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Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

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  • [GUIDE] Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

    Admin edit: This thread is quite long as this technique has gone through several revisions and improvements. You are welcome to read the entire thread if you would like to know why certain kits, vehicles, and weapons were removed in favor of others. But if you are a TG Outfit member, and were told to come here and study this technique before being allowed to participate in a drill, the post you are looking for is currently Version 1.1 in post #62, which contains the current working version.

    End edit.

    I have been considering different possible ways to breach and secure a Amp Station in the shortest period of time. Amp Stations, Bio-Labs, and Tech Plants can be grinders and personally I hate grinders. As most people know I prefer moving fast, hitting hard and securing the objective so we can move on to the next biggest thing. To that end I present the "Fast Break" Technique.

    I was introduced to the "Gate Diffuser" the other day, here is how I would incorporate it in a Amp station breach.

    This techniques requires the use of 6 Engys, 4 Medics, and 2 Infils so you would need a squad to accomplish it in the fastest possible method. Also required would be a Sunderer with a Gate diffuser equipped.

    Step 1: Prepping the field - On occasions where there is a Amp Station alert, the infil would breach the main gates and start hacking the turrets facing the direction of the main units Sundie breach. Otherwise it may not be needed.
    Step 2: After the confirmation that the turrets were hacked the infil go back to the gate to wait for the Sundie breach
    Step 3: The Sundie with the Gate Diffuser approaches the gate and picks up the infil (note there is a distance that the infil can quickly get in the Sundie without the Sundie slowing significantly)
    Step 4: The Sundie continues to the main Amp Station shields and breaches it
    Step 5: Once breached, the Engy unload first with primary weapon taking out the few people that are loitering in the Amp Stations main building
    Step 6: Medics unload followed by Infils
    Step 7: Engys setup anti personnel turrets at the major entrances to the point floor (see pic)
    Step 8: Medics station themselves in a support position for the Engys (see pic)
    Step 9: Infils station themselves to hack the terminals and when possible the aircraft terminals
    Step 10: Wait for the flip...........
    Step 11: Clean out the Riff Raff

    If done properly, from turret hack to stationing shouldn't take any more than 3 minutes which means the enemy has to react quickly and effectively in a "storming" environment which in my estimation would be difficult. The reasoning behind the positioning of the Engys is simple, once the enemy knows the main building has been breached, they will be flowing in like ants at a picnic. Having 2 Engys stationed as illustrated will allow for cool down of the anti-personal turrets will still laying suppression fire.

    As always this technique can be practiced until done perfectly and without hitch and everyone knowing their place.

    Is it necessary to take down any generators?.......nope. Is it necessary to take down the SCU?.......nope. Once the point flips, everything reverts to NC control....taking out gens and the SCU is only necessary if your having a difficult time securing the point which we will have well in hand. Flip the point and you flip the spawn........with the Engys mowing down the enemy they can spawn in as much as they want. The only difficult that might be had would be with grenade launchers, to that end the Infils should be equipped with CQC gear to take them out quickly.

    Also it might be added that this technique can be in advance of the territory being taken prior to the Amp Station, with the point floor secured and waiting for the connecting territory to be flipped.

    Fast Break - Amp Station.jpg
    Last edited by Mindkill; 09-11-2013, 03:46 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

    I think your middle medic is flipped, the enemy is able to come down the elevators from the roof as well. Mid kind of has to watch both directions.

    It's all about timing on this one. You've got maximum 12 guys in there, and none of them heavies or MAXes. It's entirely possible for even a half-strength squad to pull maxes and push you out. I don't give it a good success chance during the busy hours, but I'm willing to try it.

    I say, if you're bringing a sundie you may as well use it. Furies, Bulldogs, either would provide quite the boost to your firepower, and should be able to hold the bay for a while against infantry until they get their act together and mass AV weapons. Buys the guys up top a bit more time. What about a Fury-armed Harasser in the mix, just to spice things up?

    Overall though, I'd love to see some more creative use of the gate-crasher Sundie and Harasser. The only time I've ever seen it done well was when the vanu once came out of the blue and just wrecked an amp station defence. They filled the bay with sundies and harassers, and used our own shields to keep us at bay. We held the entire area with force, but couldn't push back into our own point. It was terrible to behold.
    Teamwork and Tactics are OP

    Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".


