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17th of February - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

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  • [AAR] 17th of February - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

    Unfortunately I have neither screenshots or any video to show. So I'd like to start by saying, if you have any media or reports/opinions to add from this night, please post it here!
    So yesterday we ran as an Infantry only platoon. The setup was: all on foot, the only vehicles allowed are a few Sundy's as redundant spawns. Our baseline-spawn was provided by our spawn beacons. Sundy's where used as offensive spawns and occasionally to grab a kit.

    Our MO was very simple, although somewhat different than usual reasoning. Written as a "how to" guide, so other people can use some techniques that worked.

    1) Set all beacons at platoon waypoint.
    I would put the waypoint in a spot +-300m from the flag. All the SL's had to put their beacons exactly on that waypoint to assure they were up or down together, streamlining platoon organisation.

    2) Designate squad-objectives with colored smoke.
    The 4 smokes make it possible to set 4 sub-objectives for each squad. Usually three squads would provide a base of fire from ridges around the enemies we are attacking. One squad would be moving in the thick of it to capture a control point or destroy e.g. a sundy. Thus respecting the iirc 3 to 1 ratio accepted in military doctrine for suppression and flanking. (number of soldiers supressing vs number of soldier moving in/flanking)

    3) Squadleaders place green waypoint on squad-objective
    This isn't always necessary, but probably a good sop here, as only the bottom of the smoke is colored. Iit is easier for squad-members to find their way with the green waypoint. The smoke is used more as a means of communication from PL to SL.

    4) Defend/attack objective until given new orders.
    Whatever happens -WHATEVER as in even when things are completely fubar- squads hold or attempt to retake their objectives until further orders. This is key and this was working amazingly once the squads got into the habit of it. It was especially effective once people experienced that it worked. Once this happened, the platoon was on a roll it seemed.

    When the squads stay organized in the middle of total combat chaos, what they did last night, then the gold wind blows.
    Then the Platoon leader can make battle altering decisions on a dime. This is what armies all over the world focus nearly all of their training on; on retaining the ability to act as an organised unit in the thick of battle.

    In the 'battle of Indar Comms" last night as one example,
    we defended against first a suicidal zerg rush (armor+infantry) by raining down the holy annihilator fire on them in just awesome volleys of sparkly death.
    After what seemed like a warcrime on our part, commited against them innocent TR smurfs :). The enemy got a foothold on our west flank just next to the base. Sundy spawns with armor supporting of approximately platoon-strength caused our west squad to die several times. The Battle was locked for long minutes in the very middle of the Indar Comm Array. All squads were admirably sticking to their objectives. The furthest squad was not on the front line, but they had a lot of AA at our spawn and covered our flanks. It looked like we were being overwhelmed, but somehow the battle stalled in a lethal back and forth were we fought over mere meters. All troughout the squad that was pushed off tried to regain it's ground assisted by the squad to whom's position they were pushed back.

    Then at one point we gained a good 50 meters on them and they felt a bit weak. I asked all squads to rush them. It was glorious wave, rolling over a good bunch of enemies with beautiful violence.

    So the end of the how-to guide got a bit into the aar:

    It was a long session so I won't go into specific moments much. When we started doing this infantry only, and walking often 800m to reach an objective, our numbers in the platoon kept growing consistently. Showing that this is an attractive way for people to play, maybe even more so an attractive way for public players to join us in a meaningful way.

    Once we started using the smoke designation system, I noticed squads moving together on the map like I have never seen before. More often than not, even when I didn't ask, the squads were uni-colored blobs on adjacent positions on the map. This is remarkable to me. Our numbers kept growing and pretty soon we had four full squads doing this.

    It seemed people, squads, really got on a roll. They picked up the habit of rolling with their color :p, over the habit of deciding for themselves where to go. We were all getting shots, all getting kills, points for ammo, revives anyway, and it was working we were getting easy kills. We were flanking platoons moving perpendicular to us, and just murdering them as they struggled to realize in time the gravity of their situation.

    I asked squads to trust the other squads to perform their role, and help them by performing their own role instead of trying got do the other guy's job. We used proximity to tell people 'hey dude you're walking with the wrong color, please go to your squad'. And they did so.

