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Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

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  • Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

    I was thinking we might try a different approach to the alerts the next time we're involved in one that focuses on assisting besieged friendly forces rather than going for direct captures. Essentially we'd look for NC territories that are under heavy attack and move in with vehicles (mix of armor, sunderers, harassers, etc) and some airpower (reavers, liberations and possibly one battle gal). The key would be attacking the enemy from their rear with primary targets being all sunderers and any other vehicles that are supporting the attack. Once the attackers were driven off or destroyed we'd regroup and look for the next target to assist in.

    Our main focus would be to keep the pressure off the defending outfits and let them push out and do the majority of the heavy lifting capturing the other territories while we ride in like the cavalry to save the day. A key element is that the unit would have to be mobile and ready to move immediately to render assistance anywhere in NC territory.

  • #2
    Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

    YES!

    In my opinion there are two strong ways of holding a base:

    1) Conceding the last base minutes before it falls and setting up a defense with AV nests, AA nests, Armor etc. making full use of terrain.
    2) Moving vehicles and infantry from another base and approaching from a safe direction.

    If you don't fall back fast enough the base effectively just becomes camped. There are lots of grinds where you eventually win despite that but it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work. Why hamstring yourself by not being able to pull vehicles (they die one by one as they leave the bay)? Why fight your way out of the spawn rooms, through the base and charge straight at the Armor and deployed Sunderers hoping that your tide of infantry is stronger than their combined arms?

    It seems much easier to spawn somewhere else in order to get at your real target as fast as possible: the AMS Sunderers (and beacons). Once they're dealt with the enemy push starts to die out. This effectively means asset destruction, since an assaulting force relies on Armor and Air to protect the Sunderers. Still, you can get everyone organised safely at another base, then approach from the flanks or rear while the enemy is focused on spawn camping.

    I know this is confined to Alerts but I'd love to put into regular practice anything we learn.
    Last edited by MrJengles; 09-16-2013, 10:49 AM.



    |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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    • #3
      Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

      Whether going for a direct capture or "breaking a siege", the way to assault any base involves lots of air and armor to protect the Sundies around the perimeter (we are talking about large battles here, +/- platoon on each side). But yes, it is futile some times to spawn in and defend if the enemy has already camped the spawn and you can't even get out. I often think of the solution in terms of Medieval castle sieges, a "double encirclement" if you will, whereby the relieving force comes from an exterior base and breaks the siege of the enemies who have the spawn camped, allowing the infantry inside to get out and retake the flag.

      I like your idea and I am not trying to sound negative here, but the only problem I see is that the NC forces (during an alert) can often times be stretched pretty thin as it is. Working in the NCC on a continental level, there are times when we are outpopped when we simply do not have enough assets to allocate around the map to deal with the enemy. That is what happened Friday night, everyone was up to their eyeballs in TR and we couldn't pull anyone off of anywhere lest that base fall.

      Having said that, at one point on Friday TAS came to our aid with about 15 Lightnings and saved our bacon (again, breaking the siege from the outside). And, generally speaking, I think the NC (and TG in particular) do not make enough good use of armor any more. It used to be that, when the chips were down, we would fall back to the warpgate and everybody in the platoon would pull armor and roll out. Remember that? But we seem to not do this any more, and why is that?

      I think this has more to do with preferences of individual PLs than anything else (Al and E-Male prefer infantry only platoons, but will allow specialty units usually if you ask to form one, while I am more inclined to airborne infantry and CAS). Not pointing any fingers or saying anyone is wrong or right, just pointing out tendencies. Phaelah was a big armor guy and whenever he was PL, we would run a lot of armor (sometimes even breaking a siege, almost exactly as discussed here). I don't personally enjoy running in armor, but of course I would follow along (usually in a dual AA ammo Sundy) in support of the platoon. And, actually it was a bit comforting to be in a big group like that, and fun rolling out in a big zerg of vehicles and smashing into an enemy zerg (much better than being spawn camped to death, at any rate, and reading all the TR/VS taunts in /yell (they are so tough with 75% pop, aren't they?) lol). But perhaps we need someone to step up and push for more armor usage (or our usual PLs, myself included, to include more armor into the mix)? I suppose my point is that PS2 is a big COMBINED ARMS game, and the VS and TR factions seem to do a much better job of utilizing COMBINED ARMS than we (the NC, particularly TG) do.

