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Chart: Federal spending versus median income

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  • Chart: Federal spending versus median income

    Interesting graph:

    http://politicalcalculations.blogspo...one-chart.html

    You can see the "drunken sailor" spending of the Bush Congress over the last decade, followed by an "impulse" (vertical spike) in the data for 2007-2009, presumably from the bailouts.

    There's a similar bubble during Bush 1 that moves back onto the linear trend line during Clinton.

    The fact that the last point "leans backwards" is due to a fall in median income.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

  • #2
    Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

    I kinda wish the graph was better. Having years be arbitrary floating points isn't very good. Really they should have had two lines with either the x-axis or y-axis being years. Regardless of this I find spending taken as a flat amount not very good to compare. Doing some more personal research shows that federal revenue has also increased to match the rise. Shouldn't we be comparing ratios or something?

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    • #3
      Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

      The author provides links to his data sources, so it shouldn't be too hard to knock out a chart of your own devising with Open Office.

      I think I'd divide the outlay by the population to get a per-capita figure, since the median income is per-capita. That would reflect the contribution of income to a taxpayer's own share of the outlay. The question then becomes which population number to use: Total US population? All taxpayers? All taxpayers who were counted in determining the median?
      Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

      snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

      Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

        I would say all taxpayers, but again you have to factor in their revenue as well. If we're spending less in regards to how much money we're taking in revenue but still spending more money overall, aren't we better off than in the Bush era? Also how much of this spending is due to programs started or set forth by the Bush administration and how much is due to Obama's administration? How much of it was for natural disasters relief and aid such as Haiti or the BP disaster? This is what I would like to know. A simple graph of spending provides no context whatsoever.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

          How will that chart look 20 years from now?

          Meaning that data looks different when you have to view it from higher altitudes. The current years data might just look bad because it is so close to our eyes.

          Saying that you do have to consider what happened in the years leading up to the 2008 financial meltdown. You give all the money to such a small percentage of people what else can happen? The people will spend what has been kept from them.

          There is a problem with everybody focusing on the video game called "The Stock Market". It does seem to blind and confuse us.
          Iím not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
          - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
          - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
          - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
          - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
          - "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
          - "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife

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          • #6
            Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

            The graph also doesn't show some of the effects of spending.

            Does the increase in Social Security match up with an increase in life expectancy when adjusted for inflation? How about accessibility to preventative medicine? Do families that rely on government health care spend less than they did on private insurance for the same services?

            Just taking spending and income and ignoring the other results is ridiculous. Government spending went up when the interstate system was put in place, but did it have a positive impact on society that made it worthwhile?
            |TG-6th|Snooggums

            Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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            • #7
              Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

              Is a chart that shows personal outlay versus [i]personal[/] income for yourself informative? I'd guess that's what the objective of the above chart was, for an entire nation. To show that the country isn't staying within its means, but acting like a person who loads up on credit card debt and then declares bankruptcy.
              Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

              snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

              Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                It can be, but raw numbers don't always tell the whole story.

                Do computer prices reflect usage? Does an increase in TVs per household automatically mean people are spending more when TV prices drop or they add to an existing number instead of replacing?

                Govnt pending vs median income is ok, but what about corporate taxes and tariffs? States with zero state income still pay the bills after all, even though their dollars spent go up and income is not so relevant.
                |TG-6th|Snooggums

                Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                  BTW, at the risk of leading everyone out of Sandbox territory :p I wanted to point out a nice package for data visualization that I'm using in my in-house robotics app to check our performance. It could be handy for playing with data like the above.

                  http://paraview.org/

                  Some sample images:

                  http://www.flickr.com/groups/paraview/pool/

                  Sample videos:

                  http://vimeo.com/kitware/videos

                  For programmers, you can use the underlying C++ framework, the Visual Toolkit (VTK):

                  http://vtk.org/

                  The system is organized to "pull" data from a source through filters to a rendering object, so it's similar to the way video games work. You provide your source data as a C++ object that produces data for a given point. There's a bunch of existing objects that know how to read common file formats (which is what you'd use from Paraview). The rendering window then asks the final filter for the value of data at a given point in rendering space, and that filter asks the previous filter for its output, etc., back to the source file object. This ensures that you don't waste compute cycles for data "between" pixels on your display or outside your rendering window.
                  Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

