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Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

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  • [AAR] Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

    1) Octagon defense

    It started out with an infantry squad, defending at the octagon on Esamir. We were outnumbered 4 to 1 or so, caught in spawn. But before we had to fall back to the octagon, I had placed a call for help (defense-) marker on the map. (Defense markers really do help very much in the right conditions.)

    We hung in the unfair fight, but steadily more blueberries appeared. We got to similar pop on the sector, but were caught in spawn by a whole platoon. We couldn't get out.

    So we went trough the teleport all together, and assaulted a slightly different flank. We failed to hold it. But we immediately followed up with the same breaching attempt on the other flank (not using teleport).

    We managed to get trough the choke and get a foothold in the building. The blueberries used this channel to all get out of spawn and into the building with us that I believe has one of three control points.

    There the situation stalled. We were doing good, but we were running out of cap-time. SInce the blueberries were all just following us... We had to take action. So again all together we breached the next choke to get trough a field of enemies to another control point building. In all Id say those were three successful by the book breaches, each decisive in bringing us a step closer to defense. I loved HOW we did that. I bet those berries were impressed.

    2) Esamir capture

    Then Randy volunteered a second squad. He used the galaxy and reaver support effectively to ferry us around and respond quickly to situations where the infantry squad was, and in adjacent territories when enemy pop was low. After holding TR at the warpgate for a good time, killing all break away attempts, we got the continent.

    3) Indar alert intervention

    During this time though I had kept an eye on the ongoing alert on my hated Indar. At 40 minutes from the end of the alert (capture 3 biolabs on Indar) I noticed that the stalemate had been broken, and NC was first attacking, and then owning Allatum biolab. Rashnu had been ours. SO we decided to get in to the queue so we could have a chance of being decisive in the alert without staying on Indar for long.

    When arrived we had still one air squad and one infantry squad. Small but versatile we were. We stayed away from the biolabs at first as they were safe enough. Then word came from the outer leaders in /orders and /l that a huge TR force was threatening to go to Rashnu. We got a galaxy ride over there quickly as our gal was up and available. I ordered us to fly into a platoon or two. And we all died basically. But we were there. First off were three flags already over run by a force 3 or 4 times ours. But we tried, even though the TR had already pre-spawncamped the next base every time. Still we were using all channels (Randy also using /orders) to get more help to the biolab whilst in this losing fight.

    We got that help, but would it be enough as we were also losing the Allatum biolab, whilst being overrun towards Rashnu.

    The ending was utterly epic. I was counting the seconds, and lagging like hell, as we fought over every meter of ground in the biolab with a friendly force of one to one and a half platoon. There was just no holding that TR though. They were like water, streaming into and trough every opening, whether they were taking fire or not.

    We held them for a maybe just a minute or five, slowing them down as they tried to enter the lab. THe air squad, killed by the huge force, were instrumental in switching to infantry on their own initiative for that short time.

    But we lost control of the biolab, all control points. I kept us trying to flip C -point in a mad rush, to hopefully cap one point a few seconds to get those extra few seconds before the alert end. Meanwhile I was watching for us to redeploy to allatum in the last 2min 30 sec, when the capture time for Rashnu would be longer than the alert duration. But we couldn't rest our laurels. It was too close to call.

    I bit my nails whilst frantically respawning, and fighting.

    At 30 seconds from the Alert ending, I did the math and realized we would lose Rashnu, but we would lose it 2 to 4 seconds after the end of the alert! Thus it happened. Allatum had also been falling, are was barely held.

    Shrieks of joy in the chat all-over. THe whole NC team was ecstatic it seemed, as they should damn well be. It was an excellent clutch team effort, on a 33/33/33 pop alert. The TR had made a great play for the win, very strong on their part.

    4) Esamir alamo & Eisa techplant gal-drop-deflection

    We then moved back to Esamir. Fighting 2 to 1 ratio against the vanu in terms of map population. We found ourselves in some sot of Alamo fighting with the whole NC team it seemed for ages against what seemed like two platoons flooding us. We lost the continent, but we hung on to our Alamo in a fierce long battle that ended up costing I would bet a lot more VS lives than NC. From that we moved to Eisa techplant with our high-morale zerg. We took it easily, but then right as we were about to cap the VS sent a large galaxy drop, seizing back the point and the SCU. But we got back in there just barely, and prevailed again in a good fight against this dangerous VS move.

