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  • Divide and Conquer requires timing.

    Please take a moment to think about what TG is about. We promote teamwork, communication, and realistic play. Teamwork isn't just about being in the squad and working with the guy next to you, it's about helping your team, the NC in this case, as a whole achieve the objective. Today, I was SLing a squad and saw an opportunity to take advantage of the enemy spreading themselves too thin at Zurvan, The Crown and the Palisades, so I ordered my full squad to move on the crown even though we had not taken Zurvan or the Palisades, yet. There was a large friendly airborne force over Palisades at the time, which was capping palisades, which would have given us a connection to The Crown. Sometimes plans require precise timing to be effective. In this case, by forcing the enemy to decide which of the three objectives is the most important to them, we could have done a divide and conquer approach. Instead the enemy was able to reinforce it's hold on the Crown with the dead from Palisades after NC capped it.

    Here's the situation, only 2 members, both of which were TGer's, actually followed the order. While another TGer told me that my plan was a bad plan then ran off to help cap Zuvan which the zerg was doing already. He did not take into account that when I gave the order, there were less than an enemy squad on the Crown. Once Palisades and Zurvan were capped, all the enemy respawned on the Crown, ruining a chance to get all three at the same time.
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  • #2
    Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.



    Seriously. CoC, no matter what the orders, dictate that you follow them. Squad leading isn't done for one's own health or the gaining of certs/XP, generally you gain far less when leading (especially the higher the leader), and so the 'squad-lings' need to know when to check their opinions at the door and be the scalpel you need.

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    • #3
      Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

      That sounds like a real buzz kill Xen. Sorry to hear that happened to you.

      Just a friendly reminder to folks, if you wear the tags, you are required to follow your PL/SL's orders even though you might disagree with them. If you're not happy with your SL's plan, style or mission focus, leave the squad and find another one or start your own.

      We have a lot of new players that might not have received the memo, so to speak. If folks see any un-TG behavior from them or any other member, please be sure to let the admin team know. Folks can post in the Contact Outfit Administration forum with a description of what happened, the player's name and the date and the time and we'll look into it.




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      • #4
        Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

        Also I make it a habit to kick people from TG from the squad without warning if they break CoC in such a blatant way.

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        • #5
          Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

          And this is the fundamental problem in this game. You Xen, and most in TG have the desire to find the tactical level of gameplay within PS2. You would rather see the opening, take advantage of it, and exploit it. However, this comes at the loss of XP that you would gain from a big fight at Zurvan, which is where the majority of the playerbase will be. They want to gain the Xp, because the XP is what will give you more certs and getting you more options for character development. The problem between overall squad gameplay and the interests of the people that are actually playing the game.

          So you have this conundrum between the TG Primer, following orders, and advancing the "cause", vs. actually developing the character within the game - which is the whole point. Otherwise, if there was no character development, than doing what you did is the exact thing that should have been done. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, and I'm not disagreeing with you or the TG Method/Primer, but honestly, I'm not going to blame a guy that doesn't follow orders because he wants to develop his character. Thats what the game is about.

          That also doesn't mean I wouldn't boot him for not following orders either. Cool, go build your toon, but do it in another squad.


          These Things We Do... That Other's May Live

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          • #6
            Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

            Originally posted by P.Drona View Post
            That sounds like a real buzz kill Xen. Sorry to hear that happened to you.

            Folks can post in the Contact Outfit Administration forum with a description of what happened, the player's name and the date and the time and we'll look into it.
            I had to log after watching the opportunity slip by. So, yea big buzz kill for the day. As for COA, I felt this was a teachable moment more than an administration moment. Sometimes, even if orders make no sense, go along, you never know what glory you may find in the end.
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            • #7
              Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

              Originally posted by Serjikal View Post
              And this is the fundamental problem in this game. You Xen, and most in TG have the desire to find the tactical level of gameplay within PS2. You would rather see the opening, take advantage of it, and exploit it. However, this comes at the loss of XP that you would gain from a big fight at Zurvan, which is where the majority of the playerbase will be. They want to gain the Xp, because the XP is what will give you more certs and getting you more options for character development. The problem between overall squad gameplay and the interests of the people that are actually playing the game.

              So you have this conundrum between the TG Primer, following orders, and advancing the "cause", vs. actually developing the character within the game - which is the whole point. Otherwise, if there was no character development, than doing what you did is the exact thing that should have been done. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, and I'm not disagreeing with you or the TG Method/Primer, but honestly, I'm not going to blame a guy that doesn't follow orders because he wants to develop his character. Thats what the game is about.

