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"Suppressing Fire!!!"

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  • "Suppressing Fire!!!"

    "Suppression I understand is not as much of a concern in a game where you are regenerated, but the penalty of losing squad cohesion should make suppression have some effect." [MENTION=38102]Unkl[/MENTION]

    "The bit about suppression is interesting. Traditional suppression of the kind I remember working in Project Reality relies on that hail of bullets being so disorienting and so inherently lethal to stick your head out into that you're unwilling to expose yourself as long as it continues. Planetside provides both a substantial health pool in the form of shielding and easy access to revives and healing, which means you're often happy to soak up a bullet or two, and the consequences for taking a risk are usually pretty minor." "However, suppression still exists, it just requires more of an active beat-down to achieve the necessary level of threat." "the key is in putting accurate fire down, because only actual hits will achieve a suppressive effect. " [MENTION=16189]starstriker1[/MENTION]

    These interesting point where made which brought me to start thinking about how this should effect how we play. I will be talking about some things that I observe in me and will apply this to the general player. So if you think I'm wrong or if you would react differently, just keep that to yourself :) JK if that happens please write it down in a reply. With that said here goes.

    Suppression (as used in game) is, the forcing of someone to hide because he/she is afraid of being hit. Now when it comes to PS2 this is no longer the case. To suppress someone you have to force them to hide because they are afraid of dying. While afraid is to strong of a term to use here what you are causing the player to think is: "if I stay out of cover, I'm going to be killed". So the mindset is already very different from other games and as such should be dealt with differently. The "Fear"of bullets is not apart of the normal enemy and our goal is to creat that for the person we are shooting at. Sniper fire would be the best example of how suppression works in this game. A random Sniper bullet that hits near a player will not almost no affect in a large to medium battle. But a single Sniper bullet that hits a player will suppress that person for the next ten seconds or less. Also any Sniper bullets that hit near that player just after being shot himself will have a much greater suppressive affect on him. This is a little give or take depending on how real the farm is. Like [MENTION=16189]starstriker1[/MENTION] said, "the key is putting accurate fire down".

    Let's take a moment to look at DMR's. While there is a medic gun which falsely has DMR in its name, real DMR's are rifles that work best in between that ranges of a Sniper Rifle and a Battle Rifle. We would know them in game as the Scout Rifles or the Battle Rifle. For now we will just call them Semi Auto Rifles. They are midrange, accurate, slow firing, high damage, rifles. In other words the very opposite to the kind of gun that you would want for suppressing players in other games. But here is the beauty in the crazy game of ours. 1 high damage bullet does a better job suppressing than three bullets that do the same damage but where shot with 10 others. This just has to do with how players react to the deference between being shot at and being shot. Those 10 other bullets say to the player that the chances of him being killed are lower even though they might be killing him just as fast as the the Semi Auto Rifle weapon is. But you say that we are okay aim and would not miss that much, but I will get back to that is a second.

    Now just like everything, there is a trade off that happens. Just like it is harder to suppress someone in this game. It is also harder for that someone to pose as much of a threat as in most other games. In PR it is much more important to suppress someone because if you don't they could kill your whole squad. With that in mind it makes sense that suppression in that game happens at all ranges. But now let's look at what ranges we are expecting to see suppression being used in PS2.

