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"Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

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  • [AAR] "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

    Considering the work that goes into them, no FNF should go without an AAR.

    I did not take notes, so the following will be brief.

    Randy did a fine job as FNF commander. If anyone thinks there is not much to the NC Coalition they should spend some time in the NCC TS channel, as I did last night so I could observe the high-level inter-group/Outfit cooperation as part of my ethnographic study of military FPS. Randy provides the TG Outfit with an excellent representative to the NCC and did much to direct the collective strategic action last night.

    The NCC and TG failed to make any permanent gains during the drawn out Alert on Amerish. This was largely due to the larger enemy force (TR?) than any specific tactical failing on Randy or the NCC behalf. I see no point in second guessing Randy's tactical decisions as I doubt that there was any possible remedy to the simple fact of a larger enemy force.

    Platoon-level comms throughout the evening were clean and well executed.

    My SL, Steelscion, did an excellent and professional job of squad leading and made the evening a pleasurable experience.

    Feeling a cold coming on I signed off around 11 pm EST and then had a dream that involved zombies and a MAX.
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

    First and foremost, thanks to all SLs as well as Randy for PLing and working with the NCC. Indeed, well done everyone for keeping at it despite lots of hard fights throughout the night.

    I know that Steel had issues getting the squad waypoint to work and made the best of it. For the most part we were together, tending to provide overwatch, as well as a nice bit of flanking when the NCC finally all got together and hit the same base.


    As for populations, I checked that from time to time: VS had about 10%-15% on Amerish and the rest was split pretty evenly between TR and NC. My thoughts are that NC try too hard to be exact about the amount of forces needed for each fight, which doesn't work so well in a game where logistics are extremely light. The enemy can simply reinforce in overwhelming numbers and secure the base so quickly they have time to get back to another defense or offensive push.

    I would make a case that the NCC should attempt to copy VS and TR on surge defenses and spend less time thinking about gains until a clear opportunity arises.


    Once we moved to Esamir we ended up attacking a VS held bio-lab with pops at pretty much 50/50. The odd NC outfit seemed to come and go during about two(?) hours of heavy fighting, after which we gave up as we simply couldn't take it. The design of bio-labs certainly doesn't leave us with many tactical options and there's not a lot we could've done against such an entrenched enemy.

    Still, what is the obsession people have with the Air pads? Given that we had two adjacent territories, there were only four ways into the bio-lab and, for the most part, it seemed like we were just making things harder for ourselves by not really using two of them. I wasn't in NCC to hear what the other outfits were doing but I did go through the teleporters now and then just to confirm that they were pretty much being ignored - which they were whenever I looked.

    When we finally did use the teleporter nearest the shield generator it repeatedly yielded results, as we managed to destroy the gen and secure the surrounding rooms. Although we never quite made it to the SCU and would eventually get wiped and have to rush the shield generator all over again.

    Whenever you can't break a bio-lab defense in a particular spot, switch your entry of attack. Either they're focused where you were before and you go unopposed, or they're watching all the entries and your forces can overwhelm them in a single place.
    Last edited by MrJengles; 09-14-2013, 04:05 PM.



    |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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    • #3
      Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

      Originally posted by MrJengles View Post
      Whenever you can't break a bio-lab defense in a particular spot, switch your entry of attack. Either they're focused where you were before and you go unopposed, or they're watching all the entries and your forces can overwhelm them in a single place.
      I think the problem with biolabs is that there is a critical mass population point where the defenders can watch every entry point and respond to breaches within a minute or two. VS at Mani was able to lock down almost every firing lane with multiple MANA turrets, MAXes, and the support infantry to back them up. They controlled left and right approaches to both pads, the two perpendicular lanes between A and B, they had an LA gunner's nest above the SCU, and they could move a quick reaction force into the bridge area between B and C whenever we got a toehold there.

      Great fight all around, but at that pop level, tie goes to the defender. NC would do well to study those tactics - I feel like we shy away from stationary defensive positions and like to run around watching 3 points at once.
      In game handle: Steel Scion
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

        E-Male, thanks for the kind words. It was good to see you in NCC, and sounds like it was an illuminating experience for you as well. Please feel free to stop in more often, even if you are just listening in. :)

        I had intended to write an AAR, just hadn't had a chance yet, so thanks for getting this started.