              That also doesn't mean I wouldn't boot him for not following orders either. Cool, go build your toon, but do it in another squad.
              The TG primer has routinely not be in line with "what the game is about" In fact TG has much been about molding a particular game to our way of doing things. Yes this may not work for the masses but, we've all agreed to the Primer because that's the kind of game play we are looking for. By being a part of TG, and by joining a squad you agree to follow the primer, and one of the prime rules you could call it is you follow your SLs orders regardless if you agree with them or not. This still allows for people to go XP hunting if they so please, but they need to do it on their own or form their own squad with that in mind. Not just tell the SL his order stupid and go do his own thing.

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              • #8
                Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                John I'm not going against the primer, I'm saying this is the issue by fusing the two together. They're at odds with each other, because the basis of the game is progressing your character which is, at times, directly opposed to the primer. You can say it worked in 2142, COD etc, but those games weren't based on the XP development that you can get with a "capture the crown" vs. "capture zurvan and kill all inside".


                These Things We Do... That Other's May Live

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                • #9
                  Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                  Originally posted by Serjikal View Post
                  You can say it worked in 2142, COD etc, but those games weren't based on the XP development that you can get with a "capture the crown" vs. "capture zurvan and kill all inside".
                  Not true at all. There were plenty of times where the orders to my squad were to guard a point which was not contested and may not be contested. Meanwhile the other squads were on contested points racking up the XP from being in combat. We were there in case the other side decided to try to break off from the main fight to score a quick cap. It wasn't glorious, it wasn't all that fun, it netted far less XP, and it is what we did because of the CoC.

                  TG eschews in-game incentives for its own ideals, period. When TG and the in-game incentives are at odds, TG wins. If people don't agree with that, there are plenty of other outfits that will take people chasing incentives.
                  "...the rules aren't there to enumerate what is always correct but what is always wrong..."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                    Playing by the primer > Playing how the majority of the playerbase likes to play.

                    TG has a LONG history of molding games to our playstyle, the only reason that it seems different in PS2 is we dont have our own server, so we cant make sure the rest of the non TG'ers play by the some rules as well. That doesn't mean that the primer is at odds with the game though. And even if it does, reference the first line of this post.

                    Though it doesnt really matter about the "conundrum" regarding PS2 and the primer, CoC always applies, and there are no excuses for squadlings to blatantly disregard orders.
                    May you be covered in the dust of your Rabbi.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                      If I was in the squad when this happened, Xen, I apologize. I know you were SL when I was online around Tarwich, but I was distracted and missed several orders and several times got stuck at a bad spawn before finally being forced to log out.
                      In game handle: Steel Scion
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                      • #12
                        Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                        Sorry to hear about that Xen, I hope it doesn't discourage your efforts in the future.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                          I usually try to find a middle ground... grab the XP when available but have the squad/platoon strike out on their own even if the outcome is in doubt. You'll never win if you don't try.
                          |TG-88th| DaddyOfThree

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                          • #14
                            Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                            Steeler, there was a point that I forgot to update the squad WP, and we got spread out because of it.

                            Sun Tsu once was challenged to take a bunch of harem girls and make them into a fighting force. He took up the challenge, he made three of them squad leaders then ordered them to get in line and to hold up their weapons, which they had been provided. They stood around giggling, not taking him seriously. So he gave the order again, being concise and distinct. They still stood around giggling. So he walked over to the leaders and chopped them down, to which every harem girl snapped to attention, swords at the ready. When he was asked why he did that, he replied, the first time I gave direction, I may not have been clear or concise, so I repeated myself. When the order went unheeded a second time, I knew that my leaders were incompetent, so I made examples of them.

                            While I can not cut down those that fail to follow orders, I can insure that I give clear and concise orders. In in your case Steeler, my orders were not very clear at the time.

                            Steeler no worries, it happens in combat. When we where near Talwich, I was trying to get us out and around the main conflict to hit a flank so, we didn't lose Talwich. I asked everyone to follow me thru this cave I found and only about half the squad made it. Moving on the Iridium and Platinum mines, did take the pressure off Talwich and we didn't lose it. It then setup the Zerg to move on Zuvan, Palisades, and the Crown.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Divide and Conquer requires timing.

                              You all are trying to convince me about TG and the Primer and how it works. I know how it works. I am in total agreeance to how it works, and I don't give a damn that TG is the one that molds itself into the game. Thats not what I'm saying, or expanding on. It is simple reasoning behind why said individual might have left, or giving an explanation to issues (that while might be minimal) still have an impact on how people outside of TG will actually play with us. If they see that all we do is go for the strategic objective, that has a bigger impact on a fight, but not actually be part of the fight, than the only people we'll be left playing with is ourselves.


                              These Things We Do... That Other's May Live

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