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  • Shooting down drop pods

    As you may know, it's possible to shoot down drop pods in flight, though it's a rare occurrence. I'm starting to wonder if it's something we should pursue actively, however.

    The ideal vehicle for taking it down is a Reaver with afterburners sitting at the flight ceiling waiting for them to pop in. If it spawns close enough, the Reaver can burst in behind it and follow it down, at which point it's very fragile and doesn't take too much to destroy. At the tail end of tonight as the platoon was winding down I took the opportunity to practise this, and it's really not that difficult to execute with a little practice. I understand that flak can also be used for this.

    This means that it might be a good secondary duty for an air superiority squad once air dominance has been achieved over a contested base. The "chaser" Reavers can spend their idle time waiting for drop pods. Every drop pod that doesn't make it down is one less threat to the ground pounders, especially given that drop podding infantry can pop up in unexpected places or even be a massive threat to Sunderers (in fact, it might be worth having a Skyguard or Sunderer AA turret manned and facing skywards at all times if enemy drops are a concern). This could even cripple enemy squads that don't have good spawn support, and are relying on hot drops to replace their losses.

    Thoughts?




  • #2
    Re: Shooting down drop pods

    I actually had the practice of flying my Reaver over hot spaces before the Instant Action nerf and would point my nose up. Depending on the player's computer you can kill a drop pod before it even starts to fall. The player would load in above the flight ceiling but would not begin to descend. I stopped the practice as I realized what was occurring and determined it went against our primer.

    Ultimately, at least on low settings that I have, drop pods have a very short render distance. Today while we were performing a Platoon Hot Drop I was on the ground and saw none of our drop pods falling until I was within 400-500m of them. As a result the effort that goes into positioning and anticipation of the pods normally does not become properly rewarded considering that each pod is only a squishy human being.

    This all being said, some day I hope the game evolves to the point where shooting down drop pods is important and a key part of the game.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Shooting down drop pods

      I have had locks on DP's and have had hit marks as soon as they landed and before they deployed, but never scored a kill. I think the reason they spin and shift in the air is to prevent them from getting shot out of the sky. But I also think that actually hitting 1 out of 20 is a matter of luck considering how fast they drop (fast or slow) and the randomness of spawning in the air. I also believe that you have a better chance of being hit by one than they do of getting shot down considering how many actual kills the DP's have had by dropping on enemy aircraft.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Shooting down drop pods

        Originally posted by Ytman View Post
        This all being said, some day I hope the game evolves to the point where shooting down drop pods is important and a key part of the game.
        You look forward to the day when the game endorses spawn camping?

        The players in the pods have no orientation, no knowledge they are being shot at, and no way to fight back.

        Bravo... your valor well suits you.

        "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Shooting down drop pods

          Considering the tactical advantage they gain from dropping from the sky, I don't think it's really in the same category. They are choosing to drop face first into a live combat zone in a fashion that's likely to put them at a significant tactical advantage when they land--including the VERY common practice of landing on a Sunderer and destroying it with explosives before the defenders can even figure out where they ARE--they can deal with a little risk to their reward. They've also got plenty of situational awareness, once they're past that initial 3 seconds of drop, and they use it to determine their exact landing spot/decide what vehicle they're going to destroy out of nowhere.



          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Shooting down drop pods

            Tactical Gamer has a long history of avoiding taking advantage of "opportunities" like this that game engines may afford. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's right. Just because other people do it doesn't mean we should.

            You're engaging the enemy before are in any position to be a combatant. This just smacks of spawn camping.

            I am not trying to step on the shoes of the NCO Corps and the GO... but even considering this "tactic" seems wrong.

            "Everytime I read your posts I do it with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head as if he is narrating your life" - Aimed

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Shooting down drop pods

              They're a combatant as soon as they use a drop pod instead of a grounded spawn. That thing is a weapon, and an extremely difficult one to defend against at that. When they land, the opponents that they land on have no reasonable expectation of knowing where they're coming from and will be too disoriented in the following few seconds--if the game even RENDERS them--to pinpoint them. In that time, they can destroy important assets with little-to-no risk of being stopped. To say nothing of what happens if a vehicle or player is directly beneath them when they land...