        I did not take any notes either, nor did I closely direct the various squads' actions, as I was more occupied with the "macro" strategy and working with NCC than with the "micro" strategy of directing each squad. So instead of a breakdown of specific battles from a tactical standpoint, I will report on my experience from the perspective of PL and working with NCC on a strategic level.

        When we are doing (usually large) combined ops with NCC, PLing becomes quite a different game than even regular PLing (which is in turn different from regular SLing and being a squad member). Because of the numbers of troops involved under our combined command (many platoons), the theater of operations often becomes an entire continent. NCC usually meets up before ops begin in order to decide on a strategy for the evening, and how to go about that. For this night, due to pop and other considerations, we decided to all fight on Amerish.

        Those who participated remember a long night of tough fights. As Jengles astutely points out, we were trying to meet the TR (who I seem to recall, outnumbered us) on all fronts (and failing in many cases). I won't get into the details of that but just understand because NC have about equal pop to TR, all of those people are not necessarily in outfits that belong to NCC (or certain outfits that are may simply not be participating for whatever reason, as we at TG even elect to do from time to time). But we try and do the best we can and work together to best deploy whatever resources we have available.

        There was one bright point in the evening that I would like to recall however. After a couple (few?) hours of getting our butts kicked around the map by surge reinforcing TR, I think everyone was feeling pretty sad. lol At this point I think I said something like "we are outpopped badly by TR and getting roflstomped all over the place, but I'm not sure what to do about it, any ideas?" At which point MindKill suggested "how about the NCC all get together and just hit one place?" which I thought sounded like a great idea. So I floated the idea in NCC, and everyone else (who had been in the same sorts of tough, outnumbered fights as us) all agreed it would be fun as well as good for the morale of the troops.

        So we all redeployed back to the warp gate (all Outfits) and loaded up in Gals. I cannot recall the last time I have seen that many Gals in our warpgate, certainly not in recent months since overall server pop seems to be down. Some even commented in local /yell that they had never seen NC this organized. lol Actually, little do most people actually know how organized we are and how well we can do when we have a good number of outfits participating in operations (and I believe I typed something back to the guy in /yell to that effect).

        By the way, I thought I heard E-Male (and/or perhaps others, ghostshooter maybe?) mention that they were rolling tape at that time. If you have any footage of that, please post it up.

        We took a base or two in dramatic, overwhelming fashion, that was probably the highlight of the night. So, credit again to MK for the great idea. And thanks again to all SLs who did a great job managing the details on the micro level.

        After that, we got involved in an assault of that northern Bio Lab as has been discussed above. I know some of you don't like Bio Lab fights, and it probably would not have been my first choice either, but sometimes I feel it is important to go along with what some of the other leaders in NCC think we should do. Along this line of reasoning, I will also answer other outfits' calls for assistance whenever practical. I feel it is not only fun to do so, but raises morale of the troops (whether you are playing the role of rescuer or rescuee) as well as building good give and take relationships with the other outfits and their leaders (in case you were wondering, this I feel is why I can usually be successful in calling for NCC reinforcements to come to our aid).

        Well, I suppose those were the points I wanted to make from the broad, strategic perspective.

        Finally, I encourage any of our Outfit NCOs, Officers, and even frequent, regular players to hop into NCC and see what goes on in there. Don't be intimidated, or feel like you need to be able to command all of the combined NC forces in order to participate. lol It is true that many times I am one of the leaders in the discussion in there but that's because I have built up those relationships (as previously mentioned), at this point I am a pretty experienced commander at that level, as well as the fact that my tactics are sound and stand on their own merits. But you could just as easily hang in there and just listen and you would at least know where other outfits on your continent were operating. Or you can do small scale coordination with another outfit (that's how I started out).

        Anyone interested in becoming more involved in NCC, please just ask me. I can give you the server info, and/or I would be happy to make introductions.
        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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        • #5
          Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

          Originally posted by MrJengles View Post
          Still, what is the obsession people have with the Air pads?
          To be clear, this was not wholly directed at TG. It is my experience that many blueberries insist on using a camped air pad until they are pushed back and/or the Sundy at the bottom dies. Meanwhile, organised outfits prefer teleporters as they place you much closer to your objective, from a safer distance (you can organise an entire platoon or more to go through at once) and the enemy can't sit at every available angle because you can shoot out. Either way, switching entrances now and then can still help. I was just surprised as we normally alternate fairly well.

