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Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

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  • Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

    I think the new Harasser buggy (with Halberd upgrade) could be used as a very effective anti tank (or anti-Sunderer) weapon. It has the speed to be able to flank enemies (tanks specifically) and reach their vulnerable rear armor. Add a couple heavies and if you get in the right position, you can take out tanks almost in one salvo. A couple (or three) of these units could be deadly to a couple/few pieces of armor. Scale up accordingly to deal with larger numbers of armor.

    A few of you posting in the Harasser Preview thread have already realized this. But for the rest of you, here are some numbers that may convince you. In the interest of science, I just did some testing in VR, check it out:

    Weapon Target Impact Area on Target Shots to Kill
    Harasser (Halberd) Vanguard Front 8 (7*)
    " " Side 6 (5*)
    " " Rear 4
    " Sunderer Front 5
    " " Side 5
    Decimator Vanguard Side 6 (5*)
    " " Rear 3
    * The numbers in parenthesis notate that the target was almost dead (sliver of health) at that many shots. If you began your attack with target at 100% health, you would require the full number of shots. But due to real battlefield conditions and other possible pre-existing damage, you may kill the target in the number of shots in parenthesis

    The Decimator is the upgraded dumbfire, but the stock dumbfire does pretty close (slightly less) damage. I could have done some more testing with Crows (guided AV missiles, which do still less damage) but you get the point.

    I think the numbers speak for themselves. Add in the fact that you can pull them anywhere (just like a Sundy or a flash) and I think you have the possibility of a very effective armor (or Sundy) counter. Adding 2x zoom on the Halberd gives you a little safety of range, but then the dumb fire Decimators (max damage) or stock dumbfire would not be as effective (harder to hit at range). But substitute a couple of Crow guided missiles and you would be golden. A team of 2 Harassers with all Heavies (with guided Crows) and one or two Engineers (for ammo for the heavies and repairing the dune buggies) could easily take out an enemy tank in one salvo from the rear, and from a relatively safe distance. Use speed for positioning / flanking, then open up from range behind them. Muhahahahaha.... :D

    Or, two of these full of heavies could fly out of the base (or come around from a nearby base, which would work even better actually) and take out the enemy Sundy from the outside, breaking the siege!

    Anyone been doing this yet? If so, please share your experiences. Also, tankers, watch out for those flanking Harassers (although the way we seem to employ armor smartly and from range I think it will not be as much of a problem for us).
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw




  • #2
    Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

    Actually Randy, I was planning on setting up a squad tomorrow during the day to test out some different setups. I am working my Harrasser up but would like 3 others with Halberds to test out concentrated, coordinated fire.

    Drivers are Medics/Engy
    Gunners HA/LA/Inf/Medic
    Rear seat Engy/Max

    For Armor, setup engies in back to drop mines about. This has hit and run tactics all over it. So, if you can slow down pursuit the better your survivability. AA, I would go 3 Maxs in back seat, with an engy in the 4th. Walkers or Rangers for guns. For Assaults I would go 4 CQC Max's and 2 engy drivers and 2 medic drivers, HA in all the gunners positions.
    sigpic




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    • #3
      Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

      For anti-tank work, I'm thinking that an AV MAX in the back is better than a Decimator-armed HA.

      Falcon and Decimator both have the same projectile speed, but Falcon has no acceleration period.

      Falcon Damage per shot: 875 per arm, 1750 total
      Decimator Damage per shot: 2000

      Falcon Reload Time: 2.1 sec
      Decimator Reload Time: 5.7 sec

      Falcon DPS: 416 per arm 833 total
      Decimator DPS: 350

      Falcon Ammo Pool: 45 rds
      Decimator Ammo Pool: 4 rds

      Not only do dual Falcons have more than double the DPS, a MAX is also much more survivable in the rumble seat, and has a much bigger ammo pool, meaning that the combat endurance of the unit is increased to 92 seconds of sustained fire, compared to 17.1 seconds for the Decimator. (34.2 with rocket packs)
      Teamwork and Tactics are OP


      Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

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      • #4
        Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

        youtube.com/watch?v=XEcqahH2MCY

        Here's the video from earlier

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        • #5
          Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

          Awesome video man, thanks for posting that up. Yeah I was sorry I couldn't participate in that today, I was getting the AAR down from last night, then needed to take a nap. lol But next time...

