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  • Incoming revive nerf?

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c...e_nerf_on_pts/

    Apparently on the PTS the revive window has been shortened to 30s, after which revives are impossible. You also can't sit on a revive request as long, 10s maximum there.

    I think this could be a positive change. It sounds like it'll make attrition a more viable thing, and medics will HAVE to be on the ball. The window for reviving an entire wave of troops with a revive grenade will also be substantially smaller. That means that if you put someone down, they're much more likely to stay down unless they've got a medic right there. Right now it sometimes feels like the only way to knock a group of people down is to just overrun them and take their current position, and that's just not possible a lot of the time, especially when you're outnumbered or can't really vacate your current position.

    It's not a particularily massive change, though... not like the original 15s that got pushed to the PTS (and then was changed fairly quickly). I think what it'll mostly effect is those Bio Lab grinds and big, costly, failed pushes that could previously be completely restarted with a revive grenade. If you take down a close quarters charge full of people now, less of them will be revivable when the revive grenades come.

    We'll adapt to this pretty well, I think. If anything, attentive medics will be even MORE of an advantage to an organized team, and less of an advantage to one that's spread out or uncooperative.




  • #2
    Re: Incoming revive nerf?

    I don't see this impacting the game much. If your with a group of friendlies you should be fine regardless; however, I think we'll see that this punishes slightly lone wolfs and those who play for their K/D R.

    The title freaked me out though, I thought it was going to with the time to revive somebody or decrease the amount of revive grenades (I run with the max of 4).

    “Big Brother is Watching You.”
    ― George Orwell, "1984"

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    • #3
      Re: Incoming revive nerf?

      Huh, not as much as it probably should be, but it's a start. I agree, lone wolfs and revive grenades way after you think you've wiped everyone out are being punished. If a Medic in an organised squad takes longer than 30s then something went wrong anyway.

      Remember to call out your deaths! It's no use complaining it's been a while without a revive as that may be the first they've heard of it. Anyone can get distracted by comms / enemies / lots of deaths.



      |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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      • #4
        Re: Incoming revive nerf?

        Yeah, this didn't strike me as much of a nerf to proper play, though there will be more instances where squad members will be forced to use a hard spawn to regroup, and less MAXes getting revived (since they were the most likely to wait for a medic).



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        • #5
          Re: Incoming revive nerf?

          I also wish they'd encourage a bit more use of cover and less spam by doing something like these:

          Slightly reduce the decrease in revive time afforded by certs.
          Create a slow effect on the Medic while reviving.
          Make up for some of the certs by reducing this slow effect, but not entirely. Roughly 50% slow, reduced to 25%.

          Overheat mechanic on revive tool so you can revive 2 to 3 people in a row, then have to wait. Maybe ~15 seconds of healing too.

          Once revived, shields take 3-5 seconds to start recharging rather than immediately.
          Possibly slow the revived player somewhat for 3 seconds.

          MAXes have to pay significant resources to accept a revive.

          Revives earn 25%-40% XP initially, and the rest only if the revived player survives for 10 seconds.
          The percentage of these "successful revives" becomes a new stat, and is displayed whenever a Medic tries to revive you.

          Possibly, each time you are unsuccessfully revived (die within 10 seconds) you take 50% longer to revive again. Maximum of 100% gain.


          I'm slowly posting some of my ideas on SOE's forums, so let me know what you think.



          |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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          • #6
            Re: Incoming revive nerf?

            "Possibly, each time you are unsuccessfully revived (die within 10 seconds) you take 50% longer to revive again. Maximum of 100% gain."


            This can be a bad thing for medics. I would rather revive someone with a short timer instead, but its hard to tell who has the longer revive timer.

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            • #7
              Re: Incoming revive nerf?

              Originally posted by MrJengles View Post

              Revives earn 25%-40% XP initially, and the rest only if the revived player survives for 10 seconds.
              The percentage of these "successful revives" becomes a new stat, and is displayed whenever a Medic tries to revive you.

              No; 40% of 75 = 30; 12% of a cert. Medics, along with engineers, need more options to increase cert revenue to make them more appealing so everyone doesn't play LA, Infil, or Heavy.

              “Big Brother is Watching You.”
              ― George Orwell, "1984"

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              • #8
                Re: Incoming revive nerf?

                Rather than an increased revive time (which, as ghost points out, has some readability issues for the medics) I'd almost rather have a short timer after a revive in which a kill is permanent, so if you pick someone up in a dangerous situation and they immediately get hit they have to have to use a hard spawn. I remember Project Reality had a (much harsher) version of the mechanic, with a 2 minute timer that better fit the slow pace and

                I generally like the direction you're thinking, Jengles. I'd love to see more logistics dependence and potential for meaningful attrition. I like the idea of an overheat for the med-gun, too... it applies an interesting constraint in a more elegant way than ammo would, and also scales directly to the longer max revive time. I'm not sure about making the MAX pay resources for a revive, but that's mainly because resources are currently a wonky mechanic and MAXes are already super expensive. I think I'm inclined towards it, though.



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                • #9
                  Re: Incoming revive nerf?

                  Originally posted by penandpencilman View Post
                  No; 40% of 75 = 30; 12% of a cert. Medics, along with engineers, need more options to increase cert revenue to make them more appealing so everyone doesn't play LA, Infil, or Heavy.
                  Does 75XP accurately reflect the benefit to the team of reviving someone who immediately drops dead as their body is being camped?