              I don't think this is analogous to spawn camping at all.



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Shooting down drop pods

                Hitting them while they're still loading in and stationary? Exploiting. Hitting them in mid-flight? I don't see how that should be considered spawn-camping. Players always have a choice of redeploying to a safe spawn. Drop-pods are a high-risk, high-reward deployment. They're used to get to unexpected places at unexpected times in order to gain an advantage, rather than taking the "safe spawn".

                Furthermore, the player is fast, difficult to hit and capable of maneuvering. Not to mention being able to one-shot aircraft they land on. From the moment the pod drops, the player is a flying weapon, capable of doing massive, instant, and for ground vehicles, difficult to avoid damage. Drop pods might be considered a primary target for CAP, whose purpose is "To intercept and destroy airborne threats before they reach their targets."

                I don't see this as any different from shooting at a transport vehicle on Fool's Road. Sure, the player's mostly defenceless, but they chose to deploy that way. Would you cry foul if someone shot you while you were driving a truck into an enemy FOB?
                Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Shooting down drop pods

                  Originally posted by Damonte View Post
                  You look forward to the day when the game endorses spawn camping?

                  The players in the pods have no orientation, no knowledge they are being shot at, and no way to fight back.

                  Bravo... your valor well suits you.
                  Nice personal attack with little opportunity given to me to explain my statements.

                  Notice I phrased the statement to say: "I hope the game evolves to the point where shooting down drop pods is important and a key part of the game."

                  I want the game to evolve to a level where drop pods are treated more like a Galaxy or Sunderer. Where they can be both more freely used; I.E. a squad/platoon could be a dedicated Hot Drop Squad/Platoon (like the space version of an Airborne).

                  I envision whole skies filled with streaking pods coming from real versions of the Capitalship hinted at by Higby. A part of strategic realm mattering about preventing massive Orbital Drops from ruining friendly offensive or defensive actions.

                  Yes, frankly I don't like the games implementation of the Drop Pod. I think its an easily exploitable method of travel with nearly no downsides. I think that it can be enhanced and I would like you to apologize.

                  Edit: Furthermore this game actively does promote spawn camping as the key means to preventing defenders from accessing the battlefield outside of their spawn room. Your inability to take that in to account while jumping on my statement shows poor judgement and a desire to talk about things one knows little about (as clarified by StarStriker's post which states that a drop pod is a weapon as much as a transportational tool).

                  Are we suddenly not going to shoot Galaxies because they have eight (pilot can ram) non-combatants? Are unarmed flashes just a ground version of a drop pod allowing you to get from point A to B? Drop Pods are clearly hostile vehicles, in a hostile environment, and shouldn't be treated any differently than any other enemy unit.
                  Last edited by Ytman; 07-23-2013, 10:08 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Shooting down drop pods

                    Originally posted by Strait Raider View Post
                    Hitting them while they're still loading in and stationary? Exploiting. Hitting them in mid-flight? I don't see how that should be considered spawn-camping. Players always have a choice of redeploying to a safe spawn. Drop-pods are a high-risk, high-reward deployment. They're used to get to unexpected places at unexpected times in order to gain an advantage, rather than taking the "safe spawn".

                    Furthermore, the player is fast, difficult to hit and capable of maneuvering. Not to mention being able to one-shot aircraft they land on. From the moment the pod drops, the player is a flying weapon, capable of doing massive, instant, and for ground vehicles, difficult to avoid damage. Drop pods might be considered a primary target for CAP, whose purpose is "To intercept and destroy airborne threats before they reach their targets."

                    I don't see this as any different from shooting at a transport vehicle on Fool's Road. Sure, the player's mostly defenseless, but they chose to deploy that way. Would you cry foul if someone shot you while you were driving a truck into an enemy FOB?
                    I agree with this entirely.