    All around great games with half to two thirds of a full platoon, we had been able to be decisive in clutch situations throughout the night trough our cohesion and cooperation.

    5) Notes on platoon organisation

    Squads operated loosely with very little platoon comms going on. I wish to stress this because I hope people will connect different specialty squads much, much more. I had planned this, because I think our community needs for us to bring all the specialty squads under the banner of the same platoon.

    What we need for this is for Platoon leaders to rigorously respect the specialization a SL volunteer chooses. We will only be able to bring all the separating squads like most notable the seemingly ever private harasser squads into the cooperation.

    The reason we are not working together, is that Platoonleaders have been asking these specialty squads to e.g. redeploy and suddenly do other things. Or they have been asking to much of them, thus making them ineffective. Therefore these SL's have learned that they cannot be effective in a platoon, this to my personally great disappointment. This is causing us to split off some of our best players almost constantly with no means of cooperating with them. As an outfit, this is a huge drain on our effectiveness.

    This is why again I plead. Get that second squad going. Ask the SL his specialty, and respect it. DO NOT EVEN ASK TO CHANGE IT. Work with what you have and adapt your tactics to the tools you have. All I asked of Randy's squad, was ASK occasionally whether he could pick us up, or respond to some other need. The air squad only changed to ground ONCE, but not by my ordering them, but by their identifying the need for it, and the usefulness of it in winning the alert. 10 minutes in a whole night, on by their choice.

    I should add that this is a bit of a wink to other PL's, among others Ytman. I think this night proved very well that by building on whatever you have, you can be decisive in alerts and in continent captures, even in even fights, with any force, by building on what your platoon offers you at the time, without trying to respond to very many things all over the map by redeploying a lot, and without re-tasking the platoon elements at all.

    I think as long as the platoon elements are in the same map quadrant, my only requirement, they are effectively working together. They are free enough to be effective in their role. They are also close enough to respond on occasion when help is needed or targets of opportunity are identified. Platoon chatter is very low, and we are using our squad's abilities to their fullest.

    Finally, I want to stress this is just my suggestion offered for consideration I do not want to force anyone to go this direction and alienate them.

    Good game all!

  • #2
    Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

    Thank you Al for this AAR and I personally believe your moving in the right direction with your views of the specialty squads. The utmost consideration is that everyone has fun with the tasks at hand. Because if it isn't fun, then why even play the game let alone be in a outfit. People gravitate to the things they are good at or interested in and thereby become talented at them. Leaders need to learn to use that talent and interest for the good of the outfit and not try to mold (tell) people to kit, play or force them into a role they don't want to do. When you do that your getting half an effort, they don't have fun, and they sure aren't committed to the goal. And worse case, they just won't join the platoons any more. And it doesn't take a tactical genius to tell you that it's hard to throw a war when no one shows up.

    Thanks again Al for this AAR and your efforts, you have been missed my friend.


    • #3
      Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

      Thx alot Al for that review of the night i hope we get one that fun today(friday night!!!)


      • #4
        Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

        Al, great AAR and thanks for taking the time!

        Also, thanks especially for bringing that up about bringing everyone together under one platoon, regardless of specialization. I couldn't agree more! I think all of us PLs could (at times) stand to be more open minded about including diverse units/squads in our platoons. You might be surprised how well they work together some times!

        I have been saying for a while now (as RAGE is saying here also): let people do what they like, chances are they are good at it and have certed into that role / vehicle quite a bit.

        Oh yeah, and welcome back! You have been missed!
        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw


        • #5
          Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

          I love having diverse elements in my platoons when I run them. My only thing with mixing and matching (though its usually only with harasser squads) is that sometimes they will go off on their own in which case to me seems a waste. Why have a squad that won't stay with the platoon and support them? I know I was leading a defense the other night and Al was there and I couldn't get our harasser squad to stick with the group and help us when we definitely could have used the support. Other than this occasional problem I think having mixed air/armor and Infantry elements is amazing and unless you are fighting an organized platoon the enemy will arm themselves against one or the other and not be very effective one way or the other. I'm also of the opinion that TG should always be at the front like we were that night at the alamo and Emale mentioned that alpha was right at the front line. I think that had it not been for us holding that key chock point and leading the defense there then (especially Emale with his smoke grenades) that fight would not have lasted as long as it did or have anywhere near the positive outcome that it did for us.


