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  • Lets talk about the liberator

    So with the bountiful amount of free cert points we've been given, I decided to try out the liberator to see what it was all about. However, when I had kitted it out I realized that I had no idea how to fly it. What I tried to do was to find a relatively quiet spot on the edge of the battle and hover completely still up high in order to keep the gun as stable as possible. The seemed to work fine for offense, but hovering completely still wasn't exactly the most safe of practices. One particular hazard that I discovered was fighters with rocket pods. They can sneak up on you, and by the time you can react, they've already hit you with a lot of rockets. Then there is obviously the ground based AA that can make this tactic impossible to pull off.

    From the above, it is evident that the hovering tactic is very lacking in survivability. This leaves me wondering if anyone else have come up with techniques that allows your gunner to deliver accurate rounds on target while leaving the liberator less like a sitting duck. Also what is peoples oppinions on the various guns available to the liberator as well as the matter of 1 vs 2 gunners.

  • #2
    Re: Lets talk about the liberator

    I've flown liberators, getting considerable kills, whilst surviving for over 20 minutes often. So I think I can give some Ideas.

    1) You always want a rear gunner.

    A good rear gunner will get nearly as much kills off fighters as your 2nd gunner. The rear gunner saves your butt so many times. You really got to go with three gunners unless you have like 3 fighters as support. Still I'd always prefer a rear gunner to fighter that is not a total ACE pilot.




    2)The easiest tactic: mop-up

    Where just one liberator can shine even, is in cleaning up behind friendly lines. There are always plenty of enemies trying to come trough the lines to flank you, infiltrators that want to solo cap all day etc. If you have a liberator you can take these guys out rather easily; because they are behind enemy lines, they do not have the AA support 90% of the time that they will nearly always have behind their own lines. This is why the liberator shines in this mop-up role.



    3) CAS

    Another tactic I experimented with only shortly, is having an infiltrator hide somewhere safe to spot suitable targets. You keep the lib back at a safe distance. As soon as you have precise data about the target (strength, what units, how to approach how to engage) You go in with maximum intel, do precise damage quickly, bug out and then repeat.

    I only tried this once. I thik this tactic can be immensely effective.



    4)Something to try:

    Mass lib bombing raids. I haven't tried it yet, but there must be a way to do this in a somewhat useful way. One plausible way this might work, is when confronted with huge zerg armor-blobs. I think if say 8 libs would hit a full armor platoon (!) when it is already engaged with infantry.... you would murder them in about one minute, and you would probably lose only half the libs. This is certainly on my experimentation schedule.



    5) On maneuvering the vehicle.

    -When doing the mop-up tactic, it is often possible to come in fast, stop and stay stationary for optimal targeting.

    -The more you near the enemy lines, the more uncommon this becomes. In enemy lines you should very rarely do this if you hope to survive, which is not always the case for me. sometimes the damage that can be done outweigs the cost of the lib for me.

    -In general I would advise to immidatly retreat from the first flak round that hits you. Any kind of non-flak fire, I will often endure a bit while watching the damage. In the case of flak I vbug out immediately.

    - Make your gunner talk. The communications of the gunner(s) is I believe the most important factor to succes. A good gunner will tell me what I need to know to optimize positioning/targeting constantly. Indications of direction should be given with map directions, or by using the starboard/port terminology. left and right are too confusing as an indication.

    -If you cannot hover over target, keep moving a little, varying speed and direction so tank shells and rockets cannot hit you. I try to time my changes in momentum to when the gunner is reloading (using the dalton most myself).



    There, hope that gives you some ideas

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Lets talk about the liberator

      Next patch the Lib is getting buffed both in flak resistance and in main gun effectiveness.

      Meanwhile ESF rockets are being nerfed.

      Lib pilots rejoice!

      Source:http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...changes.42532/
      Teamwork and Tactics are OP


      Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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      • #4
        Re: Lets talk about the liberator

        As long as you have a competent belly gunner, I don't feel you need to ALWAYS have a rear turret gunner. I say this because as soon as you are engaged by a fighter aircraft you should be disengaging from bombing and now starting to evade and get to a friendly area with other aircraft. As you are disengaging, your belly gunner should move to the tail for cover as he now doesnt need to worry about bombing anyone. Having a dedicated tail gunner is nice but I don't think it's a necessity to operate a lib.

        From flying before, as soon as you are getting engaged by a fighter aircraft max out your airspeed, and pitch the nose down. This is vital for the tail gunner since their field of view is very restricted on the vertical axis. If an enemy pilot is smart, they attack libs from above, and the tail is really restricted getting above like... 30degress nosehigh. The only way you'll survive is if you get your tail gunner the best angle and that's by pitching the nose over.

        That also directly falls into having good communications with your crew. Al already talked about this so I'm not going to expand further.

        Those are really my big two things I wanted to provide. You'll find by talking with your belly gunner, maybe the best way to fly over a tower is in a slow orbit, and banking the aircraft to the outside to again give the gunner a better angle. He should be telling you everything he sees or can't see and you've got to make that adjust. Nothing is more annoying as a gunner than seeing a giant mass of targets, relaying that, and your pilot just aimlessly flying around.

        Hope that is what your looking for.


