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Breach and Clear techniques

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  • Breach and Clear techniques

    So the other night, we dropped into The Bastion hoping to capture it and move on. We had our squads split up along capture points when finally, the RGQT outfit came and began to fight back. They pushed through their spawn and continued to move out to B (Western Point). We stood, ready for attack when they suddenly threw around 3 concussion and flash grenades, then their Maxes mowed us down, then engineers came in, fixing them up. Next followed by the medics who healed engineers who had taken damage. The point I am trying to make is that I feel that we should become this organized as well. Although some squad leads may yell "If you got flash grenades, throw em'" that is not enough. Within seconds we were wiped by one squad who had breached us and I took the time to think "How can we make our breaches this organized?" It really is simple, and thee is some coordination involved to pull it off.

    Once the leader of said group announces they are going to breach and clear a building or area, classes must be pulled, it will consisted of:
    -MAX Unit x1 (or as leader seems fit)
    -Heavy Assault X2 (With Decimators to take out enemy maxes as infantry)
    -Engineer X2 (For ammo incase you have to hold out)
    -Combat Medic X3 (For health and revives f course, also Rez grenades)
    -Infiltrator X1 (Use to know where enemy is with upgraded sensor darts)
    -If any units are left over, have them switch classes based on the units needed
    -Also brig at least 2 people with concussion/flash grenades for breach

    To pull this off, there has to be a lot of comma going. The squad leader must give orders without being interrupted and all squad members must listen. You must push the building together so no one goes down and stack up on the door. The Max will stand ext to the door with Heavies behind him, behind Heavies, the engineers and infil will stand prepped for breach. Here is where the magic happens. You may follow the following steps quickly with no haste.
    1. The Infil will confirm the amount of enemies by placing sensor darts down with engineers supplying ammo.
    2. Once they are out, the people with flash/ concussion grenades throw according to they position and Maxes will push in first.
    3. Once Maxes make a successful entry, the Heaves will shield up, checking corners and assisting in taking out Infantry/Maxes.
    4. Next, engineers move in, leaving ammo for the Infil and pushing with medics, repairing the max an healing downed infantry.
    5. Check for survivors, with the Infil throwing more darts outside, check for any resistance.

    Once you breach the base or building, you must work on holding it by spamming sensor darts and sticking together, eliminating atone who comes. You should now have a successful breach and clear.

    -classes will be changed according to the circumstances but may always be given to by the squad leader.
    -Of course this is not the finished product, I am very eager to hear what you guys have to say on this so we can further improve this.
    Questions about those who deserve it!
    "Remember, no survivors" -Myself and probably what explains my methods the most

  • #2
    Re: Breach and Clear techniques

    The key to this will be practise. Precise kit loadouts and procedures are nice, but drilling will make the difference. I think it's also crucial to consider how we'll manage people who don't check the forums or aren't part of our outfit who won't be able to take part in any scheduled practise.

    In my mind, an effective breaching procedure will need to be quickly communicated to pubbies in our squads and able to cope with non-ideal squad loadouts as the situation demands. KISS seems the most relevant principle to keep in mind here.

    So far, I like what you've got. MAXes, then heavies, then everyone else, with balanced squads (medics and engies) and an infil for the sensor dart advantage.

    (edit) Also, we should keep in mind that a breach will be close quarters combat, and by nature will be VERY fluid, often even beyond the squad leader's C&C abilities. I think breaching tactics should focus upon the initial breach instead of the follow up, because it's the place where the squad leader can exert the most control and be most assured of squad cohesion.


    • #3
      Re: Breach and Clear techniques

      Summary of Post
      I think breaching hostile buildings is something that is important, and that can be done better. Thanks for starting this Bolivian. And thanks for your input Starstriker. There has been a lot of discussion before this on CQC tactics. The problem is we have trouble drilling enough to learn a complex plan. I believe a simplified plan for room clearing is best.

      Thanks for Bolivian and Starstriker.
      I agree with Starstriker coordination/leadership is most possible before breach and at the start. After that it is gonna get chaotic for a bit as you clear the room. I agree with Bolivian about the mix of units: max/heavies, a few engineers, medics, and an infiltrator for the sensor dart.