          • #6
            Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

            I can only assume certain things from your statements and I hate to assume anything. But either you didn't understand the role that the harrasser squad plays or they didn't realize the situation you were in. Harrassers are by their very nature, fast and perfectly suited to address any armor threat you may face. In a narrow choking venue they are not suited except as stationary firing platforms and like any stationary firing platform they will be taken out very quickly. Not a situation anyone likes to face. So they roam in order to remain mobile and continuously looking for any mobile threat.

            I will be the first to admit that not every Harrasser squad you have assembled will adhere to the overall vision I see and have establish for myself or the people that either I gun for or I drive for, but that being said the majority of harrassers squad I have been in do.

            Will we stay with the main grouping of the platoon? No! That's not our role unless the platoon is addressing rolling columns of armor. The harrasser squad is your front line of defense against armor, they can't be front line if they are by your side all the time. I have told Randy this, when your in a harrasser "if your not smoking your not close enuff to the front line", that is the role of the harrasser. I can and have taken out a squad of enemy as a sniper, shooting the people that are shooting you and the others on the base and never been within render distance of the platoon. Was I helping the platoon? In my mind I helped to secure the point and protect the platoon by taking out the enemy that was taking out members of the platoon.

            You almost have to consider the Harrassers and snipers as your shadow squads, addressing the enemy in a method so you don't have to address them. If and when that enemy armor starts to contest you on the point, then you have to question the harrasser squads effectiveness because they aren't doing their job. But if you don't see the glint of armor, if you don't feel the concussion of a shell landing near you then the harrasser squad has done it's job.

            As I have said before, Run and Gun with a Harrasser squad before you pass judgement, in a proper Harrasser squad the coms are alive with the information passed between us. Pointing out locations, size of artillery, number of armor, types of artillery, engagements, calls of help, pointing out smokers, indicating chasers and the list goes on. Much more active than you get on regular coms and that doesn't take into account the information that goes on in proxy between the driver and the gunner. And to be honest not once while in a Harrasser squad (and I have been in quite a few) have I ever heard anyone in coms question what the rest of the platoon was doing, but that is probably due to the fact that we were just to damn busy taking out armor to concern ourself about it.

            That said, I personally want to thank you for stepping up and leading. It's not that I want to do, nor is it anything that interest me, but I certainly am willing to appreciate those that do.


            • #7
              Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

              I think a good role of thumb for pl-ing with a harasser squad could be:

              Never ask them to go some place for you. Ask them if they can destroy something for you.

              Yesterday I was with a mostly small single infantry squad. We would take a few pot shots at distant armor... With no real chance of actually killing them.

              Then we suddenly see one of our harasser squad come in behind him.. One shot - boom.

              This happened regularly throughout the night. I can only imagine how tough it must have been for the enemies trying to attack us; dealing with our lock-ons and AT turrets, AND harassers being able to appear anywhere they want to retreat for repairs.


              • #8
                Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

                I absolutely agree that they can't just stay in one spot because you mine as well buy vanguards at that point for the armor but I was trying to point out spots with good amounts of armor. The TR and the Vanu were fighting the next map section over and the fight was bleeding over onto our position so I gave them a way to strike in right behind the fight and get some action on ground favorable to them and by extension help our position. I guess a little bit more info would help. The squad when I kept looking was spread out with one harasser in pretty much each corner of the continent and were fight several sections over from us. I guess I just find it hard to see how that was a help to me that night. Idk if this was an isolated incident or not that was just my experience with them is all. I think they're fun to be in though because I've done it several times when its just harasser squads. I'm not trying to hate on harasser squads by any means I was just trying to point out my experience with trying to enfold them into a platoon and use them in a way to support the overall goal without compromising their structure and integrity as a squad. Anyway lol that was all I was trying to say they are great squads to be in I guess I just have a hard time envisioning the best way to utilize them.