                    Drop pods are fast, unarmed transport vehicles that players may choose instead of safe, shielded spawn rooms or armed Sunderers. Until the beacon is found and destroyed they are extremely powerful and there's very little the opponents can do. Occasionally, infantry may notice the pod mid-flight and aim where it lands, or happen to be facing there and react quickly, but not in the majority of cases. The player drop podding can easily get to advantageous positions, like heights the average soldier cannot get to, or simply behind enemy lines. Even if people react quickly, you can usually kill multiple infantry or even destroy a tank or Sunderer.

                    Whereas spawning players out of thin air doesn't make sense and creates balance problems, drop pods are a great alternative that fit entirely within both lore and game play. Consider if they were invulnerable, we'd have the same oddity of shooting an enemy that just materialised and not being able to do a thing about it. In the mean time, drop pods are capable of ramming aircraft, destroying fighters in one hit as well as damaging Liberators and Galaxies, all of which currently tend to destroy the drop pod.

                    I agree that from the moment you load in you are a combatant. From the developers perspective they've made drop pods vulnerable, you can even lock on to them with AA missiles, and they give you -I think- 100xp, the same as standard infantry. If you destroy them while loading, they give you 25xp, the same as spawn killing (although I would prefer they simply made them invulnerable during that time).


                    Furthermore, it must be considered from the viewpoint of the pilot. Hitting drop pods takes a little practice and even then you're unlikely to be able to do so consistently. In my experience, those that are aware of the risk and bother to maneuver on the way down have much better odds of surviving. You would have to dedicate multiple fighters to genuinely clear the skies of a single squad's worth of pods - good luck managing that against a platoon or more, there simply isn't the time or space. It's also risky: hovering near max-altitude in the general area that drop pods spawn is liable to get you rammed by the very things you're trying to camp.

                    Finally, while drop pods cannot fight back, the scale of PS2 means you cannot consider 1v1 balance alone. Sitting still, in plain view and watching the skies is pretty much the worst thing I can think of doing for a fighter as you lose most situational awareness and can easily be ambushed by practiced pilots. Thus, I view obtaining air superiority then dedicating some pilots to taking out drop pods while the others protect them as a very interesting tactic and counter to the very powerful spawn beacon. If the enemy is in the habit of using said tactic against you then, to effectively use a beacon, you should hope your team is, at least, attempting to take control of the skies.

                    Drop pods are high-risk / high-reward and the game is both more interesting and better balanced when they can be shot down.



                    |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Shooting down drop pods

                      Originally posted by Damonte View Post
                      You look forward to the day when the game endorses spawn camping?

                      The players in the pods have no orientation, no knowledge they are being shot at, and no way to fight back.

                      Bravo... your valor well suits you.
                      Originally posted by Ytman View Post
                      Nice personal attack with little opportunity given to me to explain my statements.

                      Notice I phrased the statement to say: "I hope the game evolves to the point where shooting down drop pods is important and a key part of the game."

                      I want the game to evolve to a level where drop pods are treated more like a Galaxy or Sunderer. Where they can be both more freely used; I.E. a squad/platoon could be a dedicated Hot Drop Squad/Platoon (like the space version of an Airborne).

                      I envision whole skies filled with streaking pods coming from real versions of the Capitalship hinted at by Higby. A part of strategic realm mattering about preventing massive Orbital Drops from ruining friendly offensive or defensive actions.

                      Yes, frankly I don't like the games implementation of the Drop Pod. I think its an easily exploitable method of travel with nearly no downsides. I think that it can be enhanced and I would like you to apologize.

                      Edit: Furthermore this game actively does promote spawn camping as the key means to preventing defenders from accessing the battlefield outside of their spawn room. Your inability to take that in to account while jumping on my statement shows poor judgement and a desire to talk about things one knows little about (as clarified by StarStriker's post which states that a drop pod is a weapon as much as a transportational tool).

