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FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

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  • [AAR] FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

    Thanks to everyone who joined the VR Air Practice and Live fire air squad part of this weeks Pre FnF Gather.

    Welcome to Friday Night Fight:


    And Thank you all for joining:


    Todd? over 13 users in the Team speak channel:

    (6..~)Z Z z z....

  • #2
    Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

    I hope someone recorded my speech, i derped up and forgot to hit record lol

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

      Another five hours of truly hectic squad leading. WOOOOOooooooooo... *trails off incoherently*



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

        As always epic. Is there someplace on the forum that's feedback/ debrief oriented (so as to be more kickass), other than here I guess?

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        • #5
          Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

          That's what an AAR is for!



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          • #6
            Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

            Yes, anyone who participated on Friday Pre FnF and during it can and is encouraged to comment on the night.

            AAR - After action report is for everyone.

            Normally one of the leader would start it off, but because its valentines day....shh Ill say no more :)

            The Pre FnF Gather started in the VR:
            • Having everyone pulling a reaver and trying to keep it in the sky
            • The following a way point.
            • Landing on the ground
            • Landing reloading on the supply area.
            • Follow the leader one of the more experienced on point, then the least experienced.
            • Target way point: lead reaver would find a target SL would drop a way point, following reavers would strike the target
            • Find - Fire - Retreat
            • Areas to hold before striking


            When the squad was happy with the basics, we moved onto continent with life fire operations.

            This was not training, just practice, everyone in the squad had a chance at any time to call a target and take ownership of the target:

            Only 1 target or target area at one time:
            • Find the target, Call it out, have it marked or call location, monitor the target and update as needed.
            • SL orders the other members of the squad to engage.
            • The target finder would confirm downed target with the squad or extra danger in the area.
            • SL would call retreat/rearm/repair or continue based of squads information.


            The squad started to swap out to armour due to too much anti air, as each air unit died they requested what to pull and regrouped with the main squad.

            I passed Bravo lead to [MENTION=47162]Blackjack[/MENTION]son and DoT held Alpha and PL

            The platoon started to fill its ranks to include all four squads ALPHA, BRAVO, CHALIE and DELTA
            We finished the alert and Handed the Platoon over to [MENTION=56436]ghostshooter101[/MENTION] to start the Friday Nigth Fight.

            (6..~)Z Z z z....

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

              I couldn't make it.

              Sounds like some great Air practice! I especially like getting each squad member used to calling targets properly and confirming kills.



              |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                --Thoughts on the Air Gather Squad. (Pre-FNF/#vts)--

                I joined as #vts moved the air squad to Amerish to begin the live-fire exercise. The initial concept was basic (everyone in Reavers, majority of players in Air-to-Ground configuration). This concept worked well (Spotting, gathering in safe areas and combined gun-runs were effective) and was improved with the addition of other air vehicles (a Battle-Galaxy and a Shredder-Liberator).

                While not so effective against infantry (they are harder to spot) the air squad was very effective against vehicles. Gun-runs combined with high-altitude fire would baffle vehicle drivers, forcing them to run or die (mostly die). Over time the enemy wised up and soon every AA turret was banging away and dedicated AA squads popped up a high population zones. At this time the air squad transitioned to a vehicle/”follow the zerg” platoon while waiting for FNF to start and command of BRAVO was handed over to me. The platoon (ALPHA and BRAVO squads) redeployed as an air-dropped infantry squad.

                TL_DR-Command and control was efficient. The combination of air-vehicles was very effective against ground vehicles and good for driving off roving enemy air vehicles. Only combined efforts of multiple enemy squads forced us to restructure as a ground platoon.

                --Thoughts on the Infantry Squad/Platoon. (Pre-FNF/#DaddyOfThree)--

                The infantry platoon was used as precision tool to try and hold key areas of contested bases (mostly capture-points and nearby buildings). While effective with blueberry support, without it the squads would be defeated in detail. Several times squads attempted to flank around bases (either to get new field of fire on enemy spawn locations or to provide AV support against harassing vehicles). While effective for a time, the flanking squad would eventually be squashed a combination of infantry, maneuverable vehicles and sniper fire.

                TL_DR-Flanking is effective for a time, but without support the flanking forces will be cut off and defeated in detail.

