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Excellent building hold by DD12

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  • [VIDEO] Excellent building hold by DD12

    Found this (coarse language):



    Excellent hold versus overwhelming odds, with good communication once it got hot. One thing I noticed is that they split up the double-deck with balcony building into a "primary" and "secondary", which I believe means point room and non point room on the second floor. This lets them make callouts to stairs and windows in specific rooms, for both enemies, teammate down reports, and res nade targets. They bounce around a lot, especially the medics (arguably the people who SHOULD be bouncing around), but when it gets hot they try and hold three people at every stairwell while the wandering members cover the myriad upper-floor entries to the building.

    We do good room holds already, but I think there's a few things to steal from here; the primary/secondary designation is smart and we should definitely use that, and, especially in that building, there's a lot of value in having part of the squad bounce and cover while the other stays fixed on their sectors. This game rarely provides singular choke points to manage... that building in particular has 7 (!) openings to watch from the second floor, which is going to spread any squad thin especially given how dominant the stair access ways are, and therefore how much attention they demand. You can't AFFORD to have 5 of your guys watching all the other angles during a big push.... especially not when you also need medics watching the team.




  • #2
    Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

    Holding rooms will probably even easier once the auto turrets come on-line. Just setup a bunch of them at every chokepoint and all your engineers will be free to engage elsewhere.

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    • #3
      Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

      No doubt it'll be a boon! Actual application is going to be heavily dependent on implementation, though.

      Holding rooms isn't "easy" though, as much practice as we've had at it. Dealing with MAXes is a constant issue, and most buildings are designed with a multitude of entrances that makes it difficult to pin down and very easy to get flanked.



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      • #4
        Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

        Originally posted by Assault9 View Post
        Holding rooms will probably even easier once the auto turrets come on-line. Just setup a bunch of them at every chokepoint and all your engineers will be free to engage elsewhere.
        To be fair with SOE, you never know if at release vehicles and items are going to be Over Powered, or under powered. Valk Under powered at release, Harrasser over powered at release. It was at least 2 or three major updates before the harrasser was at the correct level of power. I think (and hope) We'll see some Valkyrie buffs soon, So Im very weary of auto turrets.

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        • #5
          Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

          Also I had to read in to your post a bit I agree.
          -I think TG as an outfit should set up a simple way to to create fire teams. That way we can quickly assign who does what in these situations. for instance squad numbers 7-12 would be bouncing between the balconies and roof tops and numbers 1-6 will be gaurding the two stairwells.

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          • #6
            Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

            The best way I've found to do that is "odds and evens" since it's more likely to get an even split in a squad that isn't full and is relatively easy to communicate. Still very awkward to use in practice, but often better than swinging around a full squad when half of one will do.



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            • #7
              Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

              I've always been a little hesitant using groups of numbers. For example 1-5 move to green smoke and 6-12 to red smoke. Then I realize all the medics and engies are 1-5 and all the HA and maxes are 6-12 lololol

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              • #8
                Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                Some thoughts about the video.

                1. Half of their squad were Combat Medics.
                It is normal for our "Full" squads to have 3 or 4 medics. But we normal only ask people to change class only when doing certain tactics. Like when we go AV heaves or Engineers, these are time that SL will ask to change. But when we go back to AI, more often than not, no class change is called unless we only have one Medic. I have been in a squad that I was the only Medic and, that was Okay-ish when we are not close to the enemy, but then we move on to Cap the next base with out changing I was under huge presser to do my job. If I was half as good as Alex, then I would have been fine. Now don't get confused, SL will a lot of the time, call out for Weapon change for different range, but this is not the same as Class change. (Or at least in my limited experience)

                2. They were only relying on their Medics and spawn beacon to get them back into the fight.
                When we are spearheading a operation to take a base, we normally will have some spawn logistics. One or two people in a full squad, are watching over that spawn so that blueberries are able to help. But in reality, that just kind of add a buffer. With that many Medics, just think how long a squad could stay alive.

                3. They would fire from the stairs.
                In most cases, we tend to just hang out on one level. Now this is not a bad thing and helps people like Medics, do their jobs better. But This game is not like real life, and the person who comes around the corner in this, has a slight time advantage. What they where able to do is interrupt the normal build up of enemy's on the base floor. It was so affactive that for almost the whole video, I thought that they where fighting less people than they were. When one of our squads gets killed, it normally has to do with a Rush of people that have built up on the lower floors and crashing through our defense. So while it can be more deadly to expose yourself to the enemy it can, if done right, throw off the whole attack and keep the enemy guessing.
                "When attacking a stronger opponent, Attack swiftly and with full force at their weakest point— take them out before the can react, or Fall back and engage in guerrilla actions,” Spartan 117.

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                • #9
                  Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                  There might be some benefit to upping our medic ratio. As you say, our usual medic count of around 2 works fine in medium or long range engagements, but up close the attrition rate skyrockets. When kitting out for close range ops we should really consider bringing 3-4 every time, since in close quarters the medic remains a very capable combat class and it'll help avoid the dreaded medic wipe.

