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  • Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

    http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...7/#post-973977

    Originally posted by Autarkis, post: 972600, member: 19689
    Oh boy, here we go again.

    PS2 is a wonderful game but there's a lot wrong with it. No one person has managed to capture a full list of issues (and thoughtful solutions) in one place, so I offer this write-up as my small contribution to tackling the wicked problem of PS2's shallow, aimless, stagnated gameplay.

    There are other, very good posts about base design, the meta-game and commander/soldier interaction and these all need to be considered in concert to elevate the game to a level everyone wants.

    For my part, I want to talk about a dimension of utmost importance to the game's long-term success: the individual player experience.

    When I say player experience, I mean the target experience that the designers want each player to have by playing the game. For Planetside 2, that target experience is "being an individual soldier in an enormous military organization, fighting other factions to capture and keep important territory in a persistent world."

    The essential elements of that experience include:
    Playing a role in a larger plan
    Having a story for your military service
    Contributing in tangible ways
    Interacting with teammates
    Being rewarded for accomplishments
    Progressing in specific, relevant ways (i.e. your military "career")
    Blowing **** up
    Everything I'm about to say I say with this target experience in mind. I regard equally players playing alone, players in small squads and players in large outfits. I am not prejudiced against tank drivers, pilots, lone wolves, zergs or anything in between. I believe that it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round and I want all of us to have fun.

    How did this essay take shape?

    I started writing this as a response to the short-sighted suggestion to remove KDR, or death stats, from the game. That notion has been popularized because of ease of implementation and the theory that it will improve player behavior. That didn't pass the sniff test, so I decided to take a cut at counter-balancing the argument.

    In formulating my reply, I took several steps backwards from the situation. This revealed a series of larger problems that are far more responsible for player behavior than us being able to see our death stats, and that process, in turn, uncovered some directional solutions to address the disease rather than an insignificant symptom.

    The Current Certification System is Bad

    Consider this truth: General pool certification points can be used to unlock anything and everything. The most lucrative way to gain certification points is killing infantry from the comfort of a tank or Liberator. The most reliable place to find infantry is at respawn points.

    This single line of logic has lead to very unpleasant behavior and has detracted from player experience in numerous ways. It has created very homogenized forces and removed the role specialization and the incentives to go deep into areas of expertise - a very real characteristic of a large military organization and a component of the experience we want players to have.

    So how do we convince people to branch out and stop farming?

    Idea 1: Multiple Certification Pools & Encouraging Roles

    One answer is a three-track certification system, which consists of class certifications, equipment certifications and general pool certifications.

    Types of certifications (earning rates are provisional):
    Class Certs: Yielded at a 70% rate, usable on anything associated with the class
    Equipment Certs: Yielded at a 100% rate, usable on upgrades and unlocks for that category of equipment
    General Certs: Yielded at a 30% rate, usable on anything
    If you kill as enemy soldier as an Infiltrator with a sniper rifle, we award you 10 certs to your Sniper Rifle pool, 7 certs to your Infiltrator pool and 3 certs to your general pool. If you wanted to buy a new scope for your rifle, you could spend all 10 of those certs toward that end, or you could spend only Sniper Rifle certs (if you had enough) and bank the rest. If you wanted to buy a cloaking upgrade, you could spend the 7 Infiltrator class certs and the 3 general pool certs.

    As you may have inferred from the example, equipment and vehicles are organized into categories, not dissimilar from current state: Assault Rifles, Carbines, AA weapons, Grenades, AT Mines, AP Mines, Explosives, LMGs, Sniper Rifles, Light Tanks, Heavy Tanks, Rocket Launchers, Bombers, Fighters, etc.

    The most economic way to earn certs for a given class, vehicle or piece of equipment, is to use it. That said, even being maxed in a given class will allow you to earn toward other classes at a modest rate using general pool.

    General pool certs can be spent on anything, including general abilities like medkits and squad leader features.

    This change defrays the reliance on the Most Efficient Method system we have now, encourages stronger player identity through specialization, creates a stronger combined arms force but does not entirely sacrifice the benefits of general experience and seniority.

