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  • Proposition 8 overturned

    Ruling: http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/ima...ing.pdf?hpt=T1

    CNN 'report': http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/04/cal...pt=T1&iref=BN1

    A federal judge in California on Wednesday overturned the state's ban on same-sex marriage, saying the voter-approved rule violated the constitutional rights of gays and lesbians.

    The decision, issued by Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker in San Francisco, is an initial step in what will likely be a lengthy legal fight over California's Proposition 8, which defined marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

    At stake in the trial was whether California's ban on same-sex marriage violated the constitutional rights to equal protection and due process of two gay couples that want to marry.

    The case was watched closely by both supporters and opponents of same-sex marriage, as many say it is likely to wind its way up to the U.S. Supreme Court. If it does, the case could end in a landmark decision on whether people in the United States are allowed to marry people of the same sex.
    I'll comment again when I get a chance to read the ruling.

    note: The judge's sexual preference is irrelevant.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

  • #2
    Re: Proposition 8 overturned

    Aw hell yeah. :)
    I can ADS using more than a 2x without significant stutter! This was a good patch.

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    • #3
      Re: Proposition 8 overturned

      Quote from the Governator on the issue:
      "For the hundreds of thousands of Californians in gay and lesbian households who are managing their day-to-day lives, this decision affirms the full legal protections and safeguards I believe everyone deserves," he said in a statement. "Today's decision is by no means California's first milestone, nor our last, on America's road to equality and freedom for all people."

      Go Arnold! I completely approve of this ruling. Enough of backward ass laws grounded in intolerance, fear and bigotry.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Proposition 8 overturned

        :icon14:

        There will be much rejoicing today in my neighborhood!

        My immediate thoughts:
        1. Young people need to get off their lazy butts and go vote. Prop 8 most likely wouldn't have passed if voter turnout among their age cohort was higher. However, in the long run maybe it is a good thing that there was a court ruling on this issue.
        2. Civil rights issues should not be decided by popular vote. See slavery, segregation, etc.
        3. Secular gov't needs to clarify 'marriage' as a legal term w/o religious connotations, or just use 'civil union'.



        TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran

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        • #5
          Re: Proposition 8 overturned

          Originally posted by tau_neutrino View Post
          Secular gov't needs to clarify 'marriage' as a legal term w/o religious connotations, or just use 'civil union'.
          I absolutely agree with this point. If you want to get "married", go to a church that approves of your "marriage" and do a ceremony. Civil unions should be between any two men, two women or one man and one woman who want the LEGAL benefits of being a single household. No more marriage licenses, just civil union licenses, regardless of your sexual preference. Universal and without religious underpinnings.

          For example, I'm a straight guy, but I can go get "married" by any justice of the peace or clergyman who will perform the ceremony, but that doesnt guarantee that I'll reap the legal benefits of having a joint household unless I've taken the necessary legal steps. The same thing would be true if I were gay though, with the notable exception that there are a lot of people who would deny those legal benefits simply because the religion has become intertwined with the law out of several hundred years of apathy and ignorance.

          Thats all it amounts to. Now, gay and lesbian couples wouldnt be able to be married in many churches by that definition, but there are plenty of places that will marry them in a ceremony. Either way, marriage needs to be separated from the legal connotations it has taken on by default.

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          • #6
            Re: Proposition 8 overturned

            Tau has the right idea, but distinguishing "marriage" and "civil union" won't work. The battle is over the term "marriage". California already has a "domestic partnership" that gives the same rights to gay couples as a "married" couple has, yet we still have this fight over the term "marriage".

            According to Wikipedia, four states have "civil unions", five states (and Washington, D.C.) have "domestic partnerships" much similar to civil unions, and three states have "other forms of recognition" that basically grant same-sex couples some-but-not-all the rights of marriage.

            I think the entire battle is ridiculous, but... I'm not religious. At least, it LOOKS like a religious battle from my outsider's view. If California has a partnership that grants a gay couple the same rights as a "married" couple, then the battle seems to be over the use of the word itself.

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            • #7
              Re: Proposition 8 overturned

              Originally posted by Gill View Post
              Tau has the right idea, but distinguishing "marriage" and "civil union" won't work. The battle is over the term "marriage". California already has a "domestic partnership" that gives the same rights to gay couples as a "married" couple has, yet we still have this fight over the term "marriage".
              No, it only gives the same state rights as married couples in California and the few states that recognize it. I am married in Kansas, so no matter what state I go to I have rights that are given by marriage that do not apply to civil unions outside their own state. A couple from California doesn't have the same ability to get spousal coverage for insurance in other states that don't recognize the CA union.

