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  • Dedicated Armor Squads

    I think the time has come for us to start running dedicated armor squads, when there are enough interested tankers online and a PL who wants to employ those tactics of course.

    I know that sometimes it can be hard to get some guys out of their tank. lol The reverse is also true, I (and others of you out there) have an aversion to them, we don't like being in them, feel confined, or whatever. I for one much prefer to do infantry almost all of the time. But of course I will pull armor if ordered, because we follow a CoC here at TG. But instead, why not let the tankers tank, the infantry guys do infantry, and the pilots fly. This way everyone gets to do what they want to do which furthers their own enjoyment in game. And then as a side bonus we get to operate as a combined arms force, which I think we should be doing anyway.

    Just like Al, Knifewise and others (and sometimes myself also) have started dedicated Air squads (which we run on many nights now btw) I think we should start doing dedicated Armor too. Call it that in the recruiting screen even, we may attract some interested pubbie tankers or even tankers from other Outfits. I would suggest in that case making your squad recruiting private as that does not remove you from the list but rather insures that you have to be chosen from the list (i.e., randoms (who probably do not want to do armor) cannot just join your armor squad by hitting delete).

    I have seen phaelah and Knifewise employ armor to great effect, in concert with infantry and air power. Those who are interested in running armor should SL, but to be the most successful I think we need a PL who also understands the proper application. I like the way Knifewise uses armor, keeping them back or on a high point overlooking the target and shelling them long range, almost more like artillery than armor. Mixing in a couple Skyguards and we can have a friendly AA bubble. Add an ammo sundy and with the engineers you have not only an AA bubble but a forward repair/rearm point for not only the armor but aircraft too, always covered by AA at the center of the armor group. Within this cover the air and armor(artillery) provide, I think our infantry squads would be much more effective. A force multiplier, and also something that I think really builds a sense of esprit de corps amongst the troops, who really feel that they are working together and looking out for one another. On the nights we have done this, I know I certainly felt this way. If we had enough interested tankers, I think one armor squad, one air squad, and two infantry squads makes for a nice well rounded platoon. Each infantry squad can roll in their own sundy, in column with the tanks as mechanized infantry at times, disgorging where the tanks stop a few hundred meters out from the objective and making the final approach on foot. Then our sundies stay safe, protected by all the armor and air a few hundred meters away from the objective.

    Another thing is, those guys who like to tank usually have some (or a lot!) of upgrades into their tanks. I know that I for one have practically zero upgrades into tanks, as I rarely use them and don't enjoy it. Again, let the tankers tank! :)

    I know from playing we have a lot of guys who enjoy tanking. Voidancer, BaconSpanking, phaelah just to name a few. In discussing it I think it was BoozeCruise who said he would be interested also. I would like for all of our guys who are interested in tanking to maybe post up in this thread your name and/or the names of anyone else who you know is interested in tanking. I would then encourage you to get to know the other tankers in the community, and begin forming up dedicated tank squads (at the request of, or after getting permission from, the PL, of course)!

    Thoughts?
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw




  • #2
    Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

    I think dedicated armor would be an excellent idea and might get me back into squad/platoon leading instead of playing with some RL friends I have! Though, we all know tanks work best when complimented with infantry. We would have to work in conjunction with the other squads, but I can see having a dedicated anti-vehicle squad, anti-infantry, anti-air, and probably general purpose all with Ammo sundies to keep them resupplied. :D It will take a lot of coordination though when figuring out who's got a Skyguard and willing to run that all night along with AP/HE Lightnings/Vanguards. It will also take a lot of discipline, but I think it is doable.




    "Certainly, being bombarded with 105 millimeter shells is bad. But the knowledge that you've armed your enemy thus, with your sloth and your ineptitude, unfolds in the heart like a poison." Tycho from Penny Arcade in reference to the nuke in MW2

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    • #3
      Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

      I agree that the squad could work, especially when paired up with a infantry squad. It is a unfortunate reality but when everyone does a galaxy drop or sunderer, armor usually has to play catch up to cross the terrain. Added that to the wait period to respawn for a vehicle, the logistics and timing can be difficult. The skyguard is a excellent idea for top cover, but if infantry has a max around that would work too.