    • #3
      Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

      I've whittled down a max with a anti-infantry gun in no time. Considering they are in a funneled kill zone, and every Max that drops is on cool down. I don't think that MAXs are going to be a problem.

      If you count the number or E's and M's there are 9, with 2 Infil's (laying down proxy mines with CQC smg's) there still leaves 1 additional person to float as needed. That person as well as the Infils will be addressing the lift shaft that only a enemy LA could come down and that after they worked their way to the top. All of which takes time that they don't have.

      Also remember that on Indar and Esamir there will be a force on a connecting territory taking that to connect the lattice, once connected they will be coming to the Amp Station as well. Considering that the enemy will have to divert their attention from the connecting territory to the Amp Station with us already on the point and additional troops bearing down. I believe it will be a shock and awe technique they didn't expect. Remember that the best defense for a zerk bearing down on you is to pull armor, but that would mean they would have to have access to the vehicle terminals that we control.

      As far as using vehicles in the mix, my only reserve for that is that would require the medics to leave the safety of suppression fire to revive those in the vehicles. Otherwise when they die they have no option but squad deploy without the ability to get on the point. Also if it is only a squad in size then you have reduced the number of people on the point and have a fire free zone which spells disaster for the method. In addition if you lose a medic who is trying to revive a squad member that fell in a vehicle, you have cut your survivability by that factor.
      Last edited by Rageq3a; 08-27-2013, 10:24 PM.


      • #4
        Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

        I like the idea of crashing an amp station control point ahead of the base being available for capture. That could go a long way towards disrupting any potential defense by starting the cap before the majority of the enemy force responds to defend. Even if it fails to capture, that could allow the main force to capture the exterior generators and gain control of the courtyard due to the enemy overreacting to the breach.

        This would work well against unorganized defenders streaming in one by one, but even an unorganized mob of defenders will eventually overwhelm a squad that has to watch 4 different directions (two wide gates, the rooftop access, and the SCU access with the underground tunnel). It's a lot of ground to cover and not a lot of people to cover it. An organized squad could tear through them even if firmly entrenched, just due to the fact that not all of your squad will be able to respond at once. A larger defending force or a MAX crash/Gal drop would be even worse.

        I say... why not bring more squads to the party? I'd have more confidence in two or three squads holding that point against your typical amp station defense than just the one. It's still vulnerable to the mass last-second Gal drop tactic we've seen a lot lately, but if you've got the spare manpower why not?

        Like I said, though, even WITHOUT being able to singlehandedly win the station, it would be a hell of a distraction if you held on long enough!

        (edit) As far as the infiltrators go, I don't think you need to hack the turrets to make this work if you're leapfrogging the main force. They'll simply be unmanned. However, hacking the vehicle terminals inside the amp station would be very helpful. Pull a few tanks to watch the doors and you can lock down the main forcefields VERY effectively...


        • #5
          Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

          My only reservation to more than 1 squad is the pop indicator. If you have 1 squad the pop reads 1-12......that could be 1 or it could be 12. If you have 2 squads then the pop indicator says 12-24. Reading 12-24 will illicit huge response from the enemy.

          Actually you have 1 Infil switch to Engy with a grenade launcher to cover additional firepower and have the other hack the vehicle terms. Remember that whole idea behind this is to have a small intense focused force at the point. If you dilute the force in any manner at all then your effectively giving up your advantage in having an intense force.

          In retrospect I think that the differences that we see are that some believe that you can't take a base without overwhelming numbers, and in that regard I believe you are correct. But in my military experience you can control a specific point with a small intense focused force. Please remember that we are taking about 7 minutes tops............and in this game 7 minutes can go by in a instant. It takes us 5 minutes to get a Gal drop together. Also remember that the connecting blueberry force is closer to capping than the 7 minutes we have to retain the point and will be coming our way.

          Also remember that Engy's can carry C4, tank mines, proxy mines...........if the 2 engy's on the point lay a brick or two of C4 on the steps and when and if the fighting gets intense on the steps blow the C4, then instantly you have a clear funnel again.

          The more people you have there the greater the response you will have from the enemy....................I'm sure they see the game no different than we do.


          • #6
            Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

            One thing I'd suggest is an engy with smoke and everyone use thermal optics. maxes can never see through smoke and most people don't use thermal on there weapons. Also an engy can resupply his own smoke. This would also limit the ap turret but you could replace those with heavies.