      Review of Previous Literature:
      We did a post on close quarters / room clearing tactics a while back. ( I will summarize the conclusions as best I can here, so we don’t rebuild the wheel. Feel free to read the whole topic if you have time.
      a.) Move with a buddy: Moving with at least one supporting friendly into dangerous areas, and hang back until you get one.
      b.) Don’t sprint, shoot as you move.
      c.) Wicks notes that when entering opposite diagonals are good, so that you move in one direction and need not traverse your weapon/sight over a large arc. His "tactics guide" for tactical FPS games has some good tips, including get through the fatal funnel quickly, don't stay in the door.
      d.) Use a MAX to lead the way if possible.
      e.) Grenades should be thrown in prior to breach (concussion or flash grenades would be useful).
      f.) Assault force may use smoke to blind the defenders, if assault force has Nigh Vision/Thermals.
      g.) Emale notes that even just stacking up outside the door together, and attacking at once is effective; simplicity of plan is important.

      Problem: Drilling is not a solution because most players in a TG Platoon will not have attended drills.
      I think relying on drill is not a realistic solution because players in their free time cannot be relied upon to drill. The simple reality is not everyone has the time for drill, and not everyone wants to do it. I understand that feeling completely. We have members who have families and careers, and other stuff in the real world. People have little free time to spend playing games. They want to spend it playing, not drilling. And, even if the TG players could be convinced to drill, a lot of guys in our platoons are non TG usually. So often we are working with people who would not know the drill, even if we did regular drills for TG. This means that any plan complex enough to require drill has major drawbacks and limitations.

      I think what Bolivian, and several others elsewhere, have proposed is an optimal plan for breaching. Which is great if we can get some guys to drill and become expert. What I propose is something rougher and easier to tell blueberry guys in the squad on the fly. I am not disagreeing with the plan Bolivian laid out above, just adapting to different circumstances.

      Possible Solution: Simple Procedure
      What about a simpler idea? Focus on something that has enough coordination to bring the squad together, but is easy to remember and convey to blue berries quickly on the battlefield. It won't be as effective as a more comprehensive/advanced plan, but it might be more realistically tailored to TG PS2's needs.

      Simple Plan Option:
      1.) Squad leader gives command for "Stack up on XXXX door."
      2.) Squad moves to the walls to the left and right of the door, ready to breach in. Maxes and heavies should be closest to the doors, medics in rear. Adapt to what units you have, but generally heavy guys front. Squad leader and medics rear.
      3.) When squad appears ready, SL says something like "Stand By to Breach."
      4.) The closest guy on each side of the door (might be only one guy if the force is stacked on only one side, or two if on two sides) prepare to throw grenades.
      5.) SL says “Grenades Out!” and the man closest to the door on each side throws a grenade.
      6.) SL hesitates a second to allow grenades to detonate, and then says “Breach- go go go!”
      7.) The squad enters. If there are some people stacked on each side of the door, they each go straight across, moving at a diagonal. If the stack is on one side, the assault force should alternate which side each player enters. The player closest to the door enters first, then the 2nd closest, and so on.

      Here is a quick picture to help explain... It covers each step.

      Simple Room Breach.jpg

      The key is simplicity, and adaptability. No complex requirements, nothing too specific to explain to blue berries in 1 minute.

      I am glad to see this discussion! I am sure others can improve on my basic idea, as many people here know more about these matters than I do. I think working together we can make a plan for TG. :)
      Last edited by Garthra; 10-06-2013, 06:34 AM.
      The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


      • #4
        Re: Breach and Clear techniques

        I'd change the initial order to "stack on X door and do NOT enter" to be explicit, but otherwise I really like that procedure.


        • #5
          Re: Breach and Clear techniques

          Yeah, we did a workshop one day a couple months ago with myself, Assault9, BoozeCruise, and a few other people (sorry, forget exactly all who was there now) and worked out basically what Garthra put in his post.