      If for nothing else, would be nice to have a proper gunner that shoots straight.
      "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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      • #4
        Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

        Here's the thing though, Armor should never be leading the attack on anything. The infantry needs to be in front, clearing out HA and Engy. Armor can hit things at range, stay at range. Never understood why everyone rushes their tanks on top of the point, as if they can help with the cap mechanic. I ran an excellent armor PL a month or two back and easily took Crossroads Watchtower from Palisades. I had 2 tank squads and 1 mobile infantry squads. I used a leapfrog technique to move the squads while never letting up on barrage against the enemy. I also advised each SL to call enemy armor targets for their own squads so that they could concentrate fire, overpowering any engy's attempts to repair. It worked wonders and with in 30 minutes most of the armor was still at 100% and 1 infantry squad was able to take the objective. E-male even commented in the Kudo's thread about how effective it worked. The point is, Armor should never be on the base, so playing catch up is moot. If anything the Air drop was poorly timed to take in to account armors travel times.
        sigpic




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        • #5
          Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

          Originally posted by Xen View Post
          Here's the thing though, Armor should never be leading the attack on anything. The infantry needs to be in front, clearing out HA and Engy. Armor can hit things at range, stay at range. Never understood why everyone rushes their tanks on top of the point, as if they can help with the cap mechanic. I ran an excellent armor PL a month or two back and easily took Crossroads Watchtower from Palisades. I had 2 tank squads and 1 mobile infantry squads. I used a leapfrog technique to move the squads while never letting up on barrage against the enemy. I also advised each SL to call enemy armor targets for their own squads so that they could concentrate fire, overpowering any engy's attempts to repair. It worked wonders and with in 30 minutes most of the armor was still at 100% and 1 infantry squad was able to take the objective. E-male even commented in the Kudo's thread about how effective it worked. The point is, Armor should never be on the base, so playing catch up is moot. If anything the Air drop was poorly timed to take in to account armors travel times.
          But sometimes armor needs to lead in order to provide cover for the infantry assault, like attacking Indar Excavation from Quartz Ridge. There's a whole lot of open ground between those two points and a flat out infantry assault would end in disaster. They would also have the air covered. The only thing that can take a few hits are the armored vehicles and even then they need to play it smart. I will agree that armor should never be up capping or next to buildings, it opens you up to the enemy infantry who can C4/rocket you to death without you being able to react. I will say armor should primarily focus other vehicles before focusing on infantry, let the boots on the ground handle the infantry unless opportunities present themselves.

          I remember in the winter, you were able to capture points while staying in your vehicle. Sparhawk can attest to that when we were just driving around in my tank.




          "Certainly, being bombarded with 105 millimeter shells is bad. But the knowledge that you've armed your enemy thus, with your sloth and your ineptitude, unfolds in the heart like a poison." Tycho from Penny Arcade in reference to the nuke in MW2

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          • #6
            Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

            I would counter that with, Armor Gun range is such that they would not have to leave Quartz Ridge very far to be able to provide fire support for the infantry advance. If Infantry Q-Spots targets, armor would easily see where they need to drop shells. And, they should know how to drop their shells on target without the need to be in with the infantry. While the idea that Infantry using the tanks themselves for cover is a good idea, nothing better than the sunders the infantry should be riding in to provide that mobile cover.
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            • #7
              Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

              Armor up front can draw attention away from a fast moving infantry squad. So, set up your firing line with Armor A to create a kill zone, approach with Armor B to draw out defenders, and flank the point with loaded Sunderer C.
              In game handle: Steel Scion
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              • #8
                Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

                Armor dies way to fast to everything to really be leading the charge. My thinking would be to role out Mechanized, Tanks and infantry in Sunderers. Pick your target and then pick a "Fire Support Point". This would be a spot were tanks are in range of the target to suppress it but not so close they are easily defeated by infantry. Drop of a Respawn Sundy with the tanks for infantry fall back. Then have your infantry rush forwards in their Sunderers while tanks continue to suppress and provide fires support. As an alternate to rushing infantry in Sunderers have your infantry move forward on ATVs while Tanks provide support. This will hopefully mitigate losses of infantry if one of the infantry carriers doesn't make it to the objective.

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                • #9
                  Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

                  If you guys have seen what armor squads for folks like the ghosts of the revolution do you know it can be ridiculously effective. The primary thing is to correctly see the land. They basically sit at range kill everything around the point then surround it and pin your guys into the spawn. Simple yet effective. They only need 1 squad of infantry on any type of semi-open terrain.