    In CQC it is almost useless to suppress someone. At that range you would be going for the kill.
    At short range suppression again is not very useful as your squad should be able to put down anyone that you would need to suppress.
    At medium ranges it starts to become useful especially if the enemy has better positioning and good cover.
    At long range it become a huge part as this is the range that snipers like playing peekaboo.
    With that knowledge mid to long range is where suppressing the enemy becomes effective especially of your squad is in the open and the enemy is behind cover. This is the range that the Semi Auto Rifles shine like a star. Like I promised I'm coming back to the point of TG people missing their shots. While a LMG, Carbine, or Assault Rifles can tap fire, they are less affective than a Warden or a Scout Rifle. But combing the two types of guns and you have something deadly. Say you have two people in the squad that have Semi Auto Rifles. One has the warden and the other has whatever the Scout Rife for the NC is. You are crossing a field and someone on a ridge above you starts firing down on you. The two SA Rifle people and one LMG guy stops. The SA Rifle people fire two shots (all they have to do is hit the guy once each) and the LMG starts to shoot. The enemy player runs behind cover (that or says where he is and just dies). After all his shields just popped. The LMG guy lays a heavy stream of bullets at the spot where the enemy was last seen or is likely to reappear. The enemy has now seen the "effect" of the bullets. So even though he should know that they don't do all that much damage, he will ack as though the LMG bullets had the power of all three guns. And even if he knows that other people where shooting at him, the damage he received would make him keep his head down. The constant steam of bullets that is hitting his cover is running one thought subconsciously through his brain. That thought is "Their are people who are looking in his direction, with the intent to kill him". He has now unknowingly received the fear of bullets. The time he is behind cover will give the squad time to move into better positions.

    So while LMG's are effective at suppressing I would tend to say let the single fire guys do the damage and the LMG guy do the mind games. Also while they might not have that good of a time to kill their Alpha damage is very high which should help with the fact that they only need to shoot the guy once for him to to get the point. This also means that is would be easier to suppress multiple people if you just need to know how to hit each of them once. Assuming that there are two people in the squad who are doing this.

    What are your guys thoughts on the matter?
    "When attacking a stronger opponent, Attack swiftly and with full force at their weakest point— take them out before the can react, or Fall back and engage in guerrilla actions,” Spartan 117.

  • #2
    Re: "Suppressing Fire!!!"

    -My thoughts are... Infil scout rifles are usually better than the warden and have a slightly higher damage output... (I think by like one bullet. I know you guys love your heavy assaults but sometimes you just really gotta let them go.)
    -also knowing witch people are shooting were could be a hair chaotic. I have actually seen suppression fire used effectively in game once on a group of about 2-3 infills. we were running out in a field and got to a hill but then infils began to trying to hit us from the rear inside a group of trees and brush directly behind us. two squad mates asked for permission to flank and go after them... It was granted. I had the bright idea with my heavies lmg to to just fire in the general direction of the infils, seeing as fire status was weapon green. The rest of the squad joined in and allowed for our guys to get to them unnoticed. to say the least it worked... the infils were suppressed long enough for our guys to circle around and get the drop on them. point is it works... but It usually doesn't work against hole squads worth of people.

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    • #3
      Re: "Suppressing Fire!!!"

      It absolutely works against a full squad worth of people; the point of suppression is to give you control of the battle by reducing enemy combat effectiveness and preventing movement with the threat of your weapons fire, and these are things we can achieve with confidence. The traditional way--an overwhelming hail of bullets--is less effective in this environment (but not ineffective) but if you beat on an enemy squad enough they'll be combat ineffective and immobile.

      For instance, a dead enemy is not moving or shooting back (nor are they out; a medic can pick them up). Constantly dropping members of a squad so that they're scrambling to keep their guys up and holding back to recharge their shields is a form of suppression. Anything that makes them reluctant to poke their head out will do the trick.

      Suppression is actually a pretty common state to be in in Planetside. You've probably been suppressed without ever realizing it, hiding from incoming tank rounds, only poking your head out to engage for a brief moment, or hiding from fire while your shields recharge. Or when you catch a sniper round to the face and find yourself having difficulty fighting back from the respawn screen!

      Here's an example of a hypothetical situation where suppression can work really well: there are two hills facing each other, your squad on one and the enemy on the other. Both squads can fire upon and take cover from the other; neither can decisively win the engagement. If they start slugging it out, both of them will start suppressing the other to a degree. In an even engagement, suppression is often mutual.