            • #7
              Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

              I don't disagree with you in principle, Rage, I just think that an amp station control point is not a point that allows a small force to be focused and intense. You've got four large, porous, and geographically separated entrances that all need to be covered simultaneously, and that's going to stretch a small squad to its limits. Even assuming that you can ignore the SCU approach by pulling back to the stairs and choose to ignore the rooftop access because it's more difficult to reach without Galaxies, you still need to split the squad in two to cover each set of stairwells, which consists of two stairs that need to be covered at once (and cannot be covered by the same people) and very little in the way of good cover.

              You could manage that with an absolutely fantastic squad, but that would be a very brittle defense vulnerable to any sort of organized counterplay. With the sort of split I described you're vulnerable to light assaults jumping onto the central catwalk or any sort of drop-pod/galaxy drop from the roof, which would end your defense almost immediately. That's just a very rough building to hold without equal numbers.

              I also think you're underestimating how quickly that fight could go awry. 7 minutes isn't all that long if you're holding a hill, but in close quarters a bad grenade or MAX crash could ruin your day in under 10 seconds.


              • #8
                Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                With the way I have envisioned it, both stairway will be covered by both Engy's on anti-infantry turrents. I have revised my thoughts and positioned the 2 Engys' next to the point further down towards the end of the platform because they can also lay fire on the enemy coming into the bay before reaching the killing field of the Engy's at the top. But then if we actually practiced the procedure instead of coming up with ways that it won't work, maybe we'd have a better idea that builds from it.

                But I do have to admit, it amazes me at how quickly we are to just write something off with "yeah but" and "if"'s without actually trying it or as I said in the original post practicing. Offer me a better solution for a Amp breach then, offer me anything that addresses what I am addressing short of a complete redeploy to the warpgate and Gal drop with no results. I can nay say anything posted on the forums.........but that isn't really constructive is it? But then again we could always do what we have always done........with the same results.

                I'm proposing taking 1 squad and taking a Amp Station, if it doesn't work you have another or several squads that can come and help. Let's stop trying to put the fire out and like Ironman think of ways we can fan the flames higher.


                • #9
                  Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                  I love the idea of using the gate diffusers. VS did that once on us to amazing effect, all of a sudden out of nowhere they had 2-3 squads inside the building, with the shields still up and there was nothing we could really do about it.

                  Opinions will differ as to kit makeups, personally I would say to add a couple Maxes into the mix, or do what IronMan suggested. In fact, I have been talking about Employing Smoke at the Squad Level for quite a while now (that post is from March), but have rarely if ever gotten any takers. Now I'm afraid they nerfed the smoke quite a bit but not sure on that point.

                  At any rate RAGE, I would be happy to try it some time, I can even throw a few certs into getting the gate diffuser on my Sundy. SS or whoever said to use the mortars on said Sundy + possibly Harassers to add to the firepower I think has the right idea also.
                  "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw


                  • #10
                    Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                    I'm not writing anything off. I want to try it if the cert logistics can be sorted. In fact, I think it's a good idea and would love to have case studies to work with. I'd appreciate if you didn't slag me for being negative. I point out the potential issues in strategic discussions like this so we can brainstorm our ways around them. If your idea can't hold its own against basic critical feedback, it's not worth discussing.

                    In this case, I'm saying that you will NOT take an amp station start-to-finish with one squad from that position unless they ignore you. The control point is probably the least favourable defensive position in the entire base, and the 1-2 squad sized proportional defense is going to overwhelm a single squad that is in such a position for the length of a 7 minute cap. You're spread out AND you'll be vulnerable to attrition against an enemy that is largely immune to attrition, which is a very harsh combination. That doesn't make it a poor strategy or not worth attempting, it just can't be the whole story.

                    My thoughts on that?

                    1) Use it as a distracting second front that causes the defenders to overreact and turn inward, allowing the main assault force to crush the outer defenders. With a good squad that's well entrenched you can frustrate them for a long time... maybe even long enough for friendlies to bring down the shields and relieve you.
                    2) Pull tanks on the inside and use them to guard the shields. This will only be a delaying tactic because that's an awkward place to use armour and they'll eventually get a brick of C4 or a decimator thrown at them, but it'll keep them at bay. In the same way, Furies or Bulldogs on the Sunderer will do the same job.
                    3) Alternatively, have a second squad in there. I'm much more confident in two squads holding that bay than one, since they'd actually be able to cover the two main entranceways. Yes, the enemy is more likely to know something is up, but that's a threat few outfits will bother responding to in force unless they're very forward thinking.
                    4) Be careful about pulling the engy turrets back. While you can concentrate your force that way, the central/point area of that room is the worst bit for defenders. If you pull the turrets back, attackers can use the stairs for cover, and their line of sight will have your whole team (and the backs of the engies on the OTHER staircase). I think it'd be more effective with the engineers directly covering the stairs, even though that badly spreads out the force.

