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Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

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  • Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

    In regards to this little article http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...amed_a_wi.html ... but not specifically targeting the state of Mass, since I am sure a dozen of these went out to other states... but let me vent..

    . regarding School funding by the federal govt. Giving out financial Awards like a dog trainier giving out treats... I really like this quote: " He said the state's decision to adopt national standards for the teaching of English and math was one of several factors that helped to propel the state to the top of the list, calling it a "well deserved" accomplishment."

    So what was the "Well Deserved" accomplishment... caving into the Federal Government to get a payoff? And I am glad a good chunk of Other states taxpayers money went into the TREAT bag to get schools in other states to cater to some national standard that my local school district shouldn't waste their time on.

    We are becoming a f'ing joke..led by the Voters who either don't give a damn or are too stupid to see it.

    Vent over..
    |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
    ..now where did I put my keys?

  • #2
    Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

    In addition to that, check this out:
    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...ool.hln?hpt=C2

    They built a $578 MILLION DOLLAR public high school in LA. Gee, dont you think that money could have been better used elsewhere in the education system, like on teachers or books perhaps? What a ridiculous society we live in.

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    • #3
      Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

      Personally, I think education should be left up to the states and the US Department of Education should be abolished.
      |TG-X| mp40x



      Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!

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      • #4
        Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

        Personally, I think education should be left up to the states and the US Department of Education should be abolished.
        +1
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        • #5
          Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

          Won't SOMEBODY think of the children??!! They NEEEED a $578 million dollar building to secure their futures! Forget those greedy teachers!

          What a sham all of that extravagant building going on is. My grandfather was taught in a one room school house in a craphole old West style town in West Texas on the border. A town called Presidio. He went on to A&M and became a civil engineer, and even started his very own successful firm after WWII (in which he was a Captain at D-Day). I can't stand these gilded halls that politicians think the kids need. I went to a local elementary school to vote a couple elections ago. I was shocked and appalled at how nice it was. Marble floored entryways, unbelievable fixtures, state of the art everything, etc. In the meanwhile, I'm paying out the nose for school taxes, and the teachers still don't get paid nearly what they deserve, books are underfunded, test results still suck, etc. It's funny. This might be a topic we agree on from all sides of the political spectrum! Good post.
          "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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          • #6
            Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

            Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
            My grandfather was taught in a one room school house in a craphole old West style town in West Texas on the border..
            And walked 5 miles in the snow barefoot..UPHILL in the summer heat, and was glad he went...

            I just had to add that...I grew up hearing that and I pass it down to my kids


            No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
            George S. Patton

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            • #7
              Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

              Originally posted by redneck_fgf View Post
              And walked 5 miles in the snow barefoot..UPHILL in the summer heat, and was glad he went...

              I just had to add that...I grew up hearing that and I pass it down to my kids
              Haha. Seriously. Google "Presidio, Texas", and see what comes up. In the 1930's it only had a population of around 100. It's the definition of podunk. I've visited there a couple times before. It's grown to about 4,000+, but still has mostly dirt roads. It looks like you're in 1800's Mexico.
              "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

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              • #8
                Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                They are spending millions are a few schools in Maryland to do geothermal heating. Thousands and thousands of dollars were just invested in to solar panels on my school. Yes, these upgrades may pay back in the long run, but the budget is still in serious condition. Couldn't that money be used to keep music programs funded and such?

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                • #9
                  Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                  Originally posted by mp40x View Post
                  Personally, I think education should be left up to the states and the US Department of Education should be abolished.
                  You don't have to follow the Dept of Ed's standards. Here in Kansas we declined the Race to the Top as we have a decentralized public education system (KSDE accredits and has accreditation requirements but we don't force districts to do most things) so many of the requirements that had went against our legislatively determined school arrangement and would require changes to state law that weren't worth the funding.
                  |TG-6th|Snooggums

                  Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                    Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
                    Won't SOMEBODY think of the children??!! They NEEEED a $578 million dollar building to secure their futures! Forget those greedy teachers!