      Sunder Military Gaming (SMG) have dedicated Air, Armor, and Infantry groups, and I think that is the best way to do it (we never did get around to doing that combined op with them, maybe we should). I would say TG strong suit is infantry to be sure, with a pretty decent air wing at this point, but I have always felt we were lacking in the armor department. I think all we need is for one (or a few) people to step up more often and start doing dedicated armor squads. Personally, I am going to say right now that I am going to try and involve more armor in the mix when I am PLing. On FNFs when we have done this, everyone had a blast and we had great successes.

      I say, let's do this some time, alert or not. It's a lot of fun being the cavalry and helping out friendlies. I'm sure with a backbone of TG, we could get a whole platoon doing this, maybe 1-2 squads of air and 1-2 squads combined armor / sundies / and AA. And that is a big ol can of whoop-(you know what), especially when working together. The only thing is, armor moves a lot slower than air, so we would really need to focus I think on making sure we stayed together and supporting each other.
      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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      • #4
        Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

        I would like to see this also include Phoenix rockets, due to the fact that they can not only be fired from in cover but at targets that are behind cover as well.

        We did this when we were outnumbered at the crown with about 4 guys with phoenix rockets that spawned at one of Zurvan amp's pump stations and firing continually up a hill and around a piece of cover. The 2-3 engineers and the 2 squads of infantry where incapable of stopping us from destroying it and continuing the assault on the crown at the same time.

        I could only imagine the damage that 6, 8, or even 12 phoenix launchers could do.

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        • #5
          Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

          Randy, I think the "if we pull one platoon from anywhere to reinforce elsewhere we lose the base" scenario can be looked at as a failure case. If you've gotten to that point, you're already on the mat and the ref is counting to 10. I think there might be something to the idea of taking advantage of the capture times as a "buffer" on enemy forces where they're effectively neutralized without having to be engaged, and start thinking of controlling the map in terms of "juggling" multiple fronts, kicking up a buffer on one base and then surging in to flip it back at the last moment. This is essentially what the TR and VS have been doing to us for the last few months.

          It'd be well suited to an airborne group for sheer reaction time. Drop in, slug it out and push them back for a few minutes, and have CAS/armour units roll up their logistics and armour to remove the building blocks underneath their assault. Once the fight's momentum is reversed, you need to start looking at the continent again and start looking for other places where a sudden surge of friendly forces can reverse momentum. Keep juggling, keep those balls in the air, if you fumble a ball just focus on keeping the others in the air (IE, don't get pulled into a slugfest and stop being able to support the faction elsewhere. This is something the Enclave did really well while they were around.

          On the same lines, we should start thinking about how we can get the other factions to fumble their own juggling. Getting them to commit everything to one fight and then trapping them in a slugfest (win or lose) would be one way, allowing us to roll up the rest of the map. Another way would be to keep them busy on enough fronts that they can't HELP but fumble one or two bases. Yet another would be to disrupt their ability to reverse momentum on a specific base, something like the heavy interceptors I've babbled about (but haven't put my money where my mouth is and organized a trial yet, urg) or maybe proactively placing heavy AA units in their expected path. It's probably some combination of those where we'll find the winning combination, and counters to stop the enemy from trying the same...



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          • #6
            Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

            Yes, the VS and TR (most especially TR) are very good at "surge reinforcing." Or, as you put it, using that cap time as a buffer to keep enemy troops (us) occupied, and therefore not capping other bases.

            CML understands this, they are very good about redeploying quickly to hotspots around the map, usually by air dropping from warpgate.
            "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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            • #7
              Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

              Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
              On the same lines, we should start thinking about how we can get the other factions to fumble their own juggling [...] and counters to stop the enemy from trying the same...
              And therein: metagame.



              |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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              • #8
                Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                One anecdotal reference for a RRU was an encounter I had observed on Esamir. The NC forces were held at Jaeger Crossing (before Esamir facelift) and were being pushed on to from Jeager's Fist. It was a large scale battle. Platoon sizes either side with substantial AMS support for the enemy.

