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  • Biolabs and what not to do

    While I've only been playing for a limited time, I've noticed something that is very wrong.

    Just about every time I've attacked a biolab, both WITH TG and in a random pub squad, I've noticed this huge push to get up a lift onto a landing pad that is being farmed by the enemy. You can look up and see a hundred skull'n'crossbones on top of said landing pad. I think we all know this isn't working, and eventually it'll break off and we'll try something else.

    I think we, among others, are missing a very vital tactic in this approach. If I were squad leader and I witnessed this happening, I would immediately issue an order for my squad to run across the ground to the opposite side of the biolab and go up that lift to the opposite landing pad, sprint around the edge of the lab itself, and attack the farmers from behind. If this was organized within the platoon correctly, you could have a 12 man squad flanking behind the farmers, and a 12 man squad ready for the command to go up the lift and catch the farmers in a crossfire that will easily end in the two squads taking the forward landing pad.

    It's hard to explain this in text, but I think most of you guys have seen this happen, and probably thought the same thing. I've even tried it, but one man vs 40 campers generally ends badly. But, with that being said, I'd say 9 out of 10 times that I do try it, the flank works easily with no opposition, I just can't kill 40 guys alone.

    Very open to discussion of this here.

    Mom
    Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
    Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

    You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
    Forever Perplexed

  • #2
    Re: Biolabs and what not to do

    I fully agree that, when assaulting a highly defensible location with few entries, it is imperative that you make as much use of every option you can. Otherwise it's just making a hard situation nearly impossible. But I'm just echoing what I was said in an AAR here where we encountered that problem.

    This tactic goes further by specifically letting the enemy get complacent as they camp one entrance then wiping them out from behind; I like it. Though, do you mean to have people running around the inside or along the outside perimeter of the Bio Lab? I think the enemy prefer to stay inside the dome in order to use the bottleneck to best effect, while if they do move on to the pad they tend to destroy any parked Sunderers at the bottom of the lifts. Running inside the dome should work as long as the enemy aren't watching that side.

    Alternatively, if the enemy are totally focused on the air pad, you could switch some forces to the teleporter immediately behind them and try the same tactic.


    Something else I pondered on recently is the fact entry options are more constrained with the lattice system, since you usually only have 1 or 2 connections, where before you'd encircle it with all the sub bases. As a way around this, you could sneak an infiltrator to an enemy sub base, hack the vehicle terminal, pull an AMS Sunderer with stealth and hide it there (it'll have to be outside the no-deploy area though). You could then have a couple squads or whole platoon respawn (placing beacons as back up) and use the jump pad to suddenly attack from a side that the enemy thought was safe.
    Last edited by MrJengles; 10-08-2013, 02:29 PM.



    |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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    • #3
      Re: Biolabs and what not to do

      I like the thought. Hitting the campers from behind is probably not viable due to the amount of Bio Lab between you and them, but you can definitely open another front and catch them with their pants around their ankles! I've noticed that squads camping those chokepoints tend to over-commit troops relative to the amount of resistance they're seeing, so if one squad plus the smurf Zerg keeps them busy and eagerly lining up at the buffet line on one pad, other squads can use the other pad, jump pads, or (better yet) teleporters to move in behind them.



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      • #4
        Re: Biolabs and what not to do

        Mass spawns on beacons and SL are massively underused, and I don't know why. If its too much trouble to get a squad to redeploy and wait on a spawn order then what chance do you have of ever getting an even slightly complex tactic of any nature to work?

        I'm talking in general and not just on Bio Labs of course, but on any base that is contested, 12 guys dropping in at once to anywhere other than where the main force is pushing from will at the very least take some pressure off the main assault. Place a beacon, have your squad redeploy, place a squad marker, tell squad to aim for the marker, order the spawn. This simple yet effective tactic very rarely seems to be used, and with a bunch of guys supposedly working together it should be easy to execute.

