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AAR for FnF 10/9/15

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  • [AAR] AAR for FnF 10/9/15

    AAR Notes on 10/9/2015

    GeneralCain Platoon Leader:
    - Goal of capturing up to QUartz Ridge was achieved.
    - Generally good work.
    - Plus: Platoon did stay organized,
    - Negative: GeneralCain was too verbose/longwinded.



    Starstriker: Alpha Lead

    - Early on: We overreached a bit on Hossin.
    - We needed reinforcements a few minutes before they became available. We need to get better at this; anticipate our needs and get logistics setup before time, not three minutes late.



    TheFatz: Bravo Lead
    - We were effective in squad coordination
    - Several times our guys didn't repsawn as ordered because they successfully killed the guys that would have wiped us.


    RandyShugart: Charlie Lead

    - Negatives:Things were going fast in command channel, and I may have volunteered us too quickly.
    Negatives: There was some misbehavior. Most guys were good, but it does not take many to spoil it.

    Garthra:
    When I was leading on Hossin squad was generally good. We had ome combined attack with VCO from gal drops and TG pushing on the ground. It was hard but we got the point. Felt like a good coordinated success.

    Bluegamer: Strategy idea: Full squad of light assaults as an alternative strategy.

    RandyShughart:
    Command comms were very verbose tonight.

    AdmiralAwesomes: One thing I learned from VCO, they play reactionary, a lot of redeploying. Every two minutes you are redeploying. They are always reacting. We need to try something new, (be proactive).
    -Starstriker voiced agreement with this.
    The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

  • #2
    Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

    Was this a planned joint op between TG and VCO or were we working along side each other part of the time?

    Either way, how well did it run?

    Sorry, was not able to attend FnF

    (6..~)Z Z z z....

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15


      Starstriker: Alpha Lead

      - We needed reinforcements a few minutes before they became available. We need to get better at this; anticipate our needs and get logistics setup before time, not three minutes late.
      We're always available on TS for just such a need. Let us know at least 10 minutes or so before an attack and we can place a deploy shield sunderer as the primary spawn option and a cloaking one as backup.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

        10 minutes is forever in PS2 time, especially when doing combined ops with other outfits. I've been trying to get everyone at NCC subscribed to the idea that we can (and should!) attack at a time and place of our choosing, but the prevailing wisdom by many is still to jump around like chickens with their/our heads cut off.
        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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        • #5
          Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

          Originally posted by vts View Post
          Was this a planned joint op between TG and VCO or were we working along side each other part of the time?

          Either way, how well did it run?

          Sorry, was not able to attend FnF
          Just normal coordination in COMMAND for the alert. It was not a combined op.
          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



          Comment


          • #6
            Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

            Originally posted by Assault9 View Post
            We're always available on TS for just such a need. Let us know at least 10 minutes or so before an attack and we can place a deploy shield sunderer as the primary spawn option and a cloaking one as backup.
            In this case the issue was more about reinforcements not arriving soon enough to secure a point hold; due to the time spent getting transport and arriving on point, the call needs to be made several minutes ahead of time.

            We need to find a better way to work with you! As PL I constantly forgot you were available to me, because we're mostly out of contact and you aren't part of the visible platoon structure. Maybe have you guys actually in a squad (or in a fourth delta squad) and then just cut you loose?



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            • #7
              Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

              Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
              In this case the issue was more about reinforcements not arriving soon enough to secure a point hold; due to the time spent getting transport and arriving on point, the call needs to be made several minutes ahead of time.

              We need to find a better way to work with you! As PL I constantly forgot you were available to me, because we're mostly out of contact and you aren't part of the visible platoon structure. Maybe have you guys actually in a squad (or in a fourth delta squad) and then just cut you loose?
              ^ This. I've been thinking the same. Sort of like an air squad, having them somewhat loosely attached to the platoon would allow them to much easier see/hear where we are working, and then they could possibly contribute. If that's not possible, it's not possible, but being in platoon would be much better than being out of sight and therefore out of mind.
              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

                I am not the least bit interested in redeploying constantly. I don't care how other outfits play. I am not saying the dominant high-frequency redeploy mode is wrong. I just find it of little interest or challenge.