    It was a total blast to platoon lead yesterday. We defended against attacks, as huge as one could possibly defend against. We took many points decisively. We got superior positioning on the flanks of enemies on countless occasions, allowing us to kill many many foes. I personally had an amazing sense of control as so many tactical options became available to me as the platoon got into this amazing groove. I recommend all platoon leaders have a go at this, or at least consider using some of the techniques found effective yesterday. One key remark here is that they have changed the rendering distance for colored smoke from +-50m to hundreds of meters. Without that this would not have worked. I think the use of the smoke, while a technicality, was really a key element to yesterday's kind experience. I recommend people on the platoon-leading list at some point invest in getting the 4 smokes.

    Yesterday was for me truly the type of experience that I imagine when I think of TG. And I wish to commend everyone in the ps2 community for the way we are evolving our play, withe moment of relaxed play, and moments of more organised play mixing pleasantly imo. At the same time I see a steady increase in our ability to work together effectively.

    I certainly was not the only one having a ball yesterday, that I know. Many of the public players that fell into the platoon asked for more information about our outfit, shared their appreciating in our playstyle. Some were quit vocal about it on voip too. Comments from public players included (paraphrasing): "Best organisation I've ever seen in this game" when one was comparing our play to their experience with other outfits, "Actually spotting and calling out directions", "Exactly what I'm looking for, "Thanks"...

    As I said, 't was a ball. Thanks to the squadleaders, exceeding expectations.
    Last edited by Buflak; 02-24-2013, 04:08 PM.

  • #2
    Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.


    I'm glad to see the 'shiny' is starting to wear off the game and that our SL/PL's are experimenting with new and innovative ways in which to lead. Makes me wish I hadn't been so doggone tired yesterday and that I had hopped in-game!

    Great work, Al!



    • #3
      Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

      Nice AAR Al.

      It my was my first time trying to squad lead Alpha after RedTalon and until DaddyOfThree took over. Thanks to Daddy, Serj and other TG guys for helping me out. To be fair, this is a pretty easy way to introduce yourself to squad leading because the PL is doing a lot of the decision making. I ended up mostly hustling my squad and playing my equipped role.

      Alpha had several AA MAX units, engineers and medics to provide support. The new engineer AT turrets worked out really well for me, the range is ridiculous on the open hills and desert of Indar.

      However, I struggle with the lack of transport and large amount of platoon comms.

      Of course I'm happy to play according to the preferences of the PL. I enjoy the experiment and helping other people find what works for them. The variety is important.

      I think the trade off in mobility with a lot of visible infantry means you can attract a lot of allied support. If not for auto-run, the cost would be too expensive.


      • #4
        Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

        In response to platoon comms comment.

        I didn't experience it as much of a problem myself. TO me it was mostly a couple of non-tg individuals that I think mostly by accident or habit kept using platoon chat. COnsidering we did have 48 people at some point, I thought it was a minor problem.

        But then as a PL you are mostly dealing with comms, so you also have more time for it I think, and you need less battle comms. I'll try to hammer on that more. But Ideally, If a squ&admember is using platoonchat, I would want the SL to correct him. If I do it as a PL, then I create even more comms in the platoon channel.

        About the lack of transport you speak of; I felt we were moving as fast as a mobilized platoon for distances upto 800m/1km. If I subtract the time needed to get in a sunderer that is. Moreover on foot you are much less vulnerable, much more able to repond to a threat than if you have 40 guys in 4 vehicles. For longer distances, just getting everyone on a flash seemed like the perfect solution.

        As to your squadleading, first off great job you did all that was needed. Secondly it is not harder in other platoons. All our TG vets have the capacity and the knowledge (except sometimes familiarity with the interface). Most of the differences are down to differences in style, differences of opinion, differences in tactical ideas. The only things I think that is holding people back from the joy of testing those ideas, is utterly baseless insecurity, self-doubt where none is needed. It's even more so with platoon leading.

        Just the other day Wyatt showed me a totally new way of defending the revised tech-plants (Eisa techplant specifically) when we held it for the longest time in a pretty epic battle.

        This is to all players really:
        put your self-doubt aside as if it was a piece of old furniture you never really used. Take the PL seat, and make us do something you've always wanted to try. We'll try to make it work as best as we can. And if people don't like it, complain and get bored and leave... well cannot help you there cause that happens to me all the time :D.