          Originally posted by Steeler View Post
          I think the problem with biolabs is that there is a critical mass population point where the defenders can watch every entry point and respond to breaches within a minute or two. VS at Mani was able to lock down almost every firing lane with multiple MANA turrets, MAXes, and the support infantry to back them up. They controlled left and right approaches to both pads, the two perpendicular lanes between A and B, they had an LA gunner's nest above the SCU, and they could move a quick reaction force into the bridge area between B and C whenever we got a toehold there.

          Great fight all around, but at that pop level, tie goes to the defender. NC would do well to study those tactics - I feel like we shy away from stationary defensive positions and like to run around watching 3 points at once.
          Oh I agree, but at least we made it inside once we focused everyone through the same teleporter.

          Nice NCC coordination there actually. A (CML?) Light Assault team went in 15 seconds before everyone else to clear the rooftops and teamwork was great once inside.



          |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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          • #6
            Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

            Watching all those NCC Galaxies move out was pretty epic - a great PS2 moment.

            Also, earlier when it was just our platoon using Gals, Randy got lost and flew towards the TR Warpgate :row__577:


            With regards to populations, although I didn't pay as much attention to it, I did also note we were outnumbered in a few territories. The reason I bring it up is that if people start broadcasting that TR are overpopped, plenty of TR will open their maps, check the continent levels and then decide you are a sore loser and it's the NC's fault for not putting numbers in the right places. If the problem is the territory population, please specify that or it reflects badly on all of us. Even then, be careful about the way it's pointed out.


            I'm glad you remarked that you were focusing on NCC strategy Randy (quite rightly too, and I'm sure you did very well), but I think it left the squads with a lack of direction and inter-cooperation whenever we reached our destination. Suddenly, each squad realised they needed to know which point to go to and tried to go wherever the others weren't. This can be done on a SL level but still requires advance planning.

            Personally, I like to operate under the assumption that the PL and SLs will work together to decide tactics, with final decision to the PL. However, a lot of SLs do not wish to step on the toes of a higher-up and, even if they were all to contribute, you would be left with little time to listen to details, decide and confirm or deny.


            As a particular example, when we did reach whichever tower is North-East of the Southern Warpgate, the squads all worked out positions at the last moment, as they dropped. My squad took an outside objective, then moved to the vehicle bay as we'd initially been designated an armor squad. Instead of pulling a vehicle however, I ran up the stairs because I saw point A flipping and thought it was probably just one guy.

            It turns out the TR had surge reinforced the previously empty base and whichever squad had taken A was nowhere to be seen. I managed to get up to A, die, respawn at the Sundy and begin running towards the tower before I heard a single call over either squad or platoon VOIP about our predicament (even if I had a mic I shouldn't use platoon as a SM), and that was to say our Sundy was being overrun. Way too late.


            NCC comms seems to take too much focus for it to overlap with any other important duty - there needs to be someone who takes command in the mean time. You could designate a SL as second in command but he'd be left without platoon waypoints and constantly overruled by the strategic plan. Personally, I think the PL should always command the squads and the person in NCC Teamspeak would be better off being a dedicated communications man (thank you Emale) that simply relays the important parts of the discussion. This comms man would constantly switch between NCC Teamspeak and our Command Channel in TS.

            From my own experience during multi-platoon ops, making sure SLs are in the Command Channel would also speed up orders as they would hear information at the same time as the PL. Though this should be standard practice in any case.



            |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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            • #7
              Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

              When I've PLed and been in NCC comms, I've found it to be fairly manageable to handle both without leaving the squads short on orders. It's analogous to how an SL is managing platoon and squad comms/orders simultaneously. However, I haven't been involved in major grand strategy at the NCC level, just basic information gathering and responding to requests. If you're managing grand strategy I imagine the comm/cognitive load might increase to the extent of needing a radioman or XO to divide the duties.

              I'd say that either preclude squad leading/on-foot combat duties, though. If you're SLing, PLing and dealing with comms outside the platoon, you're DEFINITELY doing too much at one time, and I'd even argue that a platoon lead should never be running a squad (and probably shouldn't be in the thick of it either!). Personally, I try not to lead even two squads as a platoon leader without finding a squad leader for the squad I used to be running, because I simply can't be doing my platoon leading jobs as well as I should if I'm also managing the moment to moment details of running a squad. Instead of doing one thing well I tend to find myself doing two things poorly.