        Why run in the open when you can drop steel rain on or behind your enemies?.
        It matters not what letters or numbers come before my name, I'll always be 1stMIP.

        sigpic

        "It is all about being a teamplayer. Give a kitchen sink to a teamplayer and he'll find a way to support his squad with it."
        - John_CANavar (Marshall & Founder of the 1st Mechanized Infantry Platoon)

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        • #5
          Re: Biolabs and what not to do

          In three instances of what seem to be coordinated attacks on biolabs that I have been involved in, the sundy was parked under X pad with the enemy choking it off at the top. Roughly... 40 people lift to their death before people begin to realize this isn't going to work. What I'm saying is this:

          X pad is chokepoint
          Y pad is opposite X pad on opposite side of base
          Sundy spawning 60 guys is under X pad
          Attack has just begun and SL notices blueberries and other platoons going up X lift

          SL issues order to run across the ground from X Sundy to Y pad lift. Form up, wait for orders before taking lift.
          Full squad forms up, waits.
          SL issues order to lift to Y pad, run around the outside of the biolab to flank X pad (maybe even split 6 by 6 on each side of the biolab while remaining outside)
          X pad is effectively reinforced by infantry that doesn't just die instantly.
          X Sundy begins to actually get feet on X pad due to fire taken away from them
          X chokepoint is pushed back due to crossfire
          Teleporter, X lift blueberries, and Y Flank squad form a U shaped ambush on X pad campers.

          It may not get us the base, but it'll get us that lift, and if it works as well as I see it in my mind, it should effectively demoralize the enemy team, confuse them, and cause general chaos.

          Say it's a Friday night and we have all 4 squads full (I realize it's probably rare)...

          PL orders squads A and B to be X lift squads
          PL orders squads C and D to be Y ambush squads
          C and D split 12 by 12 on each side of biolab from Y pad
          A and B squads continue to marginally "feed" the campers, enforcing the idea they are succeeding in their effort to hold the pad
          Campers begin to realize they are overwhelming lift squads due to only trickling infantry, rather than full squads coming up lift
          Campers push forward to take Sundy down
          A and B squads report fire coming down from pad, enemies on edges
          C and D ambush squads attack, meeting a fully unsuspecting camp team
          A and B take lift on go from PL that came from C and D
          Coordinated ambush ensues - Teleporter still forms U shaped ambush (edit: teleporter forms square ambush)

          I've even thought about motion trackers from infils, and I'm pretty sure they don't show elevation, so the campers, who likely won't even notice the motion trackers, can't tell if those red dots are on the ground or coming around the top... The only thing that could mess the whole thing up is if motion trackers see the ambush squads grouping at Y lift. Rendezvous and execute on Y lift needs to be fluid and quick.

          There's a lot of different ways this could go down. You could even have a gal squad do a suicide drop right over the campers and cut their ranks right before another squad or two are ordered to come up lift. Basically, you're looking for a single moment when the campers say, "We've got this, as usual.. holy crap, where did these guys come from... HOLY CRAP THEY'RE ALL HERE MAN"

          The point is that we've got an opportunity for some coordinated tactics to overwhelm a strong, generally difficulty force, and we're not taking the opportunity.

          As far as coordination goes... imho, a lack of coordination is a lack of leadership. Coming from TGNS2, I fully believe that the drive and ability of the infantry is a direct reflection of the will of the commander. If you ride your platoon/squad like a lame horse, it's going to act that way, and the success rate is going to be low. But if you ride your platoon/squad like a stallion that may buck you at any moment, you're going to see a higher success rate and all the things that go with it.

          I'm not saying anyone has done less than well with that, but...

          Mass spawns on beacons and SL are massively underused, and I don't know why. If its too much trouble to get a squad to redeploy and wait on a spawn order then what chance do you have of ever getting an even slightly complex tactic of any nature to work?
          This ^ is simply a product of failure on the shoulders of the leaders of the infantry on the ground.

          Mom
          Last edited by YerMom; 10-08-2013, 07:14 PM.
          Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
          Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

          You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
          Forever Perplexed

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Biolabs and what not to do

            Originally posted by YerMom View Post
            It's hard to explain this in text"
            Mom
            Sounds simple to me. I'm thinking there is one major flaw however and I think it would play out like this fairly commonly:

            - enemy enjoys slaughter fest on the pad X
            - TG squads executes the "ghost-pad-paddle" (first name that came to mind) maneauver soundly and kill all/most of the enemy on the pad
            - All celebrate short victory
            - enemy that all died within 10 - 20 seconds of each other all re spawn in about the same amount of time
            - enemy returns in a large wave to reclaim what they lost in one counter attack wave.
            - enemy returns to their position while we have further distanced re spawns and we are back to square one

            This is my idea of what would happen most of the time. Not all but most. I have no doubt that this would turn the tide once in a while and is definitely worth the attempt.

