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  • What is TG really about?

    In my mind TactiaclGamer planetside is supposed to bring military sim-ish tactics to the futuristic pew pew you only live forever fest that is planetside. Yet as of late more the 90% of the squads I have seen are less then military sim. This includes to a great degree my own squads, for I have been on a quest to develop the fastest most efficent and effective style of play possible.... yes when im leading the squad is fast paced tight and quite effective but it has boiled down to having a fire team of 2 men in a gal for air support as they warp people directly onto the flag and the squad locks it down. Once we cap we redeploy into a moving gal if we dont have a max and drop onto the otherside of the continent. Then back again to back cap a zerg... even though we have gotten it to where when we are wiped , its typically due to a deficit of between 60-70 percent enemy pop advantage its not exactly military sim strategic play that I feel tg is about.

    Yeah maybe we are evolving, but personally I think we should still have an ode to the old and remember our roots. I think that we should actually Implement and practice some of the great wealth of tactics that we have on these forums and get them off the theory board. I think we should get back to being More tactical esque.

    So maybe i'm offending some people and or am completely wrong but as for me i am going to minimallize use of my loved space whale and instead of have a single squad move people into squads of 4 so i have self sufficent fire teams to move around, I will try to provide a more supportive role for our boys in blue and get back to maximizing use of the contour of the land while we bound around. Up front I am going to apologize to those in my squads for we may be doing tactics just for the sake of doing tactics in the beginning but I will have to work out the kinks to be more efficient later.

    So to wrap this up, have any of you guys noticed this or am I imagining things? Do you guys find that we dont use what is on this forum enough or have i just not noticed people use the tactics from here? And lastly squad lead what do you think about making an attempt to be more TG? Or am i just imagining a tg style that isnt supposed to be.
    SPEAK UP! and lets combat the fog of war together.

  • #2
    Re: What is TG really about?

    There are a lot of people here who'd appreciate squads that use more real world military tactics, and definitely bringing more of the existing tactics from the forums to the light of day! Have at 'er!

    While my own involvement in the game has been pretty sporadic of late due to crunching hard on getting my game out the door, I have started to wonder if maybe we're running on autopilot a little, falling on old habits, playing and leading a little more lazily instead of using more disciplined approaches or newer tactics. It's very easy for this kind of observation to be the result of any number of cognitive biases, though.



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    • #3
      Re: What is TG really about?

      I am a milsim thumper, but I believe we have to tread a fine line here. I think the tactics you speak of are needed, but on PS2s terms. My short time playing I have noticed several different tactics that resemble milsim, but notice the "usual thing".

      In one session, there was a thought at the SL and PL levels about flanking behind and caping an objective while the brunt of the Blue's on the continante contined to fight from the other direction, and I think would have confused the opfor just enough to have the main force get a foothold, but that tactic was not taking, other we just opened a new front on the same objective. I have no clue as to what goes on PL and above, but is there much convo as to what is needed where?






      "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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      • #4
        Re: What is TG really about?

        Our TG squads are becoming more casual simply due to lack of proper leadership on a standard basis. This is of course an over simplification.

        My point is this. Our veteran TG members are increasingly absent or not willing to lead. This leaves the more novice or brand new to step up and keep squads running and even mentor the newest members in the TG way. Simply put I feel this is the blind leading the blind a bit. This is simply my opinion.

        That said. Whats happening is the TG way as a veteran sees it is likely to be different than the newer members see it. When this occurs on an ever more regular basis it becomes the norm. Meaning the culture of TG Planetside changes. I have already spoken to at least one new person and asked if they read the Primer and their answer was the following: "You mean the one I have seen violated on a regular basis since I joined? Yes." I heard that and was almost floored.

        I have seen more casual squads over the last couple of weeks than anything else. This seems to occur because a leader has to step off and someone who didn't want to lead ends up leading because they didn't want to see the squad disbanded the most. Another way this occurs is someone who didn't really want to lead but didn't really want to role alone starts an intended "casual" squad. In these casual squads, "Do what you want" is often the norm and if this is the normal kind of squad that the newer members join, that is what they will perceive as the TG way and thus the culture changes and many of us find our selves in an outfit different than the one we joined.

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        • #5
          Re: What is TG really about?

          That's alarming, but not totally surprising. Lack of leadership candidates and leadership burnout have been some of our biggest issues for a long time, and with Randy's absolutely herculean shoes left unfilled now that he had to reprioritize real life things instead of playing Planetside 2 all the time there's been a noticeable void.

          However, If there are active primer violations going on, especially if they have to do with points 1 and 2 (Mature Community and Mutual Respect, respectively), then that's a HUGE concern. Vlad, did this guy elaborate on what they meant?

          (I say points 1 and 2 especially because I feel that violations of point 3--real world tactics/non-exploitative tactics--is a knowledge problem we can train, but 1 and 2 violations are attitude problems that need to be terminated with extreme prejudice before they poison the whole community)



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          • #6
            Re: What is TG really about?