        Oh I forgot to mention the max crash!
        At one point we did a max crash on Allatum. The players got set up in the teleport room organised in 60seconds from when I arrived as point man (I had announced we were going to do it before that). There was a platoon-size or near-platoon-size force inside the dome. We went in and killed everything in one minute. The enemy then was immediatly contained in the spawn. They spawned a few maxes but it was futile. The few people we had lost had been safely revived. In both speed, and decisiveness... beautiful. When I compare that to our first attempts at a max crash... getting C4-ed after waiting for 5 miutes for more people to switch to max... LOL.


        • #5
          Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

          I had a blast yesterday playing in this operation! Thanks to BigGaayAl for leading it!

          When I first started out as air support for the platoon. For a while we had an awesome tail gunner too! We focused on taking out sunderers and any armor/air that was hitting our friendlies, as well as spotting for them.

          I recall in one attack, (the name of the base escapes me) we destroyed 3 or 4 enemy sunderers. Our boys were eventually pushed back, but I felt like we really helped ease the pressure on them by limiting enemy reinforcement.

          When our boys fell back and held a hilltop, we did tight patrols, and harassed armor as it came in waves towards our guys. It was exhilarating, and under BigGaayAl I really felt a bond with the guys down there on the ground, they were "our" boys. Had a fantastic time of it, whenever we heard the infantry calling out enemy armor positions we tried to assist as fast as possible.

          Eventually the crew disbanded and I joined Charlie squad under BigAl. The level of teamwork was great. We were defending a base and each team was assigned a compass point to defend, with a smoke color on that point. Our team was west, purple, and we held the western high ground. But the fighting grew TOO intense. We were pushed back, by armor, air support and maxes. The fight that follows will live in my memory for a long time. We were defending a rectangular mesa, which rose slightly as it went from west to east, s the western edge was downhill from the east, but still above he surrounding terrain.

          Enemy air power, especially fighters, but some liberators, bombarded us. One squad was assigned to stay on the objective roof top and provide cover, everyone else had their side. Once we started getting pushed on the west, other squads helped us. We did a coordinated MAX crash, and made ground retaking the western vehicle terminal, and the ridge line. However our victory was short lived. We were eventually pushed back into the middle of the mesa and almost back to our spawn. It was a free flowing maddness. We tried flanking north, only to find infantry ready to meet us, All the while air power made runs on us, and enemy armor bombarded us. We were under siege.

          Then the decicive moment came. BigGaayAl yelled something like "Charge, we have momentum!" And we did! We surged forward and retook the western ridge for the last time. I felt like letting out a battle cry, and some guys did on local chat!

          We held a bit longer, then moved out to another base. Again we established good solid specific defensive positions and we rained down missles on an approaching tank group. I saw at least 10 lock on missles flying aat once, it was a hail of rockets.

          Later than night, we MAX crashed a big lab with around 20 maxes. Biggest one I have seen in PS2.

          Lots of fun, thanks to everyone involved!
          The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


          • #6
            Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

            Holy hell I missed a hell of a session, gutted I wasn't there but thrilled to read how much fun it was and how well people did. Bravo. I won't miss the next one!


            • #7
              Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

              Rats, I missed an epic battle under one of TGs finest platoon leaders.

              Most people respond very strongly and positively to precise, clear orders and the example of others following those orders. These orders deliver to the group a sense of unity -- team work.

              The type of organizational effort (command, communication, control) that BigGaayAl creates leaves a very strong impression on pubbies and delivers an experience of PS2 that is not easily found elsewhere.

              I'll work towards capturing Al in action on video and present a video of his approach asap.

              Gentling herding stragglers ("group up with your colour/squad"), grouping the platoon up prior to action (starting out by setting clear expectation for teamwork and following orders, getting a visible demonstration of that demand -- "beacons go HERE"), keeping squads on their missions (execute the order until a new one is given) -- all this delivers to Command squads that act with high cohesion and are able to respond to targets with combined firepower.

              Having played often with other outfits I can say that excellence in command, cohesion in squads, discipline in comms, and inspirational leadership is rare in the PS2 environment.