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              • #8
                Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

                Good points Jengles. In this particular alert I found myself as the sort of ranking guy in there, directing most of the action. Usually though there are a couple other guys who are a little higher in the pecking order than myself, and then I usually follow their lead (because I agree with their strategy and/or have worked with them enough to trust their judgement). If the former case arises again, perhaps I should me more clear about telling the SLs to be more proactive in coordinating with one another. Or maybe just take those few moments to do the minimum division of labor (A to A, B to B, or whatever).

                Sometimes I don't like the idea of a 2IC or radioman and here is why. I have played the role of radioman to NCC several times, but I am hamstrung a bit because I am not actually in command of our forces. Therefore all I can really do is relay where the other outfits are to the PL and hope that he agrees that we should move our forces where I say (or where NCC has agreed we should go). A little time is spent some times discussing the strategic level plan in NCC and discussing or discounting alternative plans. Some people take some convincing. Then I have to potentially have that discussion all over again with our PL, and get him on board as to why we should move our troops here or there. Also, I cannot instantly confirm to the rest of NCC that we will be moving on a certain objective, as I have to discuss/confirm it with our PL first. Some times timing is everything (especially with surge reinforcing, etc.) and the time it takes to relay everything back and forth can take too long.

                However, in other cases, it can work out beautifully, as it does have the advantages you state. One of my first experiences in NCC was working with NC10 back when they were a huge outfit. They were running 2-3 platoons, we at the time were only running 2 squads. They assigned a radioman to NCC as a liaison to me and I was very impressed with their professionalism and how everything worked out. But in that case we were clearly a much smaller force, so we would take side objectives while their main force would go for the big bases (this was back when adjacency affected cap times). Therefore there was not a lot of discussion, as we were just lightly coordinating who was going where, based on our relative sizes. But nowadays, we are commanding usually a platoon (+/-) size force, which makes us one of the "big boys" at the table, and therefore also usually with an equal say in planning. But anyway, yeah there are advantages and I am happy to play the role of radioman, as long as I can work with a PL who has some experience with the NCC, believes in it, and is willing to actually change the direction of our forces should we be called upon to do so.

                An idea just came to me. If I find myself in that position again, assign an XO to be acting PL, pass him PL so he can have the markers, let him stay with the troops on the ground (or near the battle at a good vantage) and direct the squads in the local objective. So instead of radioman and subordinate to the PL, I would be PL and the assigned PL would be like an XO. That would probably work. Otherwise, I would have to as I said be working with a PL who was willing to go along with the NCCs grand plan (and potentially redirect our troops if called upon).
                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                • #9
                  Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

                  While I personally feel SLs should self-coordinate more, that still requires someone who can decide when there are differing opinions.

                  Besides, I don't mean for SLs to do it all the time and to replace the PL - only to create an environment where they can comfortably suggest something, as a quick reaction to the ever-changing game, that the PL merely need oversee. He can always intervene if he disagrees, otherwise it speeds up and improves the collective response.


                  Huh, I think when I wrote that I had not entirely decided for myself whether I'd prefer a true radioman or a commander. You've thoroughly convinced me on the latter Randy and I'd love to see it attempted.



                  |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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                  • #10
                    Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

                    So this is the footage I got (sorry im late with posting it)
                    No editing was done, sorry for the black screens it was a rendering issue, Enjoy!

                    oh and watch in HD!

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                    • #11
                      Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

                      Video is private, cannot view



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                      • #12
                        Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

                        it should be up now

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                        • #13
                          Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

                          Nice video ghost, thanks for posting.

                          Guys who are new to the game, notice how ghost plays once he respawns as a HA, it's textbook good infantry. Note how he does the following:
                          * notices how no one is covering the back doors to C (the catwalks) and goes there and covers them himself
                          * watch how he "slices the pie" while covering these doors; textbook
                          * reloads when he has time, and often, instead of waiting to run out of ammo (SAW short reload shorter than long reload time)
                          * moves from entry to entry, looking for holes in the defense to plug
                          * good use of cover, backing behind it to let his shield recharge
                          * good use of grenade vs. clump of enemy troops and missiles vs. Maxes and clumps of enemy troops
                          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                          • #14
                            Re: "Friday the 13th" Friday Night Fights

                            As frustrating as it was at the time... that was a pretty awesome fight in retrospect.



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