                --Thoughts on the Infantry Squad/Platoon. (FNF/#ghostshooter101)--

                Once FNF was officially started command of the TG Platoon (ALPHA, BRAVO, CHARLIE, and DELTA) was handed over to #ghostshooter101. I stepped down as BRAVO squad leader and resumed my role as a grunt. The Platoon was shifted over to Esamir and began a campaign at Andvari Frozen Reservoir.

                At this point the fighting became a slugging match. The TG Platoon was completely filled and was fighting another similar sized VS/TG force (composed of several infantry squads and accompanied armor support). The fight was a giant see-saw event, as one force would deploy or drop on the point and the other would respond in kind.

                The VS made good use of flanking and would consistently blunt any force we could put together. We tried several times to establish bases of AV fire on their flanks, but these forces were spread out and in time would be rendered combat ineffective by snipers, the destruction of friendly spawn points, long-rang bombardment aircraft and finally attacks by Harassers and Magriders. It was at this point I logged off.

                TL_DR-We initially had success (captured Andvari Frozen Reservoir). Then the fight devolved into a massive infantry slugging match.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                  I think something that would help against "slugging matches" and the like would be keeping an agile mind. I know that while squad leading in general it's easy to get tunnel vision, trying to keep track of your people, the enemy and such. Would it be advantageous to try something the enemy wouldn't expect? What different angle could this be attacked from. I love the teamwork and coordination in this outfit, so I would just like to see what we can do with that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                    Originally posted by KlausWolf View Post
                    I think something that would help against "slugging matches" and the like would be keeping an agile mind. I know that while squad leading in general it's easy to get tunnel vision, trying to keep track of your people, the enemy and such. Would it be advantageous to try something the enemy wouldn't expect? What different angle could this be attacked from. I love the teamwork and coordination in this outfit, so I would just like to see what we can do with that.
                    That's the idea, but there's a huge gulf between idea and execution. Once you're stuck in a slugging match it's very hard to extricate from it, and getting people into the spot they "don't expect" requires a lot of forethought and coordination, or at the very least some responsive maneuvering! Most of the time I have a very hard time keeping my squad organized and coordinated for the purposes of the slugging matches, which limits the mental bandwidth you need to stay fluid.

                    Now, obviously, that's bad. Once you're locked into the slugfest mindset (or worse yet, physically entrenched into it) you're now very predictable and equal/superior forces will inevitably find the chink in your armour and tear you down. A great example is our point holds. We lock ourselves into static positions and hold our doors at first (it is, after all, something we excel at), but eventually we get hit by a coordinated breach, or someone hits us in the back with an LA, or something or other that throws a gear into our well oiled machine, and the whole thing collapses.

                    I think part of the puzzle of getting that fluidity back without losing command and control of the squad is fireteams. With 2-3 other people to worry about the details of individual players, the SL frees up a lot of mental bandwidth, and can easily, for instance, send one fireteam to outflank the enemy and disrupt them before they can build up to a proper breach.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                      Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
                      That's the idea, but there's a huge gulf between idea and execution. Once you're stuck in a slugging match it's very hard to extricate from it . . . Most of the time I have a very hard time keeping my squad organized and coordinated for the purposes of the slugging matches, which limits the mental bandwidth you need to stay fluid.
                      I would argue maneuver in the face of fire requires tight discipline. I agree keeping the squad cohesive in a slugging match is tough, but only tough if your squad lacks tight discipline. An undisciplined squad goes combat crazy and keeps shooting the closest thing they see as soon as they engage. An organized squad will maneuver or break contact when ordered to. (I may sound like a broken record here. You could ask "Garthra how do you make a scrambled egg?" and I would say "with tighter discipline." :-] )



                      Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
                      Now, obviously, that's bad. Once you're locked into the slugfest mindset (or worse yet, physically entrenched into it) you're now very predictable and equal/superior forces will inevitably find the chink in your armour and tear you down. A great example is our point holds. We lock ourselves into static positions and hold our doors at first (it is, after all, something we excel at), but eventually we get hit by a coordinated breach, or someone hits us in the back with an LA, or something or other that throws a gear into our well oiled machine, and the whole thing collapses.
                      You are not alone in this viewpoint I know several people think our point holds are too static, and therefore flawed. As you could predict, I disagree that static is bad. Think about when our point hold's fall. They often fall when we are facing 2 to 1 numbers. Furthermore the 2 enemies against our 1 have a faster respawn rate than we do. I don't call that a defensive failure that needs a change in strategic thinking, I call that a success.
                      The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                        Good point Garthra.