              If we want to grow the TG outfit the best way to do this is to distinguish ourselves with a very high level of excellence in communication and group cohesion -- the stuff that BigGaayAl demonstrates is possible to achieve.

              I am beginning my "Reading Week" at uOttawa, which means I get to play while my students bust their butts to prepare for my mid-terms. I intend to study this ARR further and practice platoon leading in the afternoons (EST).

              I want to be able to do what you have done!

              I must admit to being intimidated by such excellence, but as Al says, potential squad and platoon leaders need to step up with confidence.

              I think the most significant thing in this thread is Al's observation, "I see a steady increase in our ability to work together effectively."

              This bodes well for the future of TG in PS2.


              • #8
                Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

                I think I should try and recall the series of events that took place at Quartz Ridge, now that I remember more bits and pieces.

                After caping the northwest quarter of Indar, the platoon that called themselves |TG| found themselves at Indar Excavation Site and leading the wave of zerg. The small convoy of four Sunderers promptly rolled up to Quartz Ridge Camp, parked outside of the vehicle gate while the infantry breached the base. Resistance was initially light, consisting of about a squad of TR as the zerg wave rolled on in. Points B and C were quickly capped while the shield generator was also destroyed and everything seemed to be in control...but things would take a turn for the worse. People could hardly push out from the shield generator, let alone make a push to point A. C got recapped and what seemed like constant explosions rocked the encampment. Then, the inevitable clan tags started to pop up; [TE] The Enclave. The Enclave finally made it to the scene and started to halt our advance and for the longest time, people were afraid to run through the front gate only to be killed by a few Prowlers they had sitting there.

                I, on the other hand, wasn't afraid to run past a couple of tanks just to make it to C, slightly disobeying my SL but things kind of went into the crapper when they're getting camped at B and hardly anyone is making a push. With about three pubbies, I lead the charge to C, reviving them when they went down and gunning any TR that stopped us. Compared to B, resistance was light with about ten TR there as we made that desperate run into C, quickly capping it and mowing down anyone that walked through the door. But alas, it was just me and another pubbie, the other two guys were killed in the chaos of making it there. Out of grenades and bullets in my mag, I could only watch when a TR medic and heavy ran through the door and put half a clip into my face. Damn those T9 CARVs having the higher magazine capacities, I'm sure my Carnage BR would have taught them a thing or two about balancing power with rate of fire and accuracy. :p

                After about seven minutes in the grinder, the call was made to fall back to Indar Excavation due to it being capped. Those reports ended up being false when we got there, constantly scanning the skies for air threats while planning what we were about to do next. I can't remember where we went afterward, I think it was Allatum and then Tawrich as we steadily pushed the TR and Vanu back to their own warp gates.

                From that point on, we were fighting the Vanu at Copper Ravine Station, trying to make sure none of their air could make it out of the warp gate without crashing and burning. Unfortunately, a Galaxy with three guys flew too low and no one spotted it in time as it flew towards Lost End Outlook, the Vanu capturing it and respawning with a vengeance on that point. The west side of the map also had trouble, losing Sandstone Gulch Mining and several of the adjacent territories. It was clear at that point we weren't capping Indar that night, but there is always next Friday...
                I would say our organization was incredible that night, everyone following orders and sticking to the plan. We had some troublemaking pubbies, but they were promptly dealt with. I know when we accepted CoiledTortoise into the Outfit we raped his speakers with everyone welcoming him in. :D It wasn't anything mean, we saw you go offline and then decided if he comes back on, he's getting the loudest welcome we can muster.

                All in all, this has sort of inspired me to lead the platoon at some point even though I'm lacking all the certs to make it worthwhile. I remember leading a squad of TGers around the east side of Indar, keeping everyone together and telling them what we needed to do. But I will say that things will get really hard to understand with platoon voice chat, outfit voice chat, and squad voice chat. I know I was probably getting on Xen's nerves with my constant chatter in Squad while he was issuing orders in Platoon. I know for a fact I want to lead a squad using the old |TG|NUTS squad name from my days playing Battlefield 2142, but it'll probably be more of a more-casual squad than what we have going on most of the time.