    What else has to change to really make the new cert system work?
    Cert pricing needs to be adjusted to accommodate the new system
    Unlocks that cross classes need to be available to all classes when unlocked for one
    Cert rewards need to be rationalized now that we're handing out three types in specific proportions (equipment categories get the most, classes get the next highest, general pool gets the lowest)
    Add cert refunds, which immediately return 25% of the initial cert cost to your general pool. For example, if you spent 100 Infiltrator certification points on a new scope, refunding that scope would drop 25 cert points into your general pool. This allows you to slowly cert into other specializations if you desire, but it's not a cost-free adjustment.
    The re-introduction of vehicle operator and pilot classes to catch certs from operating vehicles. These would be subsets of the Engineer class, allowed to carry only a Carbine, Pistol and Repair tool. Only Pilots and Operators may drive Tanks and Aircraft. Their class certs relate to operation of vehicles.
    What changes about the cash shop?

    Nothing! It still makes good sense to allow players who want to spend money to buy whatever they want. It relieves them of having to spend the time to gain the certs they need - same as now.

    Idea 2: More Stats, Badges & KDR

    A fundamental rule of game design (and any design, really) is system feedback. We need feedback to know how we are doing, where we can improve and a way to reflect on what we have done. This feedback can be immediate (you just got shot n the face), near-term (you've revived 10 people in this battle) and long-term (you die a lot to shotguns, and it's an area you could improve).

    To that end I propose more stats, not fewer, which very much includes Kills and Deaths. Give us overall KD, infantry vs. infantry KD, infantry vs. armor KD, infantry vs. aircraft KD, armor vs. armor KD... etc. I'd love to see include specific weapons and vehicles (which we already know they track for the death summary). Break it down, don't give it up.

    Coupled with comprehensive, detailed statistics, we also need a badge system that triggers on behaviors that we know to be good for team play and that celebrate the activities that players undertake in fulfilling their roles. Examples may include:
    asset destruction
    revives
    assists and teamwork-based kills (such as combined damage to down a Galaxy)
    anti-vehicle/anti-air operations (especially as infantry, which is high risk)
    base defense (including extra rewards for sustained defense)
    reinforcement of teammates
    ammo sharing
    recapturing at-risk facilities (with scaling based on the degree of reversal)
    time spent and points scored in various types of vehicles
    time spent and points scored in squads, alone or in platoons
    spotting/scouting
    These medals and tokens should be visible when you encounter another player (which are displayed is up to the player). This could be a simple as commendations displayed in short form under the player's name on mouseover, integrated as a new title or rank type ("Airman So and So"), or shown as markings on the player's armor or vehicle.

    Achievements should also include a modest cert reward in both general and class tracks, and I'd love to see whole new categories of items, both cosmetic and practical, linked exclusively to achievements.

    These stats become our individual stories in the universe of Planetside.

    Idea 3: Missions & Objectives

    As others have noted, we need more to do in PS2. One does not have to squint hard to envision a long list of objectives that dovetail with the list of achievement above.

    I propose a a pool of tasks, added by commanders and platoon leaders and accepted by squad leaders and individuals (see the chain of command forming?). These are per empire on a given continent and can be accessed via a communications console. Tasks may include:
    Destroy base assets
    Capture a control point
    Defend a control point
    Scout an area and report to the requestor
    Set up a Sunderer at a given location
    Patrol a given area
    Fortify an area with mines
    Reinforce a battle
    Rescue a facility being captured
    Provide air support in a given area
    Once accepted, a task is assigned to a person or group and is carried out. Upon completion (based on a set of conditions), bonus certs are rewarded, achievements are earned and you've made your little dent in the never-ending battle for the future.

    Commander would have options, like limiting missions only to Outfit members, and the ability to monitor the locations and progress of anyone who has accepted their missions.

    Access to this console would be certed into via the squad leader certs, or through a new commander category.

    Conclusion & Grains of Salt

    Thanks for reading - this was fun to write. If nothing else, I hope it's thought-provoking. I'm a firm believer that good ideas do not care where they come from, and that anyone is allowed to offer well-thought-out suggestions and have them considered. To that end, I hope you reply with your thoughts, changes and criticisms, and I want you to consider the following as you do:

    Our target experience is "being an individual soldier in an enormous military organization, fighting other factions to capture and keep important territory in a persistent world."

    What choices can we make about the game's design to solidify and deepen the player experience?

    What defines being a soldier in a huge army?

