be very little business.

                              Hiding behind a principle to steal is as stupid as allowing crime to become rampant because a principle says you have to let those criminals go free. Something's gotta give.

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