                For me, what it leads to is dropping in on an unknown situation, running around in various degrees of confusion and lack of cohesion, and getting killed far too often and far too quickly.

                I do not, in the end, care much about winning. I care about the battle at hand and the quality of teamwork. How it is approached, managed, and, if necessary, how we successfully (or not) advance to the rear in the face of an overwhelming force.

                I am bored with the drop-in-attack-fall-to-pieces-regroup strategy/mode. It degrades the SLs ability to maintain cohesion in the squad, it leads to squads often (not always) acting with little inter-squad coordination, it is more chaos than control.

                I do not wish to argue my point of view, or persuade the group to my mode of play. I merely am here to say that I am done with this large-scale chaos, go-go-go, die-die-die, redeploy-redeploy-redeploy mode of play.

                I am not interested in matching the dominant mode of play by other outfits. If I wanted to play like other outfits I would join another outfit.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

                  You'll find a fairly receptive audience for that sentiment here, E-Male. While the degree of tolerance varies from person to person, engaging in the "redeployside" approach of reactively redeploying around the map is a surefire way to destroy the morale of a TG platoon and burn out TG leaders.

                  Could I trouble you to articulate the tactics you object to in more detail?



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

                    It is not a mater of a single tactic (I may have overstated my issue above) so much as the overuse of redeploy. This is, I realize, a matter of taste. I am not about to argue the innate superiority of any given approach.

                    In general, I do not think that the coalition approach necessarily ensures a victory. Numerous times I have persisted on an objective against the flow of coalition forces to other targets and as a result won an objective and contributed to a narrow victory. The same, of course, can be said about joining WITH a coalition-selected objective.

                    This leads me to assert that it is less important that we follow every whim of the coalition (to overstate the case a bit . . .) during a battle and instead place our own priorities at the forefront of tactical decisions. My concerns, when PLing, is to use all squads in close interlocking arrangements of mutual support. There are reasonable exceptions to this. There are costs to this as well -- coordination of 12 to 48 people takes time.

                    PLEASE keep in mind that I intend no slight to those who take a different strategic approach to the deployment of forces. We need variety of styles and should encourage variety in playstyles/priorities/strategies. No one leader (PL or SL) dominants the TG outfit thus we need not worry about homogeneity of TG's overall style/method/strategy.

                    I am VERY wary of telling TG what our approach should be or what is best. Indeterminacy rules here.

                    What I am trying to express is that, for my purposes and pleasures, our general approach *appears* to be on the verge of moving in the direction that leaves little space for my pleasure/playstyle/tactical concerns (*perhaps my impression is wrong here).

                    I am NOT overly concerned about this, as it is more important for the TG outfit to figure out the preferred playstyle than for me to assert my own.

                    The solution to my dilemma is easy (I have been thinking this over for a few months now). There is no necessity for us always to be in the same command structure (a single platoon). I can use TS to coordinate, when possible, my squad with the main platoon or primary squad.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

                      Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
                      In this case the issue was more about reinforcements not arriving soon enough to secure a point hold; due to the time spent getting transport and arriving on point, the call needs to be made several minutes ahead of time.

                      We need to find a better way to work with you! As PL I constantly forgot you were available to me, because we're mostly out of contact and you aren't part of the visible platoon structure. Maybe have you guys actually in a squad (or in a fourth delta squad) and then just cut you loose?
                      Adding us to the platoon in a single squad or in a squad where the PL is by him or herself could be another option. The only issue there might be if we fill up too quickly and need a fourth squad to ensure all outfit members can join the platoon.

                      Regarding the amount of time needed to pull logistics, ten minutes could be too much time but you have to factor in where we'll be pulling the sunderers from and getting them to the necessary location. It might be an easy situation of pulling from the adjacent friendly base or more difficult which involves flying to the next enemy base with a stealth Valkyrie, hacking sunderers from there and brining them up, not to mention any enemy we might encounter along the way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

                        Originally posted by E-Male View Post
                        I am not the least bit interested in redeploying constantly. I don't care how other outfits play. I am not saying the dominant high-frequency redeploy mode is wrong. I just find it of little interest or challenge.