          After watching the video, a few thoughts. Great idea with engineer in the back seat. Skip the nanite and instead invest in flak armor. :)

          I could see "wolf packs" of these roaming around the flanks, destroying enemy armor and Sundies. Or, doing as you guys did, patrolling deep in enemy territory getting the lone tank as they come out of the warpgate or between bases. Especially against Vanguards, as they have no turret and need to turn to shoot at you. That means someone should be able to get in one or more shots at their exposed rear armor.

          But what's with the missing portions of video? I still hear the audio though. Is that just me and/or youtube?

          Also, looked like a helluva lot of fun. :) Yeah, I think I will definitely be getting the howitzer on my Harasser. With some zoom and extended ammo capacity, to be able to go for long runs between ammo towers. So, anyone else wants to do this again in the future, just let me know. I may even do it tonight in fact!
          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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          • #6
            Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

            youtube.com/watch?v=Y7hxjRdoOYk Im not allowed to embed videos yet.

            here's another video this time the whole platoon is in harassers =p

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            • #7
              Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

              Here is some video, courtesy again of ghostshooter101. He is new so his posts are still being moderated, this is something I am working to remedy as he has been making some great videos lately.

              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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              • #8
                Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                Kudos to ndeep's for his first time as PL (as far as I am aware) or at least taking the point it seems, with Al as PL.

                As several people point out in the video, I don't think it's a good idea to engage enemy platoonS, especially in a confined area like the Tech Plant. But Esamir (and the flat parts of Indar also) would be ideal I think. I picture more of a roaming predator, like a wolf pack, using speed and numbers to pick apart smaller numbers of tanks, sunderers, etc. in open plains and especially in between bases.

                At the end of the video, a group of armor and tanks come into the south side of the base, but almost all the Harassers are down already. This would have been a perfect opportunity for a full platoon of Harassers to interdict, if they were roaming the spaces in between the bases, instead of circling one base in particular, while others were trying to cap. So I think the Harasser wolf pack strategy should involve roaming in the spaces between bases, engaging targets of opportunity, and not trying to cap at all.

                Not a great demonstration of good Harasser tactics in this video actually, but let this be a marker of where we began with our Harasser tactics. lol Like all the other things we are doing well now (comms, airborne insertions, CAS, armor) we will get better with time and practice.
                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                • #9
                  Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                  Here's some random thoughts after spending the last few days with the Harasser and seeing what this little puppy can do.

                  Communication - effective comms between you the driver and your gunner are imperative. If you have a gunner in your vehicle that you can't communicate with either on squad or proximity chat then you need to find another gunner. Drivers can locate and call out targets on VOIP, but they have trouble spotting them due to the camera view from behind in third person and the cockpit view. Gunners need to pay attention to any targets that the driver points out that they themselves haven't spotted yet. At the same time Gunners must always be scanning for targets and alert the driver to any potential threats.

                  Recon - I've found that if you're in the midst of capping a base or holding onto one, the Harrasser is great for running short recon/patrol routes around the base perimeter. With the Harrasser's speed and agility they can easily locate any hostiles that are close by or moving to counter attack by spotting and reporting them and then returning to base. This should give the guys back in the capture zone enough time to organize some form of defense.

                  Repairs - an Engineer should be riding in the mounted gun at all times if you have only two people. Once you've taken about 50% damage or so, the driver must pull out of the fight to run while the Engineer switches to the rear seat and begins to make repairs. With any luck you can be back in the fight again in less than 20 seconds. If you have any other class occupying the third seat then you probably should bail out of the vehicle while repairs are being made.

                  Offensive Driving - Harasser drivers need to be able to dodge, turn and maneuver effectively when in a fight or running from a fight. Your main job is to keep the vehicle moving at all times to avoid enemy fire while allowing your gunner to score good hits on his or her target. Be sure to practice circling targets, weaving to avoid fire while pulling away from a target and being able to turn immediately and running from a target if you bump into something that will take you down immediately.

                  Upgrades - there's a variety of options here, but for the Wolfpack configuration which is ideal for search and destroy missions against lone enemy targets, I'm going with full Composite Armor and Racer Chasis plus the usual ammo/reload upgrades to keep the Harasser in the field longer without a resupply. It might be worthwhile to invest in the proximity radar at some point or even to have a flash with proximity travelling with the Wolfpack to help them locate targets.