                  snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

                  Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                    Originally posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
                    To show that the country isn't staying within its means, but acting like a person who loads up on credit card debt and then declares bankruptcy.
                    But that's the thing, the country is staying much better within it's means than it was before during the bush administration. By factoring in revenue the spending vs. revenue gap is lower than it has been in the last decade.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                      Originally posted by Sirusblk View Post
                      But that's the thing, the country is staying much better within it's means than it was before during the bush administration. By factoring in revenue the spending vs. revenue gap is lower than it has been in the last decade.
                      When you say "the country", do you mean the people or the government? If you mean the people as a whole, you're right. People are being much more frugal these days and a bit more conscious about how they spend their hard earned dollars. If you mean the government, you can't possibly be serious, can you? Congress is throwing away money worse than a bunch of drunken sailors on shore leave. I was angry with the Bush administration for spending like a bunch of Democrats, and now that the Democrats have been in power, it's even worse than the Bush days! Even most of my most liberal friends even agree that government spending is pretty out of hand these days.
                      "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                        Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
                        When you say "the country", do you mean the people or the government? If you mean the people as a whole, you're right. People are being much more frugal these days and a bit more conscious about how they spend their hard earned dollars. If you mean the government, you can't possibly be serious, can you? Congress is throwing away money worse than a bunch of drunken sailors on shore leave.

                        Numbers beg to differ buddy. Notice how only under Obama's administration have we been able to start to curb the insane spending and start to generate some revenue again? Look at the facts.

                        Originally posted by War.mongeR1 View Post
                        I was angry with the Bush administration for spending like a bunch of Democrats, and now that the Democrats have been in power, it's even worse than the Bush days! Even most of my most liberal friends even agree that government spending is pretty out of hand these days.
                        This again is such a wrong statement. Whoever came up with the notion that Democrats are big time spenders and Conservatives are big time non-spenders is just plain idiotic. I'd love to know where such an erronious statement came from. Let's look at the last couple of presidents and their budget shortfalls:
                        Bush Jr (R): -3.2%
                        Clinton (D): -0.1%
                        Bush Sr (R): -4.3%
                        Reagan (R): -4.3%
                        Carter (D): -2.4%
                        Ford (R): -3.5%

                        In fact if we look at spending alone and not how well they balance their budget this is the conclusion: "Since 1970, spending has grown 64% faster when a Republican sits in the White House than when a Democrat does." People are willing to go along with assumptions simply because of mob rule. Your liberal friends are no more informed than your conservative ones. People love to grab onto these phrases such as federal spending out of control. It doesn't actually speak to the facts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                          Originally posted by Sirusblk View Post
                          Your liberal friends are no more informed than your conservative ones. People love to grab onto these phrases such as federal spending out of control. It doesn't actually speak to the facts.
                          Ignorant malcontents are ignorant malcontents? Big surprise.

                          I'd love to know where such an erronious statement came from.
                          Many, many years of gradually redefining the context of the words "liberal" and "conservative" to the public.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                            You can't just look at the Presidents, Mr. Sirusblk. The Clinton days were indeed good, but that was under a Republican Congress. To President Clinton's credit, he was good about signing the Republican Congress's ideas into law, and I applaud him to this day for many of those measures he went along with. The Reagan budget was due to smashing the Russians economically and finally bringing the Cold War to an end. Bush, Jr. also had a war involved, and amazingly that war pales in comparison with future domestic budgetary spending.

                            Also, you'd be right in that Republicans have been horrible spenders. This is EXACTLY why incumbents aren't safe at all this November. People are fed up with the spending that BOTH parties are responsible for.
                            "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Chart: Federal spending versus median income

                              Originally posted by Sirusblk View Post
                              Notice how only under Obama's administration have we been able to start to curb the insane spending and start to generate some revenue again?
                              Where's the source for this? Or is it a joke? I'm sorry if I'm taking it wrong. The charts look pretty bad for our current president - whether he's compared to his great democratic predecessor or Bush.

                              sigpic
                              "The true genius shudders at incompleteness - and usually prefers silence to saying
                              something which is not everything it should be." ó Edgar Allan Poe

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