                    I appreciate the desire to use a small force in an interesting way to defeat a larger force, and it's how I prefer to run things. The key to that, however, is stacking force multipliers--tight squads, good coordination, good terrain, close spawns, the right equipment, etc. Unfortunately, that particular room is the wrong terrain, and you'd need to stack a LOT of other force multipliers to make up for that, and given the tight requirements of the shield diffuser (squad constrained to a single room, no reinforcements, can't pull a spawn sunderer once inside due to deployment zone limitations, enemy has convenient access, etc) you're working against some badly stacked odds.

                    We should totally give it a go, though. The only reason I think we might not have really done it is because it's a rare cert and difficult to rely on.


                    • #11
                      Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                      I'm not slagging you for be negative, I was just pointing it out. It's obvious we are of 2 different view points. But when someone says "In this case, I'm saying that you will NOT take an amp station start-to-finish with one squad from that position unless they ignore you." it's hard to ignore the negativity.

                      Have you been to a Amp Station and placed turrets on the platform to study their field of fire? I have.
                      Have you timed the distance from the gates to the main building? I have.
                      Have you spent any time what so ever actually studying the design to determine the validity of it? I have.

                      But do I have 1 question, in reference to your last statement......How do you know it can't be relied on if you have never done it?


                      • #12
                        Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                        I will actually love to see this work and I feel you have a strong candidate operation of a sort of 'special' flavor. If this maneuver is done before and Amp station is in direct conflict (ie it's sub-station is under attack and not friendly yet) you serve to potentially disrupt the enemy in ways that rarely occur once they are solidly entrenched inside the station.

                        Now the caveat is that if the Amp Station's sub-station is under heavy attack you can be sure that the Amp Station has a sizeable force in its greater area. If an organized hostile platoon/outfit is in the region they can feasibly fall back from the sub-station defense to wipe you out. For this reason I'd suggest scaling this up to at least a half platoon sized group; preferably a three squad affair. I understand your argument for making as little of a heat signature as possible but in these such battles subtly does not win, surprise certainly can, but not subtle nuance.

                        I'd love to work with you and try to write up a 'formal' operative manual to such a maneuver and its many methods to approach it.

                        Most critical concepts (imo) will be:
                        -Gate Diffuser (which in my experience is incredibly buggy) level 4+
                        -Surprise, 'sudden', attack
                        -Properly timed with the other forces fighting around the station
                        -Methods to increase longevity of the attacking force (no AMS/ no Beacon, no squad deploy)
                        [tab]- Revive/Healing
                        -Ammo Resupply[/tab]


                        • #13
                          Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                          That sounds good to me Wyatt, there have a couple point brought up that I think need more investigation,

                          Smoke - the use of smoke is greatly underused, whereas I do feel that most people have the IR scope rarely do they employ it. Which means after the initial onslaught they would have to re-gear for it. Which of course buys us time
                          Bulldogs - Bulldogs on the Sunderer would provide additional firepower and to that ends I'd like to experiment with the Sunderers placement within the main building. My initial thought is next to the flight pad elevator to provide max support for the stairways and in that position the outermost Engy turrets can take care of most infantry attempting to get to the Sundy. But I'm not sure if it would actually fit in that location without the bulldogs being jammed into the catwalk and will have to try it.

                          Engy's are important but the most important of all will be the medics. If the Medic's have revive grenades and fully certed medic tools then I think we could hold out for the time necessary to cap. Revive grenades will be for those guys in the Sundy when and if it gets taken down. And with them being Engy's themselves they could set up anti-infantry turrets to continue laying suppression fire.