                  Resupply - if you're running with an ammo Sunderer then this shouldn't be much of a problem. If you're running on the fly over a large area then I've found that once you've located an ammo tower in the nearest friendly base, open your map and place your own personal waypoint on the tower so that you'll always have it marked and ready to return to when you've exhausted all your ammunition.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                    Just a note from one of our Harasser runs - Firing an AA Max from the back of a moving Harasser is only effective at close-range. Medium-range is iffy, and forget long shots.

                    Or maybe I'm just a poor gunner. :P
                    Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                    Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                      What I have found running solo is that if you find a good gunner or driver then marry him.......there is a serious lack of either I've found. In order to be a good driver or gunner the default keybind "T" is your best friend. If the gunner is running 3rd person then the driver won't have to waste the time on target spotting. See a target then hit F2 and your on them in a second because the turrent is pointing in the direction your looking. I haven't tried fixing a Harrasser while it's moving from the 3rd seat but don't think it's possible. It may be but I don't think so.

                      Also I've certed mine up with the surge chassis, the reason being is that it allows me to drive in places that the armor can't get to. I'm already faster than they are. If I can get up and over a hill, wait 10 seconds then turn and come back at them, I can flank them once, hit them on the drive by then repeat until they are dead. If by waiting they think I'm gone and jump out to repair then I kill the driver and have a picnic on the armor. Another thing I've done although I don't recommend it, and is the same thing I've done in a lib. See a target and hit the F2 or F3 in the case of the lib and shoot and destroy the target while the harrasser and lib is still moving (although the harrasser slows down pretty quick)

                      Other things I've certed up, increased ammo, decreased reload time, composite armor, Halberd, decreased acquisition time.

                      Oh and another thing I've learned........unless your locked on by a rocket (at which time you assume the crash position and kiss your a** goodby), in 3rd person you can "rock" (move forward then backwards) advoiding the rockets, and depending on the distance the same thing applies to tank fire. Also NEWS FLASH..............the Halberd has very little bullet drop out to about 400 meters, so one "cold shot" (to range) and the rest should be dead on if you standing still no exceptions, if you find you can't do that then you need some practise. Pick a tree, mountain, even a portion of the base then fire at a spot on it. Keep backing up to see how much bullet drop you get at distance (also another good use for the personal way marker described later). Do it enough times and you'll get a feel for it. Also for sniping, if you have the time, use your personal way marker and place it in the firing zone you'll be sniping. At the bottom of the way marker is the distance.........a range finder if you will. If you have a segmented reticule (like the Halberd) you can learn the bullet drop at different distances and how that correlates to the notchs on the reticule. Go to VR Training and try it.

                      Just some random experiences and words of advice.........take them if they are any use to you.
                      Last edited by Rageq3a; 05-07-2013, 03:25 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                        After finally getting a chance last night to play around with Harassers, I agree with pretty much everything Rage and Assault have said above. What I suppose I would like to add is that it is important to employ the Harasser in the correct circumstances where it will have the greatest chance of success. I prefer to do what I call wolf packs. Get a squad or two worth of Harssers, a good number of them need to have Halberd upgrades, but a couple with the stock gun are not bad because more vehicles add to the confusion and can fire at infantry and air targets. What we did last night to very good effect was to roam the spaces between bases and look for targets of opportunity. We were not looking to get involved in base fights or trying to cap flags whatsoever. Also stay away from large fights and heavy concentrations of enemies. Finally, operate in terrain that favors the Harassers strong suit, speed (in other words, the open flat portions of the map). It also helps I think to be behind enemy lines where you are not expected. We operated in the open plains of the southwest portion of Indar, behind enemy lines. We engaged targets of opportunity (1-2 tanks, sunderers) by swarming around them just like a pack of wolves. I made sure to explain to everyone beforehand to maneuver for the shot to the rear of tanks, as they can be killed in half the usual number of shots. Also, the usual cautions whenever using assets of being conservative with your assets in order to stay alive. We did very well at this, we would find a target, all swoop in together, and after taking some damage (and usually killing the target) all withdraw together quickly to a safe location, make some repairs, some times rearm, and then go back and re-engage (or look for another target). It worked beautifully as we swarmed and quickly killed many tanks and sunderers. And we stayed alive for long periods of time, until we ran out of ammo. That's why I second the above recommendations regarding upgrading ammo capacity.

