Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

    This worked wonders when I tried it a few days ago, although I'm not sure whether I was alone using the tactic or not.

    I was in VCO's platoon during a bio-lab alert on Esamir, as the VS pushed us back along the North, and I was thinking about what people have been bringing up on the forums recently: the predictability of the enemy. I've seen VS do some impressive MAX crashes, breaking through set up bio-lab defenses even when people can see it coming (large numbers gathering at the sub-base, a lull in the fight as no one uses the teleporter or jump pad). So what can you do?

    Tons of players charging out of a couple doorways screams for explosives to me. So I grabbed C4 and sat on top of a building, just watching the teleporter doorway, ready to react. Sure enough, a whole bunch of MAXes, followed by engies, followed by medics came streaming through. I dropped 2 C4, each took out 3 or more MAXes plus infantry, I followed up with a flashbang, then dropped down and shot the medics trying to revive them. I died, but with so much disruption and so many dead that the NC easily finished them off. Attempt 1: successful.

    Then I remembered the grenade bandolier and switched to 2 frag grenades instead. The fight dragged on while I sat at the same spot, doing my best to stay alive and watch the doorway. To my great surprise, someone in VOIP mentioned this very tactic, something like "NC are starting to realise they should mass C4". Perhaps I hadn't been the only one doing it.

    With only a few exceptions, the VS were stuck in the teleporter room for a long while. Eventually, they MAX crashed a second time and, once again, I dropped C4 on their heads, then threw grenades on the bodies nearest the exit to the teleporter room (for the Medics), and dropped down to help finish off those at the front. Many kills. Attempt 2: successful.

    I didn't see anyone else doing the same, maybe I was too focused. I saw the regular, copious amounts of explosives at the doorway in-between the crashes, so people definitely had C4.


    In any case, I think this tactic has enormous potential if organised by several or more people (extra players to account for deaths right before or during the crash). LA's seem the only reasonable choice to me, as they can put the C4 exactly where it's needed with less chance of being stopped. Mines and C4 pre-placed at a chokepoint are liable to be destroyed early in the fight and produce teamkills.

    In short, if a MAX crash takes out the usual defense, we need set-ups that counter them.



    |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

  • #2
    Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

    I like it Jengles, I especially like the unpredictability of it. You had a flash bang version of it in a bio-lab not to long ago as well. I think it was "C" point. I'm not a big "LA" user but would be more than willing to try it.

    Of course the other beauty of it is that places those MAX's on cool down. If the defense is big enough then it allows time to take the base they are teleporting from as well. But that's a secondary objective.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

      I like it, though MAX crashes can be hard to pin down prior to being launched. On the new lattices you can watch troop concentration, but even then satellites usually have both a launch pad and a teleporter to keep in mind. If you know it's coming, though... C4 and then a follow up to drop the medics is a great way to deal with it and we should find a way to make it more effective. MAX crashes typically suffer to attrition and are banking on that initial concentration of force to push them through, so any early disruption will blunt the crash.

      The main things to worry about are:
      1) Not all the MAXes are coming at once. They'll stream out over time. If you take out the first 4, there'll be another 12 behind them along with support troops.
      2) Medics will be trying to pick them up



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

        Originally posted by Rageq3a View Post
        I like it Jengles, I especially like the unpredictability of it. You had a flash bang version of it in a bio-lab not to long ago as well. I think it was "C" point. I'm not a big "LA" user but would be more than willing to try it.

        Of course the other beauty of it is that places those MAXs on cool down. If the defense is big enough then it allows time to take the base they are teleporting from as well. But that's a secondary objective.
        Ah, that was more about room clearing: throw a flashbang into a room, enter through a different doorway if possible (those not stunned are watching the one you were just at) and C4 a group of enemies. Run out, throw in another stun, enter and shoot the medics while they revive. It'll still require a push from the other NC to fully clear a well defended room but it's a similar disruption.

        In this case it's all about a single large mass of infantry and MAXs out in the open, so you're free to jetpack above them and grenade later - I.E. controlled explosive to get mass casualties, frags to keep away those following and medics. Although I wouldn't mind a flashbang if we had multiple LAs as it'll catch people the frag won't, or that don't die.

        Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
        I like it, though MAX crashes can be hard to pin down prior to being launched. On the new lattices you can watch troop concentration, but even then satellites usually have both a launch pad and a teleporter to keep in mind. If you know it's coming, though... C4 and then a follow up to drop the medics is a great way to deal with it and we should find a way to make it more effective. MAX crashes typically suffer to attrition and are banking on that initial concentration of force to push them through, so any early disruption will blunt the crash.

        The main things to worry about are:
        1) Not all the MAXes are coming at once. They'll stream out over time. If you take out the first 4, there'll be another 12 behind them along with support troops.
        2) Medics will be trying to pick them up
        If you have 6 LAs per sub-base you'd easily be able to watch the corresponding teleporter and airpad. Even if some of you die / fail, that's still a lot of eyes and firepower.

        MAX crashes are all about throwing everyone out very quickly, so they're as bunched up as you're ever going to see infantry. When I did this I put 1 C4 at the front of the charge and 1 near the teleporter doorway to get the guys in the middle, as it were. Some people don't die and some, including medics, are at the back. This is why more LAs, possibly 3 staggered waves of pairs, would maximise the potential. Also, everyone else is supposed to counter rush and keep the enemies down.



        |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

          We'd need to ensure C4 placement was inconspicuous, to avoid having them shoot the bricks from the shield



          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

            I attempted a similar scale version of this on my own as an engineer. I abused the fact that you can place multiple mines of different types and placed mines around the 'fatal funnel' of the Shield Generator room (the three doorways all close to each other). I would take the time to place AP mines right around the doors, AT mines in trigger proximity of each other more inside, and finally C4 in an area to trip the AT dominoes.

            Its resource intensive and relatively easy to thwart (EMP grens or grenades) but it has huge damage potentials. The down side is that the killzone is far too close to important objectives.

            I like your tactic more. Its simpler and cleaner. I think this form of area denial is prime and should be capitalized upon. The LA class is often underused but it is a very solid combat kit, particularly in biolab defenses (where the verticality is a huge).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

              Something I've been doing, but not during a Max crash is using the under barrel grande launcher. What I have found is the first nade takes out the Engy and damages the Max, the second takes out the Max. Once you get the lobbing arch down you could have 4 Engy's taking out a ton of Maxes at distance. That's why I love Bio Dome alerts and have a Engy kit for just them.

              But Jengles your plan is brilliant and we need to practice it some.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                The cool thing is that the C4 could be triggered by the UGL.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                  Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
                  We'd need to ensure C4 placement was inconspicuous, to avoid having them shoot the bricks from the shield
                  To be clear, I'm not advocating to pre-place explosives - we could try it but I doubt it'd work. What I'm saying is that during a MAX crash there is a brief window where all the enemies are out in the open, completely bunched up and facing straight ahead. LAs can take advantage of this by throwing C4 from above, although they need to be watching the teleporter room / air pad so they never miss the chance.

                  Actually, a mix of flashbangs and frag grenades would definitely be best just in case a significant number of enemies make it inside a building so the LAs can move on to room clearing.

                  Originally posted by Ytman View Post
                  I attempted a similar scale version of this on my own as an engineer. I abused the fact that you can place multiple mines of different types and placed mines around the 'fatal funnel' of the Shield Generator room (the three doorways all close to each other). I would take the time to place AP mines right around the doors, AT mines in trigger proximity of each other more inside, and finally C4 in an area to trip the AT dominoes.

                  Its resource intensive and relatively easy to thwart (EMP grens or grenades) but it has huge damage potentials. The down side is that the killzone is far too close to important objectives.

                  I like your tactic more. Its simpler and cleaner. I think this form of area denial is prime and should be capitalized upon. The LA class is often underused but it is a very solid combat kit, particularly in biolab defenses (where the verticality is a huge).
                  I specialised in setting explosive traps in BF2142 but they're really hard to do in this game. You need to know exactly how the enemy are likely to approach an objective, to hide the explosives or throw them as they get close (radar scanners for the mini-map really helps) and to avoid teamkills.

                  Thus far, maps and player counts have proved too large for me to predict the flow, while anywhere that's bleeding obvious (bio-labs) runs the risk of blowing up teammates that had no idea what you were planning. Finally, C4 is the only inconspicuous explosive, with the added benefit of placing on walls or ceilings, but also has the smallest explosion radius. I should really invest in more explosives for the engineer (suit slot) and see if that helps much.