                    What a sham all of that extravagant building going on is. My grandfather was taught in a one room school house in a craphole old West style town in West Texas on the border. A town called Presidio. He went on to A&M and became a civil engineer, and even started his very own successful firm after WWII (in which he was a Captain at D-Day). I can't stand these gilded halls that politicians think the kids need. I went to a local elementary school to vote a couple elections ago. I was shocked and appalled at how nice it was. Marble floored entryways, unbelievable fixtures, state of the art everything, etc. In the meanwhile, I'm paying out the nose for school taxes, and the teachers still don't get paid nearly what they deserve, books are underfunded, test results still suck, etc. It's funny. This might be a topic we agree on from all sides of the political spectrum! Good post.
                    Agreed. The high school that i graduated from (H. B. Plant High in Tampa, FL) was far from a one room school, but it was built in 1929 with an additional hall built in 1958 and 26 portables that were put on the outdoor basketball courts in 1978 and never moved. During my freshman year, the roof of the first floor in the south hall collapsed on 2 classrooms, one of which being my Geometry class that I had just walked out of. No serious injuries, but several of my friends did get minor cuts and scrapes from falling debris. Hell, we couldnt even have track meets at our stadium because the bleachers they built in the 60s stood between the track and the football field, so you had 100 yards where athletes were out of view and the school board deemed it "unsafe" to have meets because of that.

                    And you know what, it's still one of the top 20 high schools in the country (74% of my graduating class went to college) and the sixth richest (by family income) in the country last time I checked. Not to mention that Wade Boggs and Gallagher (the comedian that smashed watermelons for you young'ns) are just a couple of the famous names that graduated there. Oh, and its still old and falling apart a decade after I left it. Wonder when my old HS alma mater is going to get a half billion dollar upgrade.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                      Originally posted by mp40x View Post
                      Personally, I think education should be left up to the states and the US Department of Education should be abolished.
                      Yeah, the states have had such a good track record. Arkansas' numerous attempts at creationism, Minnesota's Profile of Learning, Texas spear-heading the Bush NCLB garbage...

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                      • #12
                        Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                        Originally posted by Flarfignuggen View Post
                        Yeah, the states have had such a good track record. Arkansas' numerous attempts at creationism, Minnesota's Profile of Learning, Texas spear-heading the Bush NCLB garbage...
                        I'm not sure that I'm following what you're trying to say.

                        You rattle off some complaints about state education decisions. One of them being Texas, and their state program (TAKS) that was the model used for NCLB. But NCLB was a Federal program, and an expensive bad one at that. So what's your point? State education decisions are inherently bad, therefore the Feds should take over?

                        The US Department of Education, in my opinion, is a colossal waste of money. And is one of many government agencies, departments, and programs that should be cut or abolished. Mind you, I'm in favor of quite a few government programs and departments, just not this one.

                        This is from our libertarian friends at the Cato Institute. I can't agree with them on every issue, but they're absolutely right about this particular issue.

                        The Department of Education operates a range of subsidy programs for elementary and secondary schools. That aid is matched by rising federal regulatory control over the schools, but federal intervention has not generally lifted academic achievement. The department also provides subsidies to higher education through student loans and grants. Unfortunately, that aid has fueled inflation in college tuition and is subject to widespread abuse.

                        The department will spend $107 billion in 2010, or about $900 for every U.S. household. It employs 4,100 workers and operates 169 different subsidy programs.
                        Under Bush, "The Department's budget increased 69.6% between 2002 and 2004." According to Wikipedia:

                        Annual budget

                        US$32 billion (2009)
                        US$56 billion (est. 2010)
                        US$71 billion (est. 2011)
                        Then they got all of this money from the stimulus bill.

                        ARRA Funding:

                        US$102 billion (2009)
                        US$51 billion (est. 2010)
                        US$23 billion (est. 2011)
                        Their budget is going up nearly $20 billion a year. The Obama administration is also wholeheartedly in favor of increased spending for this department. Where does it end?

                        Like I said before, leave education to the states.

                        The Department of Education should be closed and its programs terminated. The main activity of the department is to provide grants to state and local governments. However, channeling taxpayer dollars through Washington and then back to the states is an inefficient way to fund local activities such as education. It would be better if the states funded their own education programs free of all the paperwork that comes with federal aid.

                        Federal intervention into primary and secondary schools has steadily increased since the 1960s, but there have been no obvious improvement in educational achievement. Indeed, standardized test scores for K-12 students have been stagnant for decades. Interestingly, Canada has virtually no federal involvement in its schools, but Canadian students generally score higher on international tests than do American students.

                        The sad truth is that rising control from Washington has probably damaged American schools by reducing local flexibility, retarding innovation, and burying school administrators in regulations. Federal involvement should be ended, and it should be up to the states, the schools, and parents to boost school performance. Cato scholars have proposed many ways to improve the schools.

                        Federal loans and grants to college students should also be ended. Personal savings, financial institutions, and charitable organizations are more efficient funding sources for college costs. Federal student aid has proven to be hugely wasteful, with large amounts of fraud and abuse combined with inept federal administration. A further problem is that rising federal aid has generated inflation in college tuition and other educational costs. Thus, ending federal student subsidies would create beneficial pressure on colleges and universities to trim their bloated budgets and reduce their tuition.