    How can we make sure the game is fun for everyone, from individual operatives all the way up to giant outfits?

    How can we simultaneously celebrate the individual and promote the health of the group?

  • #2
    Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

    Okay enough already. I am getting really really tired of constantly seeing nothing but negativity about this game spewing out of your mouth.

    I get it. You have issues with how they developed this game. But is it really something we have to read over and over and over in every single thread as well as new ones you create simply to continue the bashing?
    Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

      I have invested too much money to give up on this now.
      The gameplay will evolve.
      You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
      So that when they turn their backs on you,
      You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

        I'm in the same boat as Callous. Ive spent somewhere around $200.00 so far. I am crossing my fingers that SOE continues to improve the game from constructive feedback from the PS2 community (players).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

          I too have invested in this game and in a way it's future. I know it has some issues but I believe it has tons of potential that will be developed over the coming months. I think the basic game and premise is solid so I am not giving up, seems way too early to throw in the towel. Besides for the most part I actually am having fun when I log on and play so that counts for something.
          Home/Gaming PC: [email protected]/Asus Rog Maximus VIII Formula/EVGA GTX 1080 SC/Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB)/Corsair Carbide Quiet 600Q/Corsair RM750i/Acer XB270H 27"/BenQ G2400W 24"/Sound BVlaster ZX/Samsung 850 Pro SSDs x2/Samsung 950 Pro x1/Win10 Pro 64bit/Saitek X52/TrackIR3: Pro-TrackClip Pro/

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          • #6
            Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

            Originally posted by Apophis View Post
            Okay enough already. I am getting really really tired of constantly seeing nothing but negativity about this game spewing out of your mouth.

            I get it. You have issues with how they developed this game. But is it really something we have to read over and over and over in every single thread as well as new ones you create simply to continue the bashing?
            Why can't a community actively talk amongst its own members about things relating to the game? Many of us have monetary investments in this game and many of us have desires for this game to go somewhere great. However, also, many of us have played the game consistently with our outfit members, unlike some who don't understand the 'bashing', and have already spoken about changes/gripes in game and would like to continue these discussions in our community's forums?

            I might be the most vocal here but I doubt I'm the minority and I don't understand why you wouldn't want your own community to talk about it? Also, if you wouldn't get so irrational about my posting, you would see that it was a good opinion piece about what works, what might be worth changing, and the benefits. Constructive criticism.

            You and wicks are acting as if its just; "Rabble rabbling"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

              Originally posted by Ytman View Post
              Why can't a community actively talk amongst its own members about things relating to the game? Many of us have monetary investments in this game and many of us have desires for this game to go somewhere great. However, also, many of us have played the game consistently with our outfit members, unlike some who don't understand the 'bashing', and have already spoken about changes/gripes in game and would like to continue these discussions in our community's forums?

              I might be the most vocal here but I doubt I'm the minority and I don't understand why you wouldn't want your own community to talk about it? Also, if you wouldn't get so irrational about my posting, you would see that it was a good opinion piece about what works, what might be worth changing, and the benefits. Constructive criticism.

              You and wicks are acting as if its just; "Rabble rabbling"
              I've got no issue with it. But thread after thread with largely nothing more than complaints, or individuals who seem to feel the need to jump into any other thread just to throw in their repeated negativity doesn't do anything POSITIVE at all for the title or the community.

              And don't you DARE attempt to slight me by implying I don't play. I've been AFK over the holidays, but I've got kids and family to deal with and unfortunately that comes FIRST. I play fairly regularly (aside from the holiday break) but it may just be earlier/later than you. For those that play late at night (EST) I could easily say that none of YOU actually play because I don't see YOU online when I'm on.

              Being the most vocal isn't always a good thing, at some point, one needs to understand that they've gotten their points out there and should maybe just step back and relax.
              Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                Sounds like they are on it, whatever they lay out will tell me a lot about the games future. https://twitter.com/planetside2
                Home/Gaming PC: [email protected]/Asus Rog Maximus VIII Formula/EVGA GTX 1080 SC/Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB)/Corsair Carbide Quiet 600Q/Corsair RM750i/Acer XB270H 27"/BenQ G2400W 24"/Sound BVlaster ZX/Samsung 850 Pro SSDs x2/Samsung 950 Pro x1/Win10 Pro 64bit/Saitek X52/TrackIR3: Pro-TrackClip Pro/

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                • #9
                  Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                  Bit of advice Ytman, when you are actively exchanging PM's with me, as Community Manager, don't attempt to characterise my management of this community as a whole in such a simplistic and derogatory way. As Apo has said, sometimes when you have had your say you actually need to close your mouth for a few seconds and wait for a response, so we can gather together what we are doing and provide you with a decent response.