            I have another idea going off this premise that may avoid the big enemy response wave:

            - enemy enjoys slaughter fest on the pad X
            - TG squads execute a "ghost-pad-scoop" maneuver rushing to an important objective and setting up an alamo
            - enemy will realize in different chunks whats going on and begin to respond
            - TG sustains multiple assaults they are prepared for killing the enemy in random intervals
            - enemy death intervals provide less opportunity to respond in a large overwhelming wave.

            Note that I don't think this is full proof by any means either but i have tactical ideas that I think could make this effective.

            Both ideas are better options than bashing brains vs overwhelming firepower at pad X however.

            Good ideas.

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            • #7
              Re: Biolabs and what not to do

              I think the respawn timer will be balanced out by the Sundy sitting under Pad X, not to mention teleporter blueberries or squads that are distracting targets moving from respawn to X pad. That's the point of trying to take the pad. I repeatedly see the Sundy sitting there, and people bashing brains against Pad X. The TG assault, being we're more coordinated than blueberries, and most other platoons (or at least that's the idea), is to claim the pad FOR the rest of the soldiers.

              The idea is that, regardless of what pad we set the Sundy under, the enemy team is going to see that, and form this farm every time. If we break the farm, then between the teleporter and the Sundy, we (the NC, not just TG) should take the entire wing of the biolab, and be able to press the other fronts from that wing.

              With that being said, the original idea is to distract the farmers... so strategically taking a different pad than Pad X to take X objective and hold it as an alamo would still have a good effect, imho... it just won't move the front from the ground to the pad, which is what my intention was.

              Mom
              Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
              Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

              You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
              Forever Perplexed

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                If I may, to win a base..........any base, requires 1 of 2 things to happen. 1) Have a respawn option and deny the enemy of theirs and they die out due to attrition or 2) Hold the points with such force that it denies the enemy the ability to hold the base.

                If the enemy has camped a lift pad, then do as Finestyle has suggested on the opposite pad and move to the SCU gen room.........it will pull a good many enemy off the camped pad and allow the zerk to continue pushing from that direction. Once the SCU gen has blown, take down the SCU in force with hopefully at that time both forces converging. Once you take down the SCU then it's just a matter of mopping up.

                If there is any coordination between the forces, then the zerk will be coming up the pad opposite of the gen room, leaving the way clear for taking the gen out with little to no resistance.

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                • #9
                  Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                  A small point: if infil darts track us, the enemy knows we're in the base. They may not have height information, but the bottom of the Bio Lab is a rarely traversed zone. Also, the infil darts themselves will be on the bio lab level, and don't have the radius to pick up anything on the ground. Any dot you see in a Bio Lab from a tracking dart is pretty much guaranteed to be in the Bio Lab proper.

                  That said, enemy infiltrator darts are an unlikely risk from that direction if the enemy is concentrated on the lifts.



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                  • #10
                    Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                    While we're talking darts and 'labs, I noticed that you can hang out pretty unmolested in the vehicle bay of a friendly biolab that's under attack and pop through the shields occasionally to place darts on the underside of the superstructure beneath cap points, the gens or the pads. Placing them on the underside, I'm assuming, will produce a somewhat smaller effective radius on the interior. Still, could be a handy place for the infil to operate from if your spawn room is taking a lot of fire and it's getting hard to place darts where you need them. There's also a handy weps terminal in the bay for resupply, if you don't have an engy handy.




                    * *

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                    • #11
                      Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                      I agree on the defense side that that vehicle bay is heavily under used, not just for infils but for all classes.

                      Mom
                      Games lubricate the body and the mind. - Benjamin Franklin
                      Ever since the beginning, to keep the world spinning, it takes all kinds of kinds. -Miranda Lambert

                      You're a 34, Mom. Thirty. Four.
                      Forever Perplexed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                        Hell, it's got FOUR vehicle terminals underneath. If a Sunderer under a landing pad is causing trouble, send a squad down there and have them all pull armour