                        For me, what it leads to is dropping in on an unknown situation, running around in various degrees of confusion and lack of cohesion, and getting killed far too often and far too quickly.

                        I do not, in the end, care much about winning. I care about the battle at hand and the quality of teamwork. How it is approached, managed, and, if necessary, how we successfully (or not) advance to the rear in the face of an overwhelming force.

                        I am bored with the drop-in-attack-fall-to-pieces-regroup strategy/mode. It degrades the SLs ability to maintain cohesion in the squad, it leads to squads often (not always) acting with little inter-squad coordination, it is more chaos than control.

                        I do not wish to argue my point of view, or persuade the group to my mode of play. I merely am here to say that I am done with this large-scale chaos, go-go-go, die-die-die, redeploy-redeploy-redeploy mode of play.

                        I am not interested in matching the dominant mode of play by other outfits. If I wanted to play like other outfits I would join another outfit.
                        Assault9 approves of this message!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: AAR for FnF 10/9/15

                          I agree with a lot of what E-Male is saying. I think we should work with COMMAND, but not at the expense of what makes us TG. There is some balance there however. Many people in the outfit (myself included) do want to participate in large scale coordination in a meaningful way, as that is a big part of what the game is about. That does not however mean that we must necessarily follow the conventional wisdom or strategy.

                          Many times the rapid redeployment style is ineffective anyway (but not always). I have seen situations where our sometimes "slow, plodding" playstyle (as described by "conventional PS2 wisdom" for lack of a better term) have won the day. A situation just the other night comes to mind, E-Male Bravo squad was in armor outside of some base, COMMAND (it was gamespyer, specifically) was on the point with 1-2 squads, sort of under popped, and requesting backup. He asked (in COMMAND) "can TG get out of those tanks and get on the point" to which I replied, "no, that is a dedicated armor squad, but we do have 2 other infantry squads inbound to the point now." Well, our other 2 squads (walking from one base over) never got to the point. Because we became engaged with (and killed) literally dozens of enemy tanks and Sunderers outside of the base. I wasn't in proximity to E-Male's armor squad, but I imagine it was a similar situation on his end of the base. Those squads on the point would have never made it had the enemy armor and Sunderer reinforcements been able to reach the base. But because we were there outside, the guys inside held on and we won the base.

                          When I lead, I try to balance the desires of everyone in the group. Yes we have CoC, but at the end of the day this is a game and we should be having fun. Therefore I try to rapidly redeploy as little as possible. But sometimes it can't be helped, particularly near the end of a close alert. It's unfortunate that during alerts is the only time we really get to see much strategic level coordination, again that being one of the reasons many of us chose to play this game in the first place. I certainly would not want to see us lose a prime time alert because our platoon would not / could not redeploy to re-secure some critical base (or join in the final assault on that one critical base) at the very end of an alert.

                          There is one other point that I would like everyone to consider, however. Something that I have become cognizant of through NCC/COMMAND is that, when we are running a full platoon (or close to that), in today's PS2 Emerald populations, that can actually represent quite a large portion of the NC's overall forces. On a lot of nights, there may be only 5 platoons in COMMAND, which would make our platoon 20% of the overall NC forces online that evening. Now I realize that we have no real obligation to the larger Emerald NC community, but I do think it would be incredibly selfish and irresponsible of us to "take our ball and go home" so to speak when our platoon could literally make the difference in whether we win an alert or not. And now you are talking about an entire faction's players' worth of enjoyment of the game (well, at least to some degree anyway). Heck, for that matter, I have seen many times where literally 2 more squads participating in COMMAND would have made the difference between winning and losing the alert.

                          So I guess where I come out on it is, employ the playstyle/strategy/tactics that you prefer, after all that is one of the advantages of taking lead, you get to do what you want. However I would hope that we would continue to work with our allies, and especially so during alerts, regardless of whatever strategy we employ.
                          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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