        These Things We Do... That Other's May Live

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        • #5
          Re: Lets talk about the liberator

          The key to Lib success is ground AA or air superiority. If you have that, you can rain death on the battlefield. In other words, you need backup to use the Lib to max effectiveness.
          "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"
          Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of the United States, 1945

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          • #6
            Re: Lets talk about the liberator

            The method used with the infiltrator to spot enemies (as bga said) was EXTREMELY effective. I was flying 2nd seat for him when we did this. I would switch to the 3rd seat when enemy fighters came for us. I think the highlight of that was when a magrider and sundy were spotted with alot of infantry. We came in low and just pounced, magrider was down in one mortar (it was hurting already) and than the sundy was down in a couple hits and then we mopped up the infantry, it was excellant. made me feel epic
            |TG-Irr| di1lweed1212

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            • #7
              Re: Lets talk about the liberator

              I think I've ended up feeling like having two gunners is a waste of resources. The tail gunner has nothing to do most of the time, and doesn't get exp from the gunners kills. So instead of tying up a player that could be doing something else, you could just have the belly gunner switch to the rear gun for air defense. There are few times where you really need both guns at the same time anyway.

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              • #8
                Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                Two-man seems to be the way to go.

                I was using a Liberator as a personal transport on Amerish the other day, (So sue me!) and took out a particularly poor scythe pilot by switching to the tailgun, emptying the clip, then switching back to the pilot seat to prevent a crash. Had to do it twice. Poor guy even had AA missiles, and my Lib without a single cert. :P
                Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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                • #9
                  Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                  I disagree. If I have two gunners, and a ESF attacks me I can turn over and have two gunners attack. One hit by the main gun is a kill normally if the tail gun has chipped away at em. It is also possible that the tailgunner spots the target in advance and engage. The attacker may reconsider, I would.

                  With one gunner I feel weak. I have half the firepower, and now I feel any esf is a threat instead of a target.

                  I'm not saying one gunner is bad, it'll do is ok when you have air-support.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                    I'd much rather have 1 gunner and another person in a reaver, than having one person stuck in a crappy tailgun. To add insult to injury the tailgunner doesn't get any exp as well.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                      Well only the best reaver pilots will be with you when you need them. They are not always available.

                      I've had rounds where my tailgunner got nearly as many or more points. But that was before all the air vehicles where turned into tanks. The tailgun was way more dangerous in beta.

                      THe devs should really beef up the tailgunner, or removing it altogether would be a pity.



                      ---
                      One idea I just had, if you don't use a tailgunner, so you will be too late to switch if attacked by any good esf, you might as well have the mortar on the rear of the lib. I might get it, since I often have Jengles covering my fabulous rear end *no homo* :D. Damn I should have made my ps2 name "Biggaayal *no homo*".


                      ---
                      One Idea to test in this regard.
                      I read somwhere that some weapons are handled client side, I believe these are using what some call 'hitscan' weapons. If your client sees you hit an enemy, the server will register it. Therefore if the enemy is not rendering, your client cannot detect a hit, therefore the server cannot.

                      However this person said that not all weapons are like this. For one he said the bulldog -which I think is for the sunderer, and possibly also for the liberator- is not client side but server side.....
                      ...
                      ...
                      I.e. able to hit infantry beyond viewing distance.
                      ...
                      ...
                      I am disappointed in myself that I forgot to test this today when I had an hour on!


                      I can see it now. A lib, to kill off all the tanks from 750m, and his rear gunner, or even a gal with 1 or 2 mortars, to create armaggedic mayhem. God i hope this guy was right since I already have 2x mortars on the sundy, and one on the gal. I really hope I can use the gal effectively at some point for bombing! B52 of the future here I come!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                        Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                        I read somwhere that some weapons are handled client side, I believe these are using what some call 'hitscan' weapons. If your client sees you hit an enemy, the server will register it. Therefore if the enemy is not rendering, your client cannot detect a hit, therefore the server cannot.

                        However this person said that not all weapons are like this. For one he said the bulldog -which I think is for the sunderer, and possibly also for the liberator- is not client side but server side.....
                        AFAIK all weapons are client-side which is frankly, a huge annoyance.

                        It explains a lot of the being killed after diving into cover occurrences.

                        Personally I'd rather have one gunner and one Reaver pilot - it divides the enemy AA fire and I know that in an emergency my gunner can swap seats anyway - I don't lose much firepower.
                        Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                        Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                          Well this person on the forum definitely stated with the air of knowledge that not all are hitscan. We'll see. I'll test if I can teamkill you outside of rendering distance :p.

                          Tested with the m60 bulldog on the sundy, no luck.
                          Last edited by BigGaayAl; 11-30-2012, 04:42 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                            What are the best guns to use with the liberator? Lets say... three setups.. one for tank killing.. infantry killing.. and a medium of both.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Lets talk about the liberator

                              Originally posted by BigGaayAl View Post
                              Well this person on the forum definitely stated with the air of knowledge that not all are hitscan. We'll see. I'll test if I can teamkill you outside of rendering distance :p.
                              'Hitscan' weapons refer to weapons that when fired, calculate a simple trajectory line and if any player intersects that line at the moment of firing, a hit is registered. In effect, the projectile has an instantaneous travel speed and there is no need to lead the target. All bullet weapons in Call of Duty use this system. For an example closer to TG's heart, BF 1942 and Vietnam used hitscan weapons, while BF2 and 2142 did not.

                              I don't believe that any weapons in PS2 are hitscan, actually.
                              Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                              Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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