                  So far spawn rooms and teleporter rooms (before they flip) are the easiest. The majority of spawn rooms have no tactical use, just kills for the sake of kills; however, bio-labs are the only exception. Now that the spawn shields drop before the enemy have capped the base there is no imminent need to rush out. You could organise your forces, perhaps a MAX crash, at the back of the room then wait for the shields to drop and the enemy to charge through several small doors. When they do, blow them to kingdom come and only then rush out to re-secure against whoever is left.

                  As for teleporter rooms, you have to concede the sub-base before it flips and set the explosives up. As far as mines, it's a small room with few places to hide them and the first guy through is liable to detonate everything. I'm still experimenting with C4: what happens if you wired the roof only?


                  While I'm at it, I may as well note a behaviour I've seen recently, also spotted by Al and others, that proximity mines seem to have a delay on them. If you run over fast enough it won't quite kill you. So if you hear the "beep" do not stop sprinting, or run around some cover.

                  Originally posted by Rageq3a View Post
                  Something I've been doing, but not during a Max crash is using the under barrel grande launcher. What I have found is the first nade takes out the Engy and damages the Max, the second takes out the Max. Once you get the lobbing arch down you could have 4 Engy's taking out a ton of Maxes at distance. That's why I love Bio Dome alerts and have a Engy kit for just them.

                  But Jengles your plan is brilliant and we need to practice it some.
                  Great idea! I've not used the UGL so I wouldn't know how effective it is. That could certainly be something to ask the other squads to make sure they have and, if it works, it could be standard for Bio Lab defenses.

                  I'd love to try this sometime. I still need a mic though.

                  Originally posted by Ytman View Post
                  The cool thing is that the C4 could be triggered by the UGL.
                  That could help if the LAs die.
                  Last edited by MrJengles; 09-11-2013, 12:38 PM.



                  |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                    Since reading RAGE's suggestions re: underbarrel grenade launcher in this and other posts, I have been using it to great effect in Bio Labs as well as while SLing. When doing the latter, I sort of find a spot to hang back and direct my squad, all the while blooping grenades into the AO with an ammo pack at my feet. It's like a local small artillery. lol

                    And yes, placing C4 on walls (or even roof maybe?) might be a good spot as it's less likely to be seen (or prematurely accidentally shot and detonated).
                    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                      As far as mines I can tell you my experience with them.

                      Tank mines: while in the Harrasser if your in turbo then they will will do minimum damage to you. I think that the speed at which your moving has a lot to do with the detonation sequence and you've passed them before they explode.
                      Proxy mines: If your cloaked as an Infil then they will explode but not do much damage while your running. If you are not cloaked then they will kill you whether your running or not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                        So what changes they had done a while ago with the AI mines was that they increased the damage cone/radius (and I think raw damage) but increased a delay fuse.

                        This means that its more lethal to groups of people but less lethal to a single person. The way I'd exploit this is to double 'stack' my mines, not on top of each other, but one ahead of the other so that as the first one detonates it automatically triggers the second one which should be where the person who triggered the mine should be.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                          That's interesting to note re: recent timer and damage changes.

                          Al and I, in skulking around the map placing booby traps, would frequently set up "chains" (usually 2s actually) of prox mines, along with C4 and tank mines, to achieve just such an effect (taking advantage of the fact you can lay all your explosives of one type and then go resupply and lay down all explosives of a second type, and the first type will stay).

                          Jengles, I highly recommend certing up your Engineer suit if you like to place traps (if you have not done so already) as it is so much fun cruising around with a backpack full of explosives. :) Originally, I did it for the (4) C4 so I could take out a Sundy in one go, but the way the certs progress you sort of get greater capacity in everything (tank, personnel mines, and C4).

                          I think StarStriker is our other resident explosives aficionado. We should all get together some time. It would be "a blast."

                          /cue Caruso

                          lol
                          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                            Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post
                            I think StarStriker is our other resident explosives aficionado. We should all get together some time. It would be "a blast."
                            http://instantrimshot.com/



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Possible Counter To MAX Crash: Mass C4

                              I was thinking more like the beginning of CSI with The Who song, etc. lol

                              But I like that link. Mentally bookmarked. lol
                              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X