                          The lattice system on both Indar and Esamir (and coming soon to Amerish) dictate that the adjacent territory be under siege, otherwise the bunny hop is useless. Most if not all of the enemy forces will be defending that location. The surprise for the enemy will come from when they try to pull armor from the Amp Station and see that the vehicle terms are locked down by us. Once that information filters through the enemy command structure they will have to make a decision to either concede the adjacent territory and concentrate on us, or focus more attention on the adjacent territory. Personally I can only see 1 outcome. They concentrate more attention to the adjacent territory and forget about us. Because if they concede the territory not only do they have to contend with us but the greater force coming from the adjacent territory as well. Once the adjacent is about 1 minute from capping I can see them redeploying to the Amp station and that is when all of the preparations have to be in order.


                          • #14
                            Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                            With smoke in mind maybe we could equip all Sunderers with NV/Thermal optics? I'm not a big fan of the Bulldog, it is classified as a mortar for a reason, and think that the M12 Kobalt and M40 Fury (with lvl 3+ Mag Extension) offer the most coverage at the close ranges dictated here. That being said we should not rule out the possibility that a stock M20 Basilisk might perform well in these situations too.

                            Mineguard might have to be mandatory. I do not think Blockade Armor does much to disperse C4 which would be the second most common critical threat.

                            I certainly agree that parking at the elevator is a key point. The only means to get on the top of the Amp Station is through those elevators or the ones at the CP (otherwise air drop but that takes time). No matter what though the Sunderer(s) should be facing towards or away from the SCU to allow the gunners the widest possible coverage.

                            Knowing when to attempt this is a good question. It might actually be paramount for, in the larger scale versions, a whole fire team/squad to already be fighting along the walls and defensibles and for them to be a sort of Recon element as much as they are an agitating/preparatory force? If done via bunny hop it would hopefully coincide with a strong push on the 'SubStations' from other friendly forces.

                            Its a high risk operation but its also has a terribly high reward.

                            I just fear that this operation's success requires that the vehicle bay be unoccupied by a large defending force. Seeing as the No-Deploy Zones are just one way on Esamir attempting this there might be difficult if the enemy is given any time to properly defend (IE spawn a Spawn Sunderer in the base).


                            • #15
                              Re: Amp Station - Fast Break Technique

                              Originally posted by Rageq3a View Post
                              I'm not slagging you for be negative, I was just pointing it out. It's obvious we are of 2 different view points. But when someone says "In this case, I'm saying that you will NOT take an amp station start-to-finish with one squad from that position unless they ignore you." it's hard to ignore the negativity.

                              Have you been to a Amp Station and placed turrets on the platform to study their field of fire? I have.
                              Have you timed the distance from the gates to the main building? I have.
                              Have you spent any time what so ever actually studying the design to determine the validity of it? I have.

                              But do I have 1 question, in reference to your last statement......How do you know it can't be relied on if you have never done it?
                              When I say it can't be relied on, I mean as a squad or platoon leader it's not a common enough cert that you can rely on someone having unlocked it. IE, it's not a commonly available tool.

                              As for turret positions, distances, and studying the design (the latter of which I've done, thanks) I don't see how those are relevant to anything I've said. What I've said, and I think is very difficult to argue against, is that with one squad in that position in that situation you are at a MASSIVE tactical disadvantage and it will make it almost impossible to hold that position against a determined assault. If you pull off a start-to-finish cap from there, either the enemy didn't care, the skill differential between you and the enemy is massive, or you got very, very lucky. Expecting that particular tactic to achieve victory on its own in any sort of reliable way is not realistic. It's not inconceivable, but I'd give it poor odds. A single organized squad, or two to three zerg like ones, should be expected to eventually win that fight, let alone more drastic tactics like the last-minute gal drops the other factions like to use. For a major base, the enemy WILL respond (and will escalate if stymied) unless they're so heavily invested on other continents or bases that they've given up caring, in which case the infiltration team will largely be speeding up a ghost cap (which is a valuable service on its own)

                              You bring a strategic advantage (opening a second front) and have an opportunity to surprise an enemy, but it's brittle and should be executed with that in mind. Were I a platoon leader executing this strategy, I would plan for that team to eventually be overwhelmed and would focus on quickly breaking through to take advantage of the interesting short term strategic advantage they would be providing.

                              I don't see why you feel this strategy has to be a knockout punch and not part of a larger plan. I think it fills such a role admirably, and if I have the equipment on hand I'd love to try it and use it to destabilize the enemy and stop a strong outer defense from ever forming. I have difficulty seeing how you're percieving "I think it's a great idea and want to integrate it into a larger plan" as negativity.




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