                • #9
                  Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

                  Like an air squad, Harassers need a reasonable amount of autonomy from the main force. Our fight is not stationary, we seek and destroy. That's why you'll rarely see a Harasser squad in close concert with the infantry and fire support. In fact, if you do see us there with you, we're doing our jobs wrong. The Harasser isn't suited to the front line. It's a little less durable than a Lightning, and mounts less effective support weaponry, while taking up twice the number of squad members. The deadliness of the Harasser comes from its extreme mobility and ability to fire effectively on the move due to its driver-gunner setup.

                  Keep in mind that our Harassers are, by and large, set up for an anti-armour role. We can provide a small amount of supplementary fire support against infantry, but an entire Harasser squad can't kill infantry as well as a pair of HE Lightnings. We can't help you fin the infantry fight. What we can do is deny the enemy any and all ground vehicle assets within your AO.

                  As a PL with a harasser squad, there's only really two things you need to worry about. 1) Set an area of operations and 2) Call and spot vehicle targets as you see them.

                  In the absence of orders, we will set our own local AO and targets. Remember that due to our extreme mobility, we often have a better sense of the tactical situation than leaders embedded with infantry, unless they are also in command comms. Rest assured, if you're not sure what we're doing, we're making sure that there is one less Sunderer to deploy troops at your position, one less Prowler to anchor overwatching you, one less Harasser to drive by with a grenade launcher.

                  Edit: Didn't see your post pop up before I posted. It sounds like, and I'm hoping this is the case - that it was just a communication breakdown. We've got a lot of squad comms chatter calling out targets, and a lot of either proximity/mumble/teamspeak chat between drivers and gunners. It's possible your orders were missed. It's also possible that we weren't able to operate there due to a Lancer/Striker nest, or excessive enemy air.

                  If we were out of line, don't be afraid to yell at us. I don't believe any of us would intentionally disregard a given order, but if we do, we're TG and we should know better. Don't be afraid to remind us of that.
                  Teamwork and Tactics are OP

                  Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".


                  • #10
                    Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

                    I think I better understand the position you were in Jgn. I wasn't there so I can't say with any certainty but it didn't sound like you had the 'Harrasser Regulars' (or 'Rat Patrol' as I like to call them) there. As Strait said we like to patrol the area and take out enemy assets, yes we will dart back to the objective to get the points/certs because we like to buy stuff to make our Harrassers better/more nimble/faster/stronger/blingier. Personally I've adopted the black camo for mine because I'm not trying to fade into the background, to me it doesn't matter because as soon as they see me they're dead anyway. And if there is more armor than one then the others can focus on me (because I stand out on Esamir) and be taken out by the other guys in the Rat Patrol.

                    Again thank you for stepping up, we will watch your back and hopefully make the campaign smoother for you. If we don't then like Strait said call us down on it.

                    P.S. Hopefully if we can set up a proper speciality Harrasser squad, we will be able to help with infantry as well since there are many guns available to us that can handle infantry or ESF very effectively. But time will tell.


                    • #11
                      Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

                      I'd love to see things happen with those squads because the diversity of the harasser is unparalleled by any other vehicle. Also like you said It was probably miss communication. It was my one experience mixing the two so I haven't reserved all judgement lol. I'm also still relatively new to leading platoons with you guys so that could be a factor as well but either way the feedback has been great.


                      • #12
                        Re: Thursday night capture of Esamir and Indar alert win.

                        Harrasers are just like air they have to pick there battles and are very effective for the battles they pick. Armor destruction :) With armor comes Sunderers :)

                        You want to work with harrasers? Get in TS with the SL. Putting up targets is very important. As a PL if you notice the west side of a base is quite without friendly activity you need to know why and the only safest quickest way is to send in the Harrasers to points you can't see. Think of the Harraser as an infiltrating vehicle to give you the full layout of whats to come so you can make the decision to call in the air/infantry.

                        As far as the squad wanting to run on its own because asked to do something totally different is now normal for this game just no whineing if you don't have command. I have even heard you Al said you would quit if asked to stop flying your Lib in PL comms. If this rubs your face don't let it its just what we do.

                        Get in TS with just the SL and I bet you can accomplish much more then ingame comms with any group running any special interest.

                        These problems can only be addressed by the leadership we have. Take note and work together the best you can. TS squad leaders and you will clear the area much faster and safer.:)

                        FUN FUN




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