                  I'm not 100% on firing from the stairs--it is a VERY dangerous place to revive someone from--but constant movement and engaging the enemy from unpredictable angles is a very good thing. We tend to be very static. It has its place, don't get me wrong, but gives the enemy a lot of time to plan and organize. Our enemies need more chaos in their lives, and we should be happy to help them out. Doing so while maintaining cohesion and keeping everyone easily revivable is the trick. This particular objective was also one of the reasons I've been thinking about ways to better integrate light assaults into our squads.

                  I did like how they mostly held their defense on the first floor until the enemy started attacking in force, then they tightened the perimeter.



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                  • #10
                    Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                    Most of the time there are a lot of grenades going off at the bottom of the stairs that is one thing that makes it dangerous. If we are running multiple medics, some with bandoleer kitted and some with flak, then conceivably the flax medics can be in charge of reviving at the bottom of the stairs and the bandoleer can be contingency. You can revive people at the bottom with full med gun from halfway down the stairway. I don't know the exact math on surviving a grenade with full flak, but I know I can shake off most grenades as a flak medic.

                    Never Beat Ninja Gaiden

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                    • #11
                      Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                      -Quick Thought, Perhaps Anti Infantry engi Turrets could help to provide more cover on the base level of a floor. Often times Ill set up my engi turret around the corner when were under fire in order to provide my squad with some additional cover.
                      -Also from what Ive seen of the spitfires Expect to use them as a sort of secondary gun while the main damage dealer is your primary weapon, their movement is slow and good for getting that innitial damage off but in circular areas they can easily be outflanked, Halls and stairs Im imagining will be better turret placement for these guys. Emp's also kill these guys for about ten seconds.
                      -A tactic I once used back in my Vanu days to some good extent was simply having a far off High optics sniper infiltrator calling the shots to let you know whats coming from outside. I got lucky but I think I managed that time to hold off about five guys for a good quarter to half the time I was defending with one beacon spawn

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                      • #12
                        Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                        I see a few different possibilities for the spitfires:
                        • The spitfires are rugged, dangerous and slow-turning - In this scenario you set them up in dominant positions as area denial, and spend a lot of your effort on keeping them up and occasionally supporting them.
                        • The spitfires are fragile and not a dominant head-on threat - With turrets like this you can't use them as damage soaks or front line defense. Instead, you place them in supporting positions--corners, further back, low ground with limited sightlines where they won't be expected--and use them as a supplement to your own weapons. They then provide a crossfire, distraction, and a little extra damage. This is how I used to play TF2 with an engineer mini-turret. Stick the turret where the enemy doesn't expect them and bait them into a firefight with the comparatively weak engineer class.


                        I think the latter is more likely, to be honest. It overlaps less with the AI MANA turret, which is already a monster in a head on fight. If I'm right and that's the turret we get, a good place for them would be at the bottom of the stairs hidden in the corner behind a locker where they start pinging the enemy in the back right when they start marching up the stairs. Another good role would be covering balconies or rooftop entrances (or even the roof itself) to mitigate the risk of lone light assaults tearing up our flank.



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                        • #13
                          Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                          I actually watched a video featuring the spitfires and if you run basically in a circle around them you can outflank them and knife them to death they are nothing like team fortress 2 turrets. They turn very slowly But have quick time to kill so in essence the farther away you are from them the harder it is for said infantry player to stay alive, the closer the easier it is to flank them because they dont have the ability to spin very fast. So I think your first guess is more acurate I think the devs said they have something like the health of two infantry players. Also currently on test servers a decoy grenade actually distracts them. (Im gonna hate these things so mutch for building breaches)...

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                          • #14
                            Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                            I would be surprised if they went with the slow and hard hitting, but we will see. A side from the two types mentioned above, there are several things that I really want to know about these turrets.

                            1. What Range can they detected/attack an enemy player
                            2. Can they see infiltrators that are cloaked
                            3. Can they see through smoke
                            4. How well they can track
                            5. Can they be hacked

                            If they can see over a long range, (Which I don't think that they will, Or they will do little to no damage at say 100m) then you get open ground wars. I would really like this idea, but I could see this being abused with a whole squad placing these down. If they can't do damage over range, than I see them being used very well at choke points. Also, if these are like normal Mana Turrets, then Rep Sunderers will heal them. All of these things can greatly change how we would be able to deploy them.
                            "When attacking a stronger opponent, Attack swiftly and with full force at their weakest point— take them out before the can react, or Fall back and engage in guerrilla actions,” Spartan 117.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Excellent building hold by DD12

                              FROM WHAT IVE SEEN IN A TESTING VIDEO
                              1 I believe its either 30 or 50 Meteres
                              2 No they cant see cloaked infils even at running pace
                              3 (dont know)
                              4 (Hard to describe) Slow enough to outrun them if you travel in a circle, but fast enough to where if you can outrun their tracking its just barely. The devs described it at as any infantry member with half a brain can figure out how to deal with the turrets
                              5 Thought I saw that the devs said they were experimenting with making them hackable but some sort of glitch made it extremely hard to implement. and so they removed the feature Its a possibility in the future.
                              https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...urrets.209913/
                              All info comes from here
                              also If you want to see what the turrets are like in action heres another link... So happy I can post links now
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMAuDqjxMFM

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