            Speaking to the elephant in the room, Starstriker1 voiced what I've personally seen as the biggest single change in the atmosphere in TG while in game. Randy and his presence, agree with it or not, was something that kept the vibe strong. He was specifically why I joined Planestside TG in the beginning, and without him or anyone else able / willing to put out the same efforts on a regular basis our general structure has faltered.

            Obviously this isn't all due to one player's absence, but it's an indicator of what's missing in our gameplay. What made Randy so effective at what he did, I believe, was his consistency and persistence. You could almost always, spare some late night ops after several alerts, see and hear him pushing our squads to play the TG way; it's an infectious sort of enthusiasm that we've been missing. We still have several excellent and sound minded leaders in the outfit still, but I don't feel us connecting like we used to. It leaves the single squad or platoon leader feeling up against the task of motivating the whole outfit by themselves everytime they take up the role, and that only leads to a quicker burnout.

            Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just my perspective on the situation.

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            • #7
              Re: What is TG really about?

              Agreed. I have noticed huge differences in the way TG runs over the last year and a half, for better and for worst.

              I'm partly to blame, but I have noticed much more whining, more complaining and less professionalism throughout TG squads. While PS2 can be very competitive at times; if you die, get over it and move on, you can respawn again in 15 seconds. Read this

              Big Brother is Watching You.
              ― George Orwell, "1984"

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              • #8
                Re: What is TG really about?

                Randy put an extraordinary amount of work into the game, and quite frankly, I don't ever expect a single person to fill that gap nor should they (not even Randy if he comes back, there's a reason he burnt out hard a few times!). We need to figure out a way to maintain our standards and top-notch quality of play without putting the burden on the same few people.

                Part of that is cultural. We need to rebuild a culture of expecting the best from all of our members, and not be tolerant of our core principles being forgotten. That takes attention, energy, and a bit of courage. I know I'VE shied away from calling people out on occasion because I didn't want to rock the boat or be the bad guy (I've regretted it every time, so I'm trying to be much better about it). It's something worth working at, though, and setting a good example--and not tolerating bad ones--will help create the culture we're looking for... over time. It won't be fixed quickly, it's got to happen over the long term. Nevertheless, I encourage everyone to set a good example, ask others to set a good example, and call out bad example--either to the person in question, their immediate superior in-game, or to the NCOs/Officers/Admins.

                The other part is just shear manpower. Having enough leaders/good examples on at all times is HARD (Randy only did it because I'm pretty sure he's half energizer bunny). Creating the culture we want will help this by ensuring that a larger percentage of the outfit will make good ambassadors, but there's no getting past having enough solid leaders. We simply need more people willing to take these high-visibility positions and give everyone the TG experience we all came for. That means convincing more people to step up in the first place, encouraging them to stay and keep at it, AND train them or give them feedback so that they can reach the level of quality we want. That's all very hard stuff, and will take an extra effort.

                Some thoughts along those lines:
                * More events like the 30 minute SL rotation that a recent AAR talked about, in TG-only squads. That helps encourage people to get their feet wet
                * Experienced SLs can ask people to run fireteams or separate elements of their squad. It's a lower pressure job so the barrier of entry is lower.
                * Active training courses. I know Garthra is working on something like that, but I dunno where it's at
                * Experienced leaders should offer to ride shotgun for new SLs or PLs. Let someone less experienced take point, but with the assurance that you're there to correct them if they make a mistake.

                edit: and another
                * Run squads so well and so tightly that people won't settle for less. When the high standard isn't available, they'll be more inclined to step up and show everyone how it's done.



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                • #9
                  Re: What is TG really about?

                  So the question is who is going to grasp the wheel and steer the ship? Who are the people that are going to be putting in the extra effort to make this happen? I ask this because from my perspective our current active leaders including my self are usually only mustering up semi casual cert excavation drives due to being plagued by severe burn out. I don't have the faintest idea as to who has the energy to be putting in EXTRA effort for this cause when even though I made this thread I am unsure as to if taking steps backwards is the right direction. As penny said, tg has changed for BETTER and worse... The raw TG milsim way, at least against the lazer parade hordes of planetside really kind of sucks for getting anything done. What we need is a game plan for a course correction, something that will give tg a distinct feel we can be proud of but use our unique tactics to be efficent in accomplishing the goal effectively while staying competitive instead of using tactics just to be cute. Then we need people who are going to follow it through.
                  SPEAK UP! and lets combat the fog of war together.

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                  • #10
                    Re: What is TG really about?

                    What I am hearing is that it is mostly due to squad or platoon leadership. Not surprising. TG has a few inspired leaders, who are a joy to work with, and this leads back to the issue that is discussed ad nauseum: how to get others to lead so the great leaders don't burn out.

                    Having volunteered to lead a few times as a fng, I offer these observations.

                    1: being sl with some great leaders in your squad is daunting to say the least. You are aware of doing an inferior job, and hope that the eye rolling isn't too bad with the more experienced members.

                    2: because you are still learning as a new sl, it is less embarrassing to run it as an intentionally casual platoon, because that lowers the expectation level and makes it easier to lead.