                        The table shows that taxpayers would save about $107 billion annually from closing down the department, or more than $900 annually for every U.S. household. Link.
                        Last edited by mp40x; 08-25-2010, 04:58 PM.
                        |TG-X| mp40x



                        Register for the Forums! | Get on Teamspeak! | Play Squad! | Join Discord! | Support Tactical Gamer!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                          My suggested point was that giving states total autonomy would not necessarily be the best option. I suppose it's that I feel there needs to be some sort of central hub for the system but yeah, it shouldn't be even 10% of the size it currently is. To be honest, going through the DoE office with a flamethrower or two would probably help to alleviate quite a few issues.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                            The sad thing is that we even have to call the states the "Lowest Common denominator " .. How about LOCAL CONTROL. We do elect a local school board...have a local school adminstration. Let's figure out what is weak in our area..work on that... In my area we are very Machine Shop/CAD Design oriented...lots of Math heavy stuff.. and that is what the local economy needs to keep the work force doing what it does..
                            We Should not be making a cookie cutter, one size fits all, student ... Leave it up to the LOCAL community.. Then if there is an issue..dig in..

                            But don't Tax the shizzle out of us..take our money..then hold it over our heads, only to give us a taste if we conform to some DOE standards.. Its the FEDERAL way..just look at the 55 Mph speed limit and Highway Funding.. Same deal.. MY head is going to explode..
                            |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                            ..now where did I put my keys?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Venting -- School Funding example... Fed Govt are the Puppet master...

                              You want to know how to solve the education problem? I can break it down into several VERY easy points:
                              1. The PRAXIS is a JOKE. 4 years of college with ANY degree to teach ANY subject based on a test that any high school graduate could pass. Put it this way: it makes the SAT look like rocket science. Increase the standard required to be a teacher.

                              2. And this point MUST follow #1: START PAYING TEACHERS. You want people, educated people, to come to a place every day and impart knowledge and the occasional life lesson to whiny, unruly, apathetic children 5 days a week. Fine. And you want them to do it straight out of college with $40,000 +/- in student loan debt hanging over their heads. Cool. But you have to be willing to pay them more than 24k a year to start. Why? Cause if you dont, they'll go back to school, become nurses and be making 3-5x that much a month after they graduate. How do I know? I DID IT.

                              3. How about giving kids textbooks that werent published circa 1985? Sure, for some math books that might be OK, seeing as algebra hasnt changed that much in recent history. But if you've got a world history teacher teaching from a book that only lists the presidents up through Ford, it might be slightly lacking by, oh, 40 years worth of historical fact.

                              4. GET RID OF ALL STANDARDIZED TESTING. IT IS USELESS. The SAT and ACT are a joke. You know what they test? How skilled a kid is at taking a test. Nothing else. It doesnt really test vocabulary, math skills, science skills, reading comprehension, etc. Thats all a BS party line to get kids to line up and pay $150 bucks a pop to take a test that costs approximately 45 cents per copy to produce.

                              5. Redesign school hours. There have been no less than 10 studies published everywhere from the APA to the AMJ that have made ABSOLUTE correlations between starting school later in the day (at 9 or 10 am, for example) and increased grades, test scores and knowledge retention rates. Bottom line: kids are going to stay up late on school nights. Attempting to get them to pay attention at 7:30 in the morning is USELESS.

                              6. Get rid of the ability to drop out of high school at 15/16. If kids know they're going to be forced to go to school as long as everyone else with no hope of parole, its been proven that they get better grades and test scores.

                              7. For the love of god, QUIT MAKING COLLEGE MORE EXPENSIVE. It has literally come to the point where federal financial aid AND pell grants (which add up to approximately $2400 per semester) are no longer sufficient to cover in-state resident tuition rates at most public universities. Why? Because instead of renovating exisitng buildings, many universities are choosing to build new ones that cost 10x as much. CU is a great example of this: they just completed a single building on campus with a pricetag of 384 million dollars. Sure, it's top of the line, but an investigation by a local paper found out that the school could have renovated no less than 6 MAJOR buildings on campus to the same technological specs for the same amount. And guess who gets to pick up the check? The student body with an increase in tuition by 8% and an increase in student fees by $355 per semester.

                              8. Stop paying school administrators hundreds of thousands of dollars until teachers are making just as much. I'm sorry, but being on the school board and dictating policy isnt that hard. One of my best friends from high school has had his mother on the school board where we grew up for almost 20 years. His honest opinion: she does about 4 hours of work per week and 2 of them are at the school board meetings. She makes 144k a year for it. Awesome.

                              Just a couple thoughts on that.

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