                A two Galaxies, each almost fully loaded, moved to exactly over the enemy's Primary AMS site where two AMS-Sunderers (one deployed on stationary) were shielded by a hill. This was a low altitude drop of around two squad's strength. Within seconds both Sunderer's were destroyed and the hill from which the main arm of the enemy push was coming from was secured by the group.

                The Galaxy provided no fire support on the drop-site and it was entirely accomplished by those two squads.

                Something similar could be toyed with as a mean's to deny the enemy continued offensive ability.

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                • #9
                  Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                  Not to take away from the original topic, but that is interesting YT, and we could do it with a squad or two until we scaled up to the full platoon doing the main tactic outlined in this thread. Besides, you know I'm all for it if it involves airborne infantry. :)

                  I did try this the other night (armor + air cav platoon) but the conditions were not right for it. We were pushed back almost to our warpgate and so pretty quickly ran out of resources. But I will give it another go some other time.
                  "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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                  • #10
                    Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                    A RRU could be deployed in such a fashion, tho'. You don't just need to reserve it for halting enemy momentum in surge defenses, you can also use it for shifting the momentum in a stalement.



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                    • #11
                      Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                      Im down for being in some armor squads. However I feel inclined to express a concern of mine that stresses me greatly:

                      Player 1 grabs good Heavy tank with great secondary. Costs 350ish resources
                      Player 2 grabs average tank. Costs 350ish resources.
                      Neither tanks have a gunner.
                      focusing on there own survival both are destroyed from sources that overwhelmed them or they could not identify.
                      Both players have heavy tanks on cool downs
                      Both players are out 350ish resources that could have been used more efficiently.

                      My thoughts: Every tank should have gunners. Even if its bare bones basilisk, this gun kills base turrets faster than the main turret! Its amazing! That aside, two players focusing on the survival of one tank significantly raises its survival rate and often sacrifices very little fire power to do so. It also helps prevent traffic jams in the middle of combat as there are less tanks maneuvering around. Any way i have other ideas, ill probably go in more detail via a tactical playbook or something later. Just my initial two cents.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                        Originally posted by VLAD View Post
                        Im down for being in some armor squads. However I feel inclined to express a concern of mine that stresses me greatly:

                        Player 1 grabs good Heavy tank with great secondary. Costs 350ish resources
                        Player 2 grabs average tank. Costs 350ish resources.
                        Neither tanks have a gunner.
                        focusing on there own survival both are destroyed from sources that overwhelmed them or they could not identify.
                        Both players have heavy tanks on cool downs
                        Both players are out 350ish resources that could have been used more efficiently.

                        My thoughts: Every tank should have gunners. Even if its bare bones basilisk, this gun kills base turrets faster than the main turret! Its amazing! That aside, two players focusing on the survival of one tank significantly raises its survival rate and often sacrifices very little fire power to do so. It also helps prevent traffic jams in the middle of combat as there are less tanks maneuvering around. Any way i have other ideas, ill probably go in more detail via a tactical playbook or something later. Just my initial two cents.
                        +1
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                          Im sure almost everyone knows that I love my Vanguard and always join the armor squad. I have dropped almost all of my certs on it and logged in about 20 hours. The reason why I stay alive for so long is because I try to engage the enemy from as far as possible. Theres been times when im amost 1000km (dont know if thats the right distance measurement in ps2) away just shelling with my AP turret. That doesnt mean I dont know how to fight and manuver up close.

                          Yes having a gunner is better if they know what they are doing. I think having 2 tanks instead of 1 is the better option. If one of the two tanks goes down the driver can just hop in the second tank. I've ran this tactic with Zapkron a couple of times and its very affective. I would love to do some tank gameplay with you and come up with some new fresh ideas for TG since lately the armor presence in TG has died down a little. Or maybe im just logging in at wrong time. My in game name is the same: Ghostshooter101

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                          • #14
                            Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                            Originally posted by ghostshooter101 View Post
                            Zapkron
                            :(

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                            • #15
                              Re: Rapid Response Unit for Alerts

                              Originally posted by Zepkron View Post
                              :(
                              You havent met Zapkron yet?

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