                    One solution to this might be to have a new person be sl with more experienced people free to make suggestions. My mental model is a new lieutenant in charge with an experienced NCO offering g some guidance. Not hand holding, but rather suggesting assault options or tactical options.

                    This may not wash with everyone, and a squad by committee downsides will not happen as long as it is recognize that sl has final authority.
                    Communications, Cohesion, Confidence.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What is TG really about?

                      I am going to get this discussion going with the Admin team. Please keep your thought coming it is good to have many different opinions.

                      I for one see what you are talking about and my one observation that I made this weekend is the "Casual Squad" is what I think is killing the TG feel. TG is about "Mature Teamwork, Tight comms procedures, Real world tactics, attention to SL/PL orders at all times!" If we are lenient on our comms, and then are running a TG only squad we don't run the same. When we are open to the public I think we keep tighter control.
                      i sometimes feel it is easier to lead a blueberry squad than a high rank squad of TG players. Low level blueberries will follow direction better because they don't know anything. We all think we know everything the SL/PL wants to do before they even say anything:icon_lol: And 90% of the time we are probably right....BUT we should be following the SL/PL lead instead of showing enough initiative that the SL/PL is following us instead. This is not a criticism of anyone and I am guilty of this as well! This is just a condition of us all getting more experienced.


                      I will discuss all this with the Admin/NCO's and then I am sure we will have a gameplan to share with you shortly. Please be patient we all have jobs and kids so it might be a few days. (I know I know that is an eternity it Araxium time.) but please bear with us!

                      In the meantime how about we cut out the :"Casual Squads" and go back to open tight TG squads for the time being?

                      Thanks for all the excellent input and we'll get back to you all soon. Todd
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: What is TG really about?

                        I agree with Star, there should not be a single individual who should step up because the same thing will happen with them, they will burn out and we will back to square one. I for one is starting to feel the "burn out" feeling. I've been squad leading a lot lately (don't get me wrong I like to do it just not all the time) but sometimes its because no one else wanted to step up, or I get asked to as soon as I log on. For this reason I've started running open squads with the hopes of getting some new recruits.

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                        • #13
                          Re: What is TG really about?

                          We have a lot of regulars that won't step up to lead. I play roughly two days a week and I feel like I'm leading just about every time I'm on. I figure I will take squad lead, because I would rather play with you guys then run solo (or with another outfit). I personally would rather follow and not lead all the time, because it’s easier. It's a stress relief, but when I'm leading, it feels more like work. Take yesterday, I lead for close to 6 hours, because no one else wanted to. After the 4 hour point, I was exhausted of leading. I asked the squad numerous times if someone wanted to take over, which was TG only, but no one wanted to step up and take it. Eventually, someone stepped up to take the platoon, and I gave alpha to whoever was #2 in the squad (they said to just leave and they will sort it out). I then logged off, feeling like I just worked for the past 6 hours.


                          My only solution is to force regulars into squad leading. Maybe this Friday night (only night I can usually commit to gaming), we can do a squad lead rotation. Anyone that has a TG tag and microphone will be requested to squad lead one 30 minute shift. We will then have at least one experienced squad lead in each platoon to assist as much as possible. To add to it, we can even do a Platoon Lead rotation between all the experienced squad leads every hour to keep the Platoon Leads fresh. Would anyone be interested in this?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What is TG really about?

                            I'd be up for that. Even if we only ran one squad in the platoon that way that'd be a great start.



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What is TG really about?

                              Originally posted by Toddshooter View Post
                              I am going to get this discussion going with the Admin team. Please keep your thought coming it is good to have many different opinions.

                              I for one see what you are talking about and my one observation that I made this weekend is the "Casual Squad" is what I think is killing the TG feel. TG is about "Mature Teamwork, Tight comms procedures, Real world tactics, attention to SL/PL orders at all times!" If we are lenient on our comms, and then are running a TG only squad we don't run the same. When we are open to the public I think we keep tighter control.
                              i sometimes feel it is easier to lead a blueberry squad than a high rank squad of TG players. Low level blueberries will follow direction better because they don't know anything. We all think we know everything the SL/PL wants to do before they even say anything:icon_lol: And 90% of the time we are probably right....BUT we should be following the SL/PL lead instead of showing enough initiative that the SL/PL is following us instead. This is not a criticism of anyone and I am guilty of this as well! This is just a condition of us all getting more experienced.


                              I will discuss all this with the Admin/NCO's and then I am sure we will have a gameplan to share with you shortly. Please be patient we all have jobs and kids so it might be a few days. (I know I know that is an eternity it Araxium time.) but please bear with us!

                              In the meantime how about we cut out the :"Casual Squads" and go back to open tight TG squads for the time being?

                              Thanks for all the excellent input and we'll get back to you all soon. Todd
                              Thank you todd, I do hope this thread does something for the community, as one of the most active members I do have the time to help but I am also part of the newer crowd and am unfamiliar with exactly how the older squads ran so I dont think i can really be of much use -.-
                              SPEAK UP! and lets combat the fog of war together.

                              Comment

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