              Civil unions are just a new version of separate but equal. It still isn't equal.
              |TG-6th|Snooggums

              Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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              • #8
                Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                RT: @TheWeatherStation Volcanos erupt in California! Plagues of locusts ravage streets! Seas turn to- no, wait, it's just a bit cloudy.
                Link.
                |TG-Irr| westyfield

                Sig pic by Sonic, avatar by Chalcas. Thanks!
                Irregular since 2007.

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                • #9
                  Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                  Originally posted by snooggums View Post
                  No, it only gives the same state rights as married couples in California and the few states that recognize it. I am married in Kansas, so no matter what state I go to I have rights that are given by marriage that do not apply to civil unions outside their own state. A couple from California doesn't have the same ability to get spousal coverage for insurance in other states that don't recognize the CA union.

                  Civil unions are just a new version of separate but equal. It still isn't equal.
                  Not quite. Thanks to the Full Faith and Credit Clause, all other states MUST respect civil unions, and treat them as they would any other out of state license, like your Driver's Licenses. But, unfortunately, DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act gives states that would rather not, an out. Specifically in that they don't HAVE to recognize a civil union or even marriage involving people of the same-sex.

                  But last month Federal Judge Joseph Tauro ruled, in two seperate cases, that Section 3 of DOMA was unconstitutional. This is a small victory though, as this would, if it holds up, only eliminate the federal definition of marriage and spouse, but its still a start.

                  As to the Prop 8 thing. I really like how the state of California was not an active participant.
                  BF 2142:|TG| Birdman10113
                  CoD4: |TG|Birdman

                  Let's put the badges here...

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                  • #10
                    Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                    I applaud the judge on this decision, though we all know that this case will keep getting appealed until it hits the Supreme Court. For now at least, about time.
                    |TG| 16note



                    Steam: 16note, Xbox Live: thefifthbeetle

                    **

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                    • #11
                      Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                      Originally posted by 16Note View Post
                      I applaud the judge on this decision, though we all know that this case will keep getting appealed until it hits the Supreme Court. For now at least, about time.
                      I have heard from most experts/news stories that the SCOTUS probably won't hear this particular case. To messy and is more of a state issue. It seems to me they probably won't hear anything about gay marriage until one state rejects another states legal marriage and somebody challenges that.
                      Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
                      - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
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                      - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
                      - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
                      - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
                      - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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                      • #12
                        Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                        About time. Its 2010, and if Adam and Steve down the road want to get hitched, more power to them. The "won't somebody think of the children" arguments are pretty hilarious, imo.
                        Do or do not, there is no try....
                        -- Yoda, Dagobah

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                        • #13
                          Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                          Originally posted by Birdman1011395 View Post
                          Not quite. Thanks to the Full Faith and Credit Clause, all other states MUST respect civil unions, and treat them as they would any other out of state license, like your Driver's Licenses. But, unfortunately, DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act gives states that would rather not, an out. Specifically in that they don't HAVE to recognize a civil union or even marriage involving people of the same-sex.
                          It is law until it is successfully contested, per Gringo's excellent explanation:

                          Originally posted by El_Gringo_Grande View Post
                          I have heard from most experts/news stories that the SCOTUS probably won't hear this particular case. To messy and is more of a state issue. It seems to me they probably won't hear anything about gay marriage until one state rejects another states legal marriage and somebody challenges that.
                          My state recently amended the state constitution, adding:
                          16: Marriage.

                          (a) The marriage contract is to be considered in law as a civil contract. Marriage shall be constituted by one man and one woman only. All other marriages are declared to be contrary to the public policy of this state and are void.

                          (b) No relationship, other than a marriage, shall be recognized by the state as entitling the parties to the rights or incidents of marriage.
                          There is no way for me to challenge the national constitutionality of this amendment, since I cannot be personally affected by the law, and the US court system does not allow third parties to challenge a law without representing the affected. From your Wiki link Birdman:

                          According to Andrew Koppelman, a law professor at Northwestern University and the author of The Gay Rights Question in Contemporary American Law, "No state has ever been required by the full faith and credit clause to recognize any marriage they didn't want to."[16] This issue first arose with regard to interracial marriage. Until the Supreme Court struck down all laws banning interracial marriage in 1967, a number of states banned interracial marriage and did not accept interracial marriage licenses issued in other states.
                          |TG-6th|Snooggums

                          Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                            This is great news! I look forward to a lengthy trial most likely in the supreme court.

                            This is why the judicial systems exists, when there are to many lazy voters :P


                            - -

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                            • #15
                              Re: Proposition 8 overturned

                              For debate's sake:

                              Why is the vote invalid due to "poor voter turn-out"? (Those who cared about Proposition 8 voted. Those that didn't, abstained.)

                              Why does this fall under the subject of civil rights? Gay couples are given the same benefits as married couples under California law.

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