          One thing we did figure out was to bounce the grenades off the door jam so as not to expose yourself to enemy fire in the "fatal funnel." Most door jams are pretty wide in PS2 and it's not too difficult to bounce a grenade off of them and into the room with a little practice.
          "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw


          • #6
            Re: Breach and Clear techniques

            Breaches en mass is easy to counter with c4. You need infiltrators with sensor darts to see it coming, then glue c4 over the door (to avoid premature detonation by nades). You can hear gunshots and detonate c4 even when concussed and flashed :) This is why I hesitate to MAX crash through a door en masse, it's great when it works but a single person with c4 and paying attention will stop it cold.


            • #7
              Re: Breach and Clear techniques

              Summary: Grenade bounce off doorway is good, but beyond the scope of my post. I aim to create a floor for all TG, advanced players can rise above.

              Grenade bounce off doorway is good, but more detail than blue berry needs. For more advanced players, or TG players, this guide will appear to be only general and lacking detail.
              Bouncing grenades off is a good idea. It is a detail that is great if people know it. My plan is designed to be basic, and not have details like that in there, not because they are wrong or not helpful, but because I am trying to establish a floor for all TG platoons. Don't want to have more information than a blue berry can retain in a short period of time.

              More advanced players can use more advanced learning/tactics
              But I think you are 100% right it is a good tactic for harder core guys and if more advanced guys use it, great. If the players on hand at the moment have advanced knowledge and discipline, such as knowledge like "grenades should be bounced off door ways", or proper fields of fire upon entry for first assaulter is X, second is Y, that is awesome. *The sky is the limit for advanced players.* Soldiers spend hours and hours getting all the details right, and and I am sure every bit of thought and planning helps. This is only my idea for the floor for all TG. Once we have this down, I figure we add onto it.


              @Nightbird. Your point I think warrants a longer response, so I have laid out one.

              Summary: C4 is a danger, but difficult/impossible to counter & statistically rare, therefore not addressed in general plan. But one strafe across door adds good intel at low cost
              You raise a valid point. C4 is a danger, so are mines. However, there is very little an attacking force can do against them. To me it is sort of like running straight into an anti infantry max when you strafe around or "slice the pie" on a corner. It is a risk you take when you go through any door in planetside2. The cost to try to counter it in time and procedural complexity, even if counter is possible -which sometimes it won't be- is high. The likelihood of a c4 defender of that type is relatively low. Therefore my plan does not address it. However, adding a step for one man to strafe across the door and gather intel, in my mind, strikes a good balance.

              Explanation in Depth
              Countering a c4 defense is sometimes impossible, or at best difficult
              It appears to me that no breaching force would ever see c4 placed inside the door, and above it. Unless they sneak an infiltrator into the room before hand who looks around, and above the door. Which is great if you have one, but often times you will not.

              Such a defense is statistically rare
              The percentage of rooms that have a c4 defender as you describe will be a small percent of the rooms our platoons enter. Maybe we will lose on those rooms, but the strategy holds well for most circumstances.

              Amendment to Plan: Attacking force can do some scouting on its own, without taking too much time, or complexity
              Nightbird, thank you for bringing to my attention the dangers of going in completely blind. I should amend my plan to address this. To address your concern I might amend my plan to include

              "Step 3(b): Gather Intel on room: one infantryman (cloaked infiltrator if possible) strafes across the door, gaining knowledge of the defenses inside, and relays it to the team. If anyone in the squad knows anything about the enemy strength inside the room, they tell their teammates. If possible a sensor dart should be used, but is not required."

              To me this means they aren't going in totally blind, but it is simple enough that it can be told to blue berries, and applied easily by everyone. Also, the fact that 1 player crosses the door means the defenders are not alerted to the size of the attacking force, only to 1 attacker. The attacking SL can then guess, based on what the person who strafed across saw, how strong the opposition is. SL can call it off if enemy is too strong or continue if not.

              This plan is basic and modular- The SL can add to it based on the resources on hand at the moment
              I should also note, if the SL wants to add bells and whistles to this plan, based on what he has with him at the door, he can do that. Examples: sending light infantry in the second story first, or infiltrators before the main force, or smoke grenades, or MAX with the Shield in first to cover entry. Whatever the SL has on hand at that moment, and his or her creativity can imagine, he or she can do that. This is just a general plan for general circumstances, which I think will work most of the time as an SOP.