                        EDIT: My post began a discussion of a static "triple" point hold, which I thought best to split off into it's own thread for further discussion:

                        http://www.tacticalgamer.com/planets...se-triple.html
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                        • #13
                          Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                          You're absolutely right, Garthra, tight discipline is the only thing that enables decisive movement. What I mean, though, is that an SL I often find that once I've hit sustained heavy contact I stop having the mental bandwidth to know when and where to move--the open field MAX AV squad I ran a couple days ago is a great example--as it's all spent trying to keep situational awareness up and call contacts. This is often paired with the squad being suppressed to some degree; maybe we've got people down who need to be rezzed before we can move, or maybe there are Harassers driving all over us, or a Liberator taking potshots. Under those circumstances I find it difficult to make the call to move, even when disengaging and repositioning is the right call.

                          As for the point holds, I feel that any tactic that has a guaranteed failure is self-evidently flawed! It's not a failure of the tactic, but it IS a failure of strategy. "They outnumber us with better spawns" isn't an excuse, it means that we're employing a tactic made to dominate a more even fight in a situation it's not meant to handle. Against larger numbers we need something else; as effective as our point holds are, they WILL crumble against a larger force that's built up critical mass for a breach. Sometimes buying time is enough, but so often it is not.

                          I'm not sure what the answer is, but I've got a few ideas. We usually need a full squad for the point hold itself just to cover all the possible entries, but if we've got another squad or can spare a couple individuals to run interference there's some more stuff we can do. One option, for instance, is a static hold somewhere else where it can distract or block the advancing enemy (more of the same, but crossfire and having a freely maneuverable element can change the situation a lot). We can have harassment elements that are made to engage in a hit and run fashion to compliment the static defense (heck, that can be aircraft). There's also the possibility of shifting away from point defense to proactive defense where we hold the line some distance away from the point and then fall back and give ground when the enemy rallies to push us instead of holding one static position and either holding or shattering, bend with the wind, etc.



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                          • #14
                            Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                            I like the idea of having a larger first line of defense around a point. If it's outdoors and there's no air, I think we could stack our lines of defense so it's not an all or nothing situation. As Gartha said our static point holds(though could be improoved) are very effective, so we would have that plan to fall back on, as long aswe got to the indoor positions in time. Is there any news as to the fireteam update or whatever that was? I think it would be cool to experiment with point defense, even if what we try may seem rediculous.

                            Static point hold pros:
                            Solid, pre-established defense
                            Familiarity with enviroment
                            Rez grenades tend to be more effective indoors
                            Minimal risk of being flanked
                            Cons:
                            Backs are against the wall from the start
                            Once one section collapses it's over
                            Prone to MAX crash

                            Extended perimeter hold pros:
                            Reaction time to any threat(distance=time=saftey)
                            More opportunities to shoot the enemy
                            Stacked firepower

                            Cons:
                            May require air/armor support
                            Greater risk of being flanked
                            Potentially exposed to enemy snipers/air
                            Would require spawn logistics in a retreat
                            May require a lot of people depending on the fight

                            Thoughts? Also, to help with static defense, maybe having a light assault up in a tree or a tower spotting targets as the approach/advising as to max crashes? And in the extended parimeter having flank spotters in general. Worth while use of man power?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: FNF 13 Feb 2015 Friday Night Fight

                              A good summary. Broadly speaking, I feel defense works best when you've got ground to fall back on and maneuver with. Sometimes the enemy presents you with a threat that's best met by giving ground or turning it aside and dealing with it less directly than meeting it head on.

                              As for a spotter, I'm leaning more towards infiltrators for that job. They're well equipped for running interference and the recon tools give most of the intel you could want. Additionally, they're less likely to get shot.

                              I've been running as an infiltrator more often lately and I often find myself operating as a loosely attached element of the squad, doing recon, flanking, harassment, and designated marksman roles as the situation calls for it. In point holds, I can run around on the outside, call out when the enemy is stacking on doors, and ping them really hard in the side of the head while they're not expecting it.



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