                  Keep in mind that this does not mean you earn significantly less XP, as the vast majority of revives would still be worth the full 75. In fact, I was thinking that particular change would be very similar to the one SOE made about kills only being worth 25xp if they spawned in the last 10 seconds (and haven't earnt any XP yet).

                  Also, if there is a problem with current Medic XP rates there would still be room for increasing the total XP, which is different to splitting up when you are given it.

                  Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
                  Rather than an increased revive time (which, as ghost points out, has some readability issues for the medics) I'd almost rather have a short timer after a revive in which a kill is permanent, so if you pick someone up in a dangerous situation and they immediately get hit they have to have to use a hard spawn. I remember Project Reality had a (much harsher) version of the mechanic, with a 2 minute timer that better fit the slow pace and

                  I generally like the direction you're thinking, Jengles. I'd love to see more logistics dependence and potential for meaningful attrition. I like the idea of an overheat for the med-gun, too... it applies an interesting constraint in a more elegant way than ammo would, and also scales directly to the longer max revive time. I'm not sure about making the MAX pay resources for a revive, but that's mainly because resources are currently a wonky mechanic and MAXes are already super expensive. I think I'm inclined towards it, though.
                  Mmm, I wasn't sure I liked that one due to Ghost's concern. I was looking for a mechanic that would cause Medics an aversion to reviving players under fire - in addition to simply reducing the reward if they did so. I don't think placing the burden on the player being revived - when they don't know the situation as well as the Medic - is fair. Nor do I think resources should be involved in something so vital to the game play.

                  MAXes are currently the only resource that isn't consumed either from use or death. No matter how many times you kill a MAX it can come back as shiny as it was to start with, which I find unfair and against tactics. Considering if MAXes were treated as vehicles would mean pulling the MAX again for a full resource cost, isn't paying a reduced amount for a revive reasonable? The initial cost could always be reduced slightly (to account for ~1 expected death). This would also fit a bit better with the more consistent resource system SOE have planned.



                  |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Incoming revive nerf?

                    I think the decreased timer on revives was successful. Long distractions or trying to make my way across the battle can cost a revive but in general squad play hasn't been hurt at all.


                    I'll post my revive ideas soon.

                    I also wish they'd encourage a bit more use of cover and less spam by doing something like these:

                    Slightly reduce the decrease in revive time afforded by certs.
                    Create a slow effect on the Medic while reviving.
                    Make up for some of the certs by reducing this slow effect, but not entirely. Roughly 50% slow, reduced to 25%.

                    Overheat mechanic on revive tool so you can revive 2 to 3 people in a row, then have to wait. Maybe ~15 seconds of healing too.

                    Once revived, shields take 3-5 seconds to start recharging rather than immediately.
                    Possibly slow the revived player somewhat for 3 seconds.

                    MAXes have to pay significant resources to accept a revive.

                    Revives earn 25%-40% XP initially, and the rest only if the revived player survives for 10 seconds.
                    The percentage of these "successful revives" becomes a new stat, and is displayed whenever a Medic tries to revive you.

                    Possibly, each time you are unsuccessfully revived (die within 10 seconds) you take 50% longer to revive again. Maximum of 100% gain.
                    Gonna add these:

                    -Revive screen should show how much health you will be revived at, as you currently have no way of knowing how many certs the Medic has spent.

                    -Speeding up a revive by activating your heal should preferably be removed, as revives are already extremely quick. The only way it could be kept and balanced is to increase revive times (across all cert levels), increase the drain on the heal ability when speeding up revives, let players start it before hand and add this info to a tool tip. It doesn't really add anything to the gameplay to be worthwhile.

                    -I've heard the suggestion for knifing bodies so that they can't be revived but I'm not sure whether I like it. Maybe if it took ~3 seconds to do so it couldn't be used mid-combat, only as a way to stop medics rushing in or using revive grenades much later. Or is that part of the gameplay to be embraced? This would be a bit of a repetitive mechanic also.


                    [MENTION=56436]ghostshooter101[/MENTION] How about giving the bodies different icons to show their revive state?

                    I actually quite like the permanent death [MENTION=16189]starstriker1[/MENTION] but I'm worried it's a step too far for even the more teamwork oriented outfits. Worse, so many new players will complain about accepting a revive only to become permanently dead moments later. Convincing SOE would be even trickier.

                    Nevertheless, there's always a chance - assuming I can have any impact at all. I'm just going to post some ideas and a middle ground option (my favorite) so everyone can decide for themselves how far they want to move in that direction.

                    1) Increasing revive times - Unsuccessful revives (dying within 5 seconds of a revive) causes your body to become increasingly difficult to resurrect. The first unsuccessful death will increase the revive timer by 0.75s and place a yellow marker on the corpse to alert Medics. The second unsuccessful death will increase the revive timer by 1.5s and place a red marker on the corpse. A successful revive will reset the revive timer.

                    2) Permanent/unrevivable death - Players are more susceptible to permanent damage for a short period after being revived. If killed within 5 seconds after being revived the player cannot be revived again and must respawn.

                    3) Middle ground - Players are more susceptible to permanent damage for a short period after being revived. The first unsuccessful revive will increase the revive timer by 0.75s and place a yellow marker on the corpse to alert Medics. If revived from this state only to be killed again within 5 seconds the player cannot be revived and must respawn. A successful revive will reset the revive timer.

                    Comments welcomed.
                    Last edited by MrJengles; 04-19-2014, 04:41 PM.



                    |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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