                  In general, Armor should always be at it's max effective range just like air. Armor should try to get shoulder-to shoulder or at least in a line to present as much effective fire as possible without getting in each other's way or over exposing the line. We ran a nice armor squad last op with AACE where we were able to sit and engage warp-gate towers and an ongoing assault of enemies of all types by staying in a line with the few top gunners bouncing out to run up and down the line healing. Having individual units fall back when damaged and having the Ammo sundy run up and down the line responding to calls for ammo. Anything that came around the corner ended up dead. When an armor piece fell the person spawned back at the nearest armor spawn and rolled up. We held that way 1 squad on a warp-gate exit for as long as we liked. Simple yet effective. No complicated tactics here you just make sure you have a couple of skyguards and the other guys stay anti-vehicle with a top mounted anti-infantry/air + 1 ammo sundy for support and your good to go. The real trick is as a PL understanding where to toss your armor. The best commands are find some high ground in the general area of their right flank and let the SL find the spot that best keeps his tanks alive.

                  -KnifeWise

                  Everything is a system, Break it down.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

                    Some possible effective uses of armor to stimulate discussion:

                    1) Protecting sunderers, guarding rear of the attack.
                    Tanks can stay alive,
                    Use night vision and thermal to kill C4 guys
                    Protect against common lightning attacks vs sundys
                    This tactic may be useful when attacking something the armor cannot get close to in a useful way. This just keeps tanks alive, doing something vital that unfortunately can at times be boring.

                    2) Fire support as per John's post above. Specifically taking out stationary AA and AT turrets is something I find tanks to be good at. That can really help your air and infantry forces.

                    3) More advanced: sudden flanking maneuvers.
                    Quickly get a group of tanks behind the main enemy force, taking out all sunderers, or a group of enemy armor. I've seen this done by our armor to great effect. It can be a deciding, dominating move. But it requires a squad that is on a roll. The squad has to be formed up, alive, and ready to move fast and cohesively. You can never do that right off the bat.

                    4) Patrolling against enemy vehicles in the open spaces between bases. This is the easiest to do with armor, and imo fun. I think it may seem sometimes like you are pulling back too much forces this way, but I say it might be more effective then people think. It creates a safe frontline that can allow friendly§ attacking forces to attack freely without having to backtrack.
                    -FYI This is the strategy we used on Esamir a few weeks ago when I was running a full armor platoon. We were patrolling the ice river. We were able to strike very quickly on a huge part of the map. We had great speed and great striking power, but only because we stayed in the part of the map that was most advantageous to our kind of play.

                    ---

                    *) Tanks should almost never be on point for an attack. I think of them like cavalry in Napoleonic times. If you send them in first, you will lose a big part, or all of your cavalry. The only time a cavalry can attack (first), is when the enemy is not ready for you.

                    The battle was often decided by a cavalry charge at the right time. THe cav consisted of elite units, expensive to equip and maintain. But on it's own, the cavalry was weak for the cost compared to say... musketeers, or spearman.

                    Tanks maybe shouldn't feel that weak, but they certainly do in PS2. Unless you are pretty much in the open plains of Esamir an infantry group will whittle down an armor platoon and then crush the leftovers.

                    So I find it useful to treat them as horses. They can trample one enemy by surprise, but will get bogged down and killed by 5 or 10.
                    ...

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                    • #11
                      Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

                      Hmm, I clearly put my discussion of armor in the wrong forum (I put it in tactics and strategy today), please move it to this forum if needed.

                      Good discussion guys!
                      The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

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                      • #12
                        Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

                        The purpose of this post was originally supposed to be a gauge of interest for Armor, as well as an argument for getting those interested in doing Armor in dedicated squads, so that tankers can tank and those interested in doing air or infantry can do so, without having to do what they don't enjoy doing. Also, for interested tankers to identify and get to know one another, and promote the idea of dedicated armor squads like we currently have dedicated air squads. It turned out to be a tactics discussion, but I suppose that promotes interest in Armor in it's own way, as the proper employment of armor (like air) also requires some basic understanding of armor tactics by the (potentially) infantry focused platoon leader(s). :)
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                        • #13
                          Re: Dedicated Armor Squads

                          Actually Garthra I think this discussion would fit better in the tactics section perhaps.

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