      But, in an effort to unroot them from their position, you send half your squad in to take their position. From the high ground they'd normally be in a pretty good position to push that attack off. However, the part of your squad on overwatch can threaten them enough that taking the positions that would allow fighting off the assaulting squad would expose them to you. They're stuck taking positions that provide cover against you, and will have difficulty relocating to help their teammates or break contact. The suppression you've done--which, by the way, probably didn't stop them from firing back, they were probably pelting you with bullets the whole time and maybe even suppressing you harder than you suppressed them--gave the assaulting team a clear approach and made the enemy distracted and poorly positioned, increasing the chance of a successful assault.

      That's also a situation in which sniper rifles make for excellent suppression tools, allowing effective and threatening fire at range.



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      • #4
        Re: "Suppressing Fire!!!"

        I like using HE/HEAT tanks for suppressing fire myself.
        Communications, Cohesion, Confidence.

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        • #5
          Re: "Suppressing Fire!!!"

          Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
          It absolutely works against a full squad worth of people; the point of suppression is to give you control of the battle by reducing enemy combat effectiveness and preventing movement with the threat of your weapons fire, and these are things we can achieve with confidence. The traditional way--an overwhelming hail of bullets--is less effective in this environment (but not ineffective) but if you beat on an enemy squad enough they'll be combat ineffective and immobile.

          For instance, a dead enemy is not moving or shooting back (nor are they out; a medic can pick them up). Constantly dropping members of a squad so that they're scrambling to keep their guys up and holding back to recharge their shields is a form of suppression. Anything that makes them reluctant to poke their head out will do the trick.

          Suppression is actually a pretty common state to be in in Planetside. You've probably been suppressed without ever realizing it, hiding from incoming tank rounds, only poking your head out to engage for a brief moment, or hiding from fire while your shields recharge. Or when you catch a sniper round to the face and find yourself having difficulty fighting back from the respawn screen!

          Here's an example of a hypothetical situation where suppression can work really well: there are two hills facing each other, your squad on one and the enemy on the other. Both squads can fire upon and take cover from the other; neither can decisively win the engagement. If they start slugging it out, both of them will start suppressing the other to a degree. In an even engagement, suppression is often mutual.

          But, in an effort to unroot them from their position, you send half your squad in to take their position. From the high ground they'd normally be in a pretty good position to push that attack off. However, the part of your squad on overwatch can threaten them enough that taking the positions that would allow fighting off the assaulting squad would expose them to you. They're stuck taking positions that provide cover against you, and will have difficulty relocating to help their teammates or break contact. The suppression you've done--which, by the way, probably didn't stop them from firing back, they were probably pelting you with bullets the whole time and maybe even suppressing you harder than you suppressed them--gave the assaulting team a clear approach and made the enemy distracted and poorly positioned, increasing the chance of a successful assault.

          That's also a situation in which sniper rifles make for excellent suppression tools, allowing effective and threatening fire at range.
          -pfffffffff after mutch reading star wins. :( wawawawawawaaaa. None the less We still should be working it into our squads whenever possible.

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          • #6
            Re: "Suppressing Fire!!!"

            Glad to see I didn't end up scrambling your minds, too much. Also very sorry for any spelling grammar error I had/will have. I'm writing this on a IPad and really miss my keyboard. Spent two hours writing my first post on the wed and then was told that my session timed out or something. So understand it is not as easy to write stuff as back in the states.

            Anyway, not sure how you are going to implement this into squads. Maybe have designated people who suppress and others who advance and neutralize. I could see some thing like this becoming a part of our contact reaction. Not sure if there is a formal contact reaction drill but I'm sure we could come up with one quickly. Also using tanks with HE is very good for suppressing. But this requires that the tank is your running with the squad or has position they can fire on the enemy that is engaging you.
            "When attacking a stronger opponent, Attack swiftly and with full force at their weakest point— take them out before the can react, or Fall back and engage in guerrilla actions,” Spartan 117.

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