                        So then what we started doing also was to roll a dual AA ammo sundy with us. I have to give credit to DiscoJedi for this idea as I was initially against it until he used his jedi mind tricks on me. But he was correct. The sundy would hang back a bit from the main battle and stay alive, but then we had a close rearming point and also some more help with AA. Plus a spawn point to change kits. Speaking of AA, I think dual burster Maxes in seat 3 is a good AA counter. You only need a couple/few of them to have a really good AA deterrent. Let the Halberds kill the vehicles, AA maxes for air cover. I also recommend Medics as drivers so they can res the Maxes and do occasional heals to the squishies. Engineers should be #2 gunner and switch to #3 to make repairs. As Assault says, Max in #3 should jump out so Engineer can make repairs. But problem is sometimes the Max gets left behind. So even better I recommend everyone stay in and Harasser just duck behind some nearby cover, Engi jumps out and makes repairs, then you don't leave your Max behind to die all by himself when the Harassers all speed off for repairs.

                        Another good thing to have along when operating behind enemy lines is one Infiltrator in the group, to hack vehicle terminals to replace Harassers and maybe the Sundy.

                        With 2 squads of Harassers working together in this way, we were annihilating enemy vehicles very quickly, I was amazed how quickly in fact. The highlights of last night were when one enemy said, in /yell, "yeah the Harasser is officially B.S." and also when we destroyed several TE Sundies attacking a VS base. The NC was not even in the fight anywhere and had no adjacency. They must have wondered what the hell we were doing there. lol It was almost like we were just griefing them. lol

                        But yes, employed in this way I think we have proven a very effective tactic. Also very fun. I think a great role would be to position the Harasser wolf pack between the closest point enemies can pull armor and their front line, and just pick off their tanks in ones and twos as they attempt to reinforce the front line fight. I don't see anyone doing that and it is an extremely effective tactic, and would be an armor sink for the enemy, not to mention possibly making them rage quit also. lol
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                        • #13
                          Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                          last night I was doing some solo play just testing out some things with my vanguard. Until I was ambushed by two TR harassers. Now I consider myself a decent vanguard driver but I've never been picked apart so fast without having the chance to fire my gun. Everytime I would get one in my sight it would be out of range or behind cover by that time the second one had already flanked me. I couldnt retreat to repair because they were living up to their name, harasser. It felt like they were playing with me.

                          I was frustrated because here I am thinking Im the baddest thing on the battlefield just to be embarrassed by two golf carts in half the time it would take if i was to go against enemy armor. I started thinking about what had happened. When people start running their own wolfpacks and notice how much damage 3-4 of them can do, the number of armor deployed on the battlefield will start to decrease out of fear.

                          Even though I was by myself I dont think having another vangaurd with me would of made a difference. This whole time I have only been on the giving end of the attack but its a different story when you fall in a harasser's trap.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                            I stand corrected............just jumped "in game" to test the theory and it's true you can repair the Harrasser while in the 3rd seat, even though I had to employ the Drive then switch method you can do it.

                            Therefor I suggest a modification on Assult9 method. Driver, Gunner, and a Engy in the 3rd seat doing repairs on the roll as the other 2 are going around the battlefield handing out havoc.

                            Wolf pack formation I would suggest, 3 anti-tank Harrassers and 2 AA. The reasoning is simple..........you can out run tanks, aircraft once they sustain 50% damage will usually leave and you can't chase them.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Harasser Anti Tank / Anti Sunderer Tactics (with numbers!)

                              Randy you've put together an impressive graph, would it be possible to get a graph listing all of the different armor from the other two fractions with the Halberd damage report. My thought is simple, just like a real wolf pack, you always single out the weakest first. By knowing who is the weakest you can break their ranks fairly quickly by engaging that (or those) tank(s) first. The other heavier tanks will have to break ranks to defend the weak, or just let them die. Either way it cuts down on the armor initiative. The you can start picking apart the heavier tanks after the engagement with the weaker ones by combining Harrasser strength. In other words......2 harrassers to a unit, go after the weak tanks, so say you have 2 units of harrassers after 2 weak tanks, once the weak are eliminated, all 4 go after the heavy. Squad split would pit 6 units after the weak, combined would be 3 units per heavy.

                              Like I said, whatever their initial objective becomes a moot point for them. Because they will either have to lose objectionable awareness or lose the tanks.

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