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  • Meta-game discussion

    I watched the video and think it would be at least a good start.

    http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...elopers.80250/
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  • #2
    Re: Meta-game discussion

    My first impression is that the author is using "metagame" as little more than a synonym for strategy.

    EDIT:

    I just do not see how the discussion of "metagame" here is anything more than expanding the strategic possibilities of gameplay.

    I concur that the game needs enhanced strategic complexity if it is to keep us entertained in the long run.

    I find the concept of neutral territories interesting and i have often thought that game designers waste space by not making more use of non-defined (neutral) territory to allow for emergent behaviour.

    In game design emergent behaviour is a property of complexity AND user-creation potential. Lacking the ability for users to create anything other than their own avatar and vehicles, PS2 will need to expand complexity.

    The use of the terms metagame and emergent remain confused in this discussion. Metagame is reduced to strategic possibilities, and emergent refers to expected behaviour. In academic discussions of online gaming emergent refers to player behaviour that is unplanned and largely unforeseen by designers.

    But all in all, it is very good to see such public and deep discussion of game design by the corporation.

    A rare moment in gaming culture.
    Last edited by E-Male; 01-17-2013, 11:14 PM.
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    • #3
      Re: Meta-game discussion

      Metagame is, in the broadest and simplest sense, strategy defined not by the rules within the game but outside of the game and you are not wrong for making the connection. What the author is trying to suggest is adding more nuance to the current strategic in-game rule-set that would allow a more dynamic but focused metagame. Realistically you can not actually make a game and expect a certain specific metagame to form. Rather you make the game and the players, and the strategies they employ, eventually create an environment where certain strategies exist.

      Chess metagame is the strategy of deciding how to open and what moves you should do in anticipation of what moves you expect your opponent working towards. Effectively professional level chess play is the game of playing the game. Tic-Tac-Toe's metagame is the example of a BAD metagame. Anyone who understands the basic concept of the game can always force the stalemate and that strategy is the only sure way to not lose not utilizing that implies defeat. Metagame and strategy are directly related.

      On the subject of the video I think it was great example of a simple way to work with the current foundation and implement much needed nuance to the core strategic game of PlanetSide2.

      Edit: Would anyone want to work over the weekend to try and come up with a suggestion to post to redit?
      Last edited by Ytman; 01-18-2013, 12:10 AM.

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      • #4
        Re: Meta-game discussion

        Originally posted by Ytman View Post
        . . .
        On the subject of the video I think it was great example of a simple way to work with the current foundation and implement much needed nuance to the core strategic game of PlanetSide2.
        I agree. It is an attempt to work within the constraints of budget and time to arrive at reasonable solutions.

        On a side note, I see a business model (based on WoW etc) of game farms in China creating full certed avatars and then selling them.

        How much would the market pay for a PS2 avatar that had everything asset available?
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        • #5
          Re: Meta-game discussion

          Originally posted by E-Male View Post
          I agree. It is an attempt to work within the constraints of budget and time to arrive at reasonable solutions.

          On a side note, I see a business model (based on WoW etc) of game farms in China creating full certed avatars and then selling them.

          How much would the market pay for a PS2 avatar that had everything asset available?
          I wouldn't pay as much as I have already spent given the game play.
          You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
          So that when they turn their backs on you,
          You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

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          • #6
            Re: Meta-game discussion

            WWIIOnline was one of the best games I played that I considered had (and still has) a good "metagame". Can't implement everything they have, of course...but if one were looking for good ideas...I'd start there.

            My biggest issue with WWIIOL was my ability to only play it once or twice a week as my gaming time is limited. The battleground needed to be manned 24x7 to make progress, thus needed multiple time zone coordination. I'm still amazed the game is still around and strong after so many years. Not near as well known as EVE, but still a winner in my book.


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            • #7
              Re: Meta-game discussion

              Actually, while working on my own suggestion I came to the conclusion that the video was explicitly not talking about the Meta-game. Quite honestly nothing you do within the games rule set can actually have a SPECIFIC effect on the meta-game. Here I want to explain my concept of the PS2 METAGAME.


              PS2 consists of two main levels of play with their own rulesets; the TACTICAL LEVEL (battle over a Hex Region) and the STRATEGIC LEVEL (battle over multiple Hex Regions over time), both levels for our purposes will be considered as separate but linked. The METAGAME would be the strategy employed outside of both TACTICAL/STRATEGIC LEVELS of play and develops as a combination of the rulesets and the gamestyle of the players.

              A METAGAME element of our current PS2 is the 'ZERG' and the 'GHOST CAP'. Another METAGAME element is the 'BIOLAB DEFENSE' which is employed by many outfits to hold a continent 'lock' despite being vastly outnumbered. Finally, an element of the PS2 METAGAME is the 'CERT POINT/PLAYER PROGRESSION' which creates a potential counter force as it places the individual's progression over the team.

              To improve the METAGAME would first imply improving the TACTICAL/STRATEGIC rulesets and finding a way to directly tie 'PLAYER PROGRESSION' into that.

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              • #8
                Re: Meta-game discussion

                An excellent overview of the conceptual overload surrounding the term metagame, and the varieties of its meaning within the gaming community can be found here.
                The term 'metagame' is frequently used by players, game designers
                and academics to describe a wide variety of play activities
                perceived by players as being 'outside' or 'peripheral' to the game,
                while still being important to the overall game experience. This
                paper reviews the emic usage of the term 'metagame', identifying
                three categories of popular use; as higher strategy (such as the
                Starcraft metagame), as 'peripheral' considerations (such as
                'metagaming' in role-play games) and as additional content (the
                'achievement metagame'). We understand the emic usage of
                metagame as being a tool that players use to conceptualise
                distinctions between game and non-game activities, as well as
                more-game and less-game activities, which is worthy of serious
                analysis.
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