                      Are we suddenly not going to shoot Galaxies because they have eight (pilot can ram) non-combatants? Are unarmed flashes just a ground version of a drop pod allowing you to get from point A to B? Drop Pods are clearly hostile vehicles, in a hostile environment, and shouldn't be treated any differently than any other enemy unit.
                      Come on, guys.. This isn't the sandbox. And, even if it was, personal attacks (real or imagined), being adversarial, or any other type of immature behavior, is not tolerated.

                      So please, either kiss and make up, or kindly drop this part of the discussion, as it has no place here. If you have your minds set on this confrontation, at least take it to PM's or TS.

                      I now return you to your regularly scheduled drop pod shooting thread.

                      sigpic


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Shooting down drop pods

                        Originally posted by Damonte View Post
                        Tactical Gamer has a long history of avoiding taking advantage of "opportunities" like this that game engines may afford. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's right. Just because other people do it doesn't mean we should.

                        You're engaging the enemy before are in any position to be a combatant. This just smacks of spawn camping.

                        I am not trying to step on the shoes of the NCO Corps and the GO... but even considering this "tactic" seems wrong.
                        I'm going to disagree Damonte at least to a point. Initial as the player loads in above flight roof they are completely vulnerable, they will hang in the air without moving until the player fully loads in. That being said to really engage them in this state is difficult and usually requires and ESF to be near the flight limit to hit them. In this situation I whole heartily agree its spawn camping and should be avoided. After the player loads in and begins his decent I think is a different matter. The drop pod can move and avoid fire to a limited degree, also the drop pod it self can one shot ESFs and kill other damaged vehicles by landing on them. This brings up another topic for discussion. Suicide tactics are frowned upon here. The offensive drop pod tactic is going to kill the "dropee" 99% of the time. Clearly a suicide tactic in my mind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Shooting down drop pods

                          Hmm... The counter argument I suppose would be that 1) Drop pods are designed in part to be used that way and 2) Drop pods used this way are quite easy to avoid.
                          Teamwork and Tactics are OP


                          Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Shooting down drop pods

                            As an infantry SL/PL I have to say that I frown on infantry suicide into targets of opportunity from drop pods. Not because of it being a 'suicide tactic' (suicide in PS2 doesn't specifically exist as death is non-existent on a lore level) but because if a PL/SL has put the effort of providing the logistics of you deploying on him he most likely wants you to make landfall.

                            Liberators are annoying and if we are getting wiped anyways; sure take that guy out. But if its a target that otherwise could be handled by assisting air units or ground units then get on the ground and start to make your way to the terrestrial objective given to you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Shooting down drop pods

                              Originally posted by Ytman View Post
                              As an infantry SL/PL I have to say that I frown on infantry suicide into targets of opportunity from drop pods. Not because of it being a 'suicide tactic' (suicide in PS2 doesn't specifically exist as death is non-existent on a lore level) but because if a PL/SL has put the effort of providing the logistics of you deploying on him he most likely wants you to make landfall.

                              Liberators are annoying and if we are getting wiped anyways; sure take that guy out. But if its a target that otherwise could be handled by assisting air units or ground units then get on the ground and start to make your way to the terrestrial objective given to you.
                              If I may interject, this is in itself a contradicting statement. On one hand you have a SL/PL giving objectives to the squad with specific orders how to accomplish that objective. On the other you have a member of the squad making his own judgement call as to whether or not to take out a Lib during deployment. Granted that decision may be for the betterment of the squad, but is it right to just leave that decision in the hands of someone you have given specific orders to..........thereby putting him in direct violation of the orders given as pointed out in your first statement?

                              Another point is that regardless whether you respawn or not a death is still a death, if that death is by your own hands then by definition it is suicide. If there were no 'death' then there would be no K/D ratio. Granted you do respawn, but I haven't played a game that once you died, you had to uninstall the game because you weren't allow to play again as in a real death. So death by it's technical term doesn't exist in any game regardless of lore.

                              Given the arguments as stated I would for one vote for targeting the drop pods, just as I would vote for targeting a missile being shot at a tank. Because it is a missile regardless whether it held someone or not and in turn guidable by the person contained. That makes him a combatant.

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