                "Certainly, being bombarded with 105 millimeter shells is bad. But the knowledge that you've armed your enemy thus, with your sloth and your ineptitude, unfolds in the heart like a poison." Tycho from Penny Arcade in reference to the nuke in MW2


                • #9
                  Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.



                  • #10
                    Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

                    Lol I have to say I kind of liked that with the music and the explosions :p.

                    A note on liberator support:
                    On the ground you will not notice it is there at all, let alone helping you. I noticed our liberator support at times, and sometimes trough comms, but I had no idea of how much damage they were doing and when.
                    They did however I suppose get a steady stream of intel from my platoon comms, and we had enough AA up to be helpful at most times. It is very hard to estimate the effectiveness of liberator support.

                    I was thinking, as yesterday I also did a bit of a platoon and it was more difficult. Seems to me you have to be a bit lucky too, in a sense that have to have like a perfect storm of the size of enemies, platoon members that help you out, ...

                    On the other hand the times that we had a powerful platoon going, being responsive, switching to rockets for tanks, switching to maxes quickly, it seemed that we were able to take on much bigger forces. And even if they would beat us, often they would suffer a lot of casualties in the initial push.

                    I was trying to do the infantry only thing again, but we were smaller and rarely attacked by a decent size force that we could handle. People got bored and many complained about walking places. Still the smoke technique for setting squad objectives seemed to work well enough. There is just little use to it if you are either pummeled by a force twice your size, or spend time shooting at a single mosquito far off, or chasing a single enemy.

                    Sometimes it just works great and other times it seems to fall apart there are to many variables to really know why I think. Perhaps the amount of TG per squad really matters too.

                    I would want to add though that I like to be very lenient for pubbies. As long as they are on the same continent and close enough near us, I'll leave them in the squad. They may just be listening and seeing if we're worth helping out. They may be getting a coffee and be afk, or they may have misspawned etc etc.

                    Then when organisation goes up, I might kick them quicker, to make room for people that will do better. I figure even if they cannot hear voip, but they are sitting with their squad giving ammo, they are helpful for the time being. Also you only get one chance to make a first impression.

                    @ Wicks, I searched for the WIP infantry guide you spoke off but couldn't locate it in a search.


                    • #11
                      Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

                      @Al, linky.


                      • #12
                        Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

                        Indar Comm Array

                        When I joined we were holding Indar Comm Array [West side of the map, high up on the hill before the pass heading to Allatum Bio Lab]. I was in Bravo squad, initially cleaning up a few enemy infantry on the East side, by our spawn.

                        After a while there's a big push West, help is called for and Al wants some MAXes. Bravo is best suited to react fast, so I switch to a standard scatter/AT MAX. We charge past the objective, most go through the building, while I elect to go around it with a few others. Immediately a single TR turns the corner and runs into me. Bad idea. I mow him down, then pick one of a few enemy tanks and fire whatever the AT rounds are at him.

                        I see our MAXes and others running down the stairs, but hold back as there's very little cover beyond the building. Sure enough, the tank takes a disliking to me and I have to back off before he kills me. I don't see any more of the push, but it seems to have created a no man's land between us and the TR. Many NC soldiers are hunkering down inside or around the building, ready for a long war of attrition. I repeatedly hit the tank, unfortunately I can never quite kill it before needing to retreat inside the building for repairs.

                        Then one small thing changed this back and forth completely. Open ground we can't cross? Anyone guessed yet? Yep, smoke.

                        Finally, I'm not shelled the moment I leave cover. I can see a tank Q-spotted through the smoke and keep hitting it. I'd also asked for more help out-damaging his repairs, and rockets fly in as well. One tank down. I hesitantly move in, seeing a few others already doing so, and some around me. We'd all noticed a sudden lull in fighting, including Al, who immediately yells "charge!". Through the smoke we go.

                        On the other side, a poor Sundy helplessly tries to turn away, but soon explodes (or maybe it was a tank?? A lot else happened, I'm trying to remember this early fight). Another tank is backing off, I hit him as well. He makes it to the hill and almost reverses out of sight... just as a final rocket snakes over the edge and nails him.

                        I don't really remember infantry, since I was focused on vehicles. I have a feeling the enemy may have retreated from us, but even if they did, that doesn't change the fact that smoke made it easy to push against the remaining forces.