                  It also isn't really positive to continually post and repost 'your vision' of what needs to be done/what's wrong with the game. Amazingly, many of us, like Apo and myself have an equal investment in this title both monetary and time and and far greater one in the TG community. We also have a lot of experience that, as ever, your singular vision tends to conveniently ignore. I know for a fact that I take the time to read your posts and think about them. Can you say with all honesty that you take the time to consider the impact of your posts and how they come across? I have to say, on recent form, I doubt it.

                  Stand down for 5 minutes, I'll get back to you, as I said in my pm's.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                    As with most such games, the design is largely set, and very little will change.

                    This renders most of the "constructive criticism" regarding what the game should be like to be little more than wishful thinking.

                    It is what it is.

                    There is a certain futility to the attempt to massively reorganize the way the game is played.

                    Furthermore, the need for massive reorganization or redesign remains to be established.

                    I am developing a Sunderer specialization -- there are many such specialization to be accomplished even within the current design.

                    The assumption that a reward system of a certain design would promote more team play is highly suspect and lacks any significant empirical foundation.

                    It may well be that mature teamplay primarily develops from factors external to game design (such as community design and culture here at TG).

                    Detailed analysis of how to "improve" the game assume far too much regarding the degree to which the budget and intentions of the Sony corporation can be made to bend to the will of the community.

                    We might as well engage in discussion of flat tax proposals or join the Tea Party.

                    I would prefer to keep my feet on the ground.
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                      I still hold hope that things can be fixed. During beta, the map, and game mechanics changed drastically between patches. We're functionally in beta with no more character wipes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                        Originally posted by Boogalo View Post
                        I still hold hope that things can be fixed. During beta, the map, and game mechanics changed drastically between patches. We're functionally in beta with no more character wipes.
                        Yes, things can be fixed, and changes will be made.

                        The question is the range and scope of possible changes (obviously largely unknown).

                        I doubt that the budget for changes post-release matches the situation in beta development.

                        And yes, the community does influence the designers, but I remain skeptical regarding the scope of the community's influence.

                        Before detailed proposals are debated, the necessary question remains unanswered: what are the designers willing to change at this point?
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                          Originally posted by E-Male View Post
                          We might as well engage in discussion of flat tax proposals or join the Tea Party.

                          I would prefer to keep my feet on the ground.
                          Ouch.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                            I personally think that certain elements will be adjusted, in light of future proposals like inter continental warfare, some form of shift will be inevitable.

                            I think another thing people overlook is the birth of PS2. By it's very nature it had a collaborative start, this slows down the process of change but can make the cuts a lot deeper. If you launch a title with a singular vision then everything afterwards is reactive, if you react at all. PS2 on the other hand has had some degree of input as we go along and I personally don't anticipate that changing. On a base level it would be counter productive.

                            Oh small point, has anyone else played a massively multiplayer FPS with loads of cool guns, no inherent broken mechanics like kill streaks rewarding already dominating players, in a sandbox environment, where you can combine air, land and infantry lately? I remember when we used to get frustrated about the backwards steps that console limited shooters took, nevermind in tactics, but in simple physical size and numbers. Obviously the 100's of players online jet pac'ng about and the potential for combined ops and just the cornucopia of tactics available isn't enough.

                            Learn to run before you can walk. Instead of worrying about whether or not you are getting the correct percentage bonus as you see it for the number of whatever you held, try and work out whether or not you actually moved to your objective in a tactical manner, whether you had positive tactical control of you squad etc. Those are the things TG is focused on, whatever the game.


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                            • #15
                              Re: Interesting Post on the PS2 Forums

                              not to get off track....but while I was mapping Some of Indar today, I went into Allatum to find the terminals and found the base ours, with no enemies, but SCU and shield generator down. I believe this is a sign that a zerg came through XD
                              |TG-Irr| di1lweed1212

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