              This plan chooses speed over slow recon, which makes c4 a danger, and both methods have advantages
              There is certainly a balance of speed and surprise, versus slow recon of the room and deliberate action, when breaching. The more you scout the room, the more the enemy sees it coming, but the safer you are from c4/surprises. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

              My plan opts more for the former (speed, not scouting), because I think:
              --that complexity in plans creates problems,
              --surprise is very powerful,
              --detecting c4 is sometimes impossible, (above door), often difficult,
              --infiltrators are not always available,
              --likelihood of a c4 defender with that presence of mind is real, but relatively low,
              -- and the necessary delay to try find all c4 and mines is too much to be worth it.

              It is certainly a valid point you raise, c4 is a danger.
              Do you have a better solution or counter to it?

              Lets keep the discussion going!
              Last edited by Garthra; 10-06-2013, 03:30 PM. Reason: Clarification and section titles
              The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


              • #8
                Re: Breach and Clear techniques

                Can we use these same breaching tactics to break OUT of buildings, or does that require a different mindset? The situation that comes to mind is a Bio Lab fight where we're locked into the shield room and unable to advance on the SCU to end the fight due to all the doors out of our building being camped.


                • #9
                  Re: Breach and Clear techniques

                  I feel as though they are inherently different beasts.

                  Breaching a room you're attempting to clear a small kill zone (The door) and secure a relatively small room beyond. The enemy may or may not know that you are coming.

                  Breaking out of a spawn room you are essentially running into a large killbox and attempting to make it through in order to secure an area outside the killbox to take pressure off the spawn room. The enemy will always know when you are coming and will always have a strong killbox set up outside. (otherwise you wouldn't need a breakout at all)

                  What I've often wondered is what is the best way to employ maxes in the breach itself?

                  1) MAX Charging into the room - fastest infantry movement that can be done, minimizes time in the fatal funnel, draws enemy attention away from the door and secures positions deep in the room, sets off prox mines but is too fast to be damaged by them. Cuts the MAX off from immediate support, MAX cannot fire until in position.

                  2) MAX walks through the door - Moderate movement speed, MAX returns fire and suppresses enemy. MAX is very vulnerable to C4, mines and rockets.

                  3) MAX walks through the door with Aegis Shield - Slowest movement, MAX is very exposed, MAX cannot return fire immediately. MAX is moderately vulnerable to C4 and mines. Soaks up incoming damage in the fatal funnel.
                  Teamwork and Tactics are OP

                  Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".


                  • #10
                    Re: Breach and Clear techniques

                    I suspect a well certed Aegis shield wall going through the door would be most effective. You'll be able to eat at least a rocket or two and you'll provide excellent cover for the people coming behind. It also gives you time to close to close range where you'll be most effective. Charge could work well, but I also suspect that your situational awareness would be pretty bad by the time you came to a stop and you might find yourself in a really bad position with your engineer much too far behind you.

                    But I haven't played enough of the MAX class to say for certain.


                    • #11
                      Re: Breach and Clear techniques

                      Personally I am a fan of shock and awe. Two concussion/flash grenades with two MAXs charging into the two halves of the room. The goal of the charge is to get to the far side of the room being breached running AT the highest concentrations of enemies, opening fire from behind enemy lines and at point blank. If the flash/concuss worked, each MAX can take down up to 10 squashes (ignore MAX defenders!!! priority being medics). Use your enemies as meat shields and at the same time none of your pellets will miss, no TR nor VS MAX dares do this. 2 seconds after the MAXes charge, the rest of team follows with medics last. The enemy will be thrown into disarray because 1) they are not looking at the door 2) if they have a small clip they are low on ammo 3) they are standing next to a MAX with shotguns for arms. The entering team should have heavies ready to rocket MAXs. This allows a 12 man squad to take down 24 defenders easily. Kinetic armor is a plus, followed by flak armor for the maxes.

                      Some buildings have more than 1 room defended, in such a case do not press beyond the first room until MAXs are fully repaired. If you are breaching a room with too many MAXs (>2), obviously this will not work as you won't have the DPS output to kill all the enemies. You'll just need more even numbers but the tactic is simple: the initial flash/stun, charge, and shotguns.




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