                        Armor? What Armor?

                        After that we moved between bases a lot, but at some point returned to Indar Comm Array and set up defensive positions. Then an armor column appeared at the base below us, towards Allatum. Tanks, Sunderers, Lightnings.

                        What happened next was an absolutely glorious sight - it rained rockets. I swear, we would not only kill a Sunderer in one salvo, but have enough rockets still in flight to kill a second, if not a third (or maybe a tank). The armor just withered and died without any fight because we both had the high ground and were well out of their effective range. For some reason they continued to pull Sunderers in plain sight. Sufficed to say they barely got off the pad.

                        Also, I think we've found the epitome of overkill when ~20 rockets are fired at one engineer's turret.


                        -I must say, our Platoon was utterly on the ball for repairs, ammo, health and revives. Not just TGers, the pubbies too (minus one rock we had to drop-pod on that our Engy unfortunately missed).

                        -I'm not sure whether it's graphics settings or what, but I didn't see the smoke until we were right on top of it. I think PLs should still say where smoke is as they place it - particularly since it won't be as obvious as waypoints. Perhaps ask all squad leaders to open the map, then "Alpha place squad marker at platoon marker, Bravo place squad marker at platoon marker..." and do it that way?

                        -As far as running between bases vs transport, I'd say this is really only viable as long as you're running to adjacent territories. It's effective because when we get there, there's no disembarking or organising right infront of the enemy - we just hit objectives as individual squads. For spawns, beacons are quickly placed beforehand, and maybe a Sunderer can roll in behind us, after the initial push.

                        If you travel further, I think everyone should either pull flashes or redeploy closer. Once you get one base away, infantry go on foot, while a couple Sunderers can be pulled from the base you're at.

                        -Thank you Al for leading and trying something new! Seeing squads work so closely and locking down specific targets was awesome.

                        Originally posted by Mech__Warrior View Post
                        I think I should try and recall the series of events that took place at Quartz Ridge, now that I remember more bits and pieces.
                        That was the Friday Night Fight, but good story. That was terrific fun as well.

                        |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.


                        • #13
                          Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

                          Originally posted by MrJengles View Post
                          That was the Friday Night Fight, but good story. That was terrific fun as well.
                          Oh, whoops. I thought this was that thread. I guess there isn't an AAR for Friday Night Fight yet.

                          "Certainly, being bombarded with 105 millimeter shells is bad. But the knowledge that you've armed your enemy thus, with your sloth and your ineptitude, unfolds in the heart like a poison." Tycho from Penny Arcade in reference to the nuke in MW2


                          • #14
                            Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

                            No worries Mechwarrior. Although I was puzzled for some time by your contribution, in the end it fits very well with the rest of the thread.


                            • #15
                              Re: 17th of Februari - Infantry platoon "How to guide" + AAR.

                              Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                              One key remark here is that they have changed the rendering distance for colored smoke from +-50m to hundreds of meters. Without that this would not have worked. I think the use of the smoke, while a technicality, was really a key element to yesterday's kind experience. I recommend people on the platoon-leading list at some point invest in getting the 4 smokes.
                              This was my FIRST EVER platoon Ops. with this Outfit and OMG DID THIS SMOKE COME IN HANDY~!! Squad leaders invest in these! i myself spent ALL OF TODAY(Feb-21st) SAVING UP CERTIFICATION POINTS JUST FOR THESE!....Because i noticed something PHENOMINAL about BiggayAl's platoon leading that day,...PEOPLE GRAVITATED TO SMOKE MORE SO THAN TO PLATOON WAYPOINTS!! ESPECIALLY because platoon waypoints, when set at a Bio Lab, and our platoon is INSIDE THE BIOLAB, the waypoint shows up OUTSIDE ONLY, not a smaller more noticable one inside the building,....WHERAS SMOKES....THOSE can be seen "Billowing-Up" in EXCESS of almost to the height of what this game would consider "2-story-Buildings", WHICH WAS THE PERFECT SIZE for infantry and the Sunderer's to spot it! ...anyways just wanted to put my 2-Cents in, and AL thanks again for the amazing leadership that day!...its one of the reasons i look back and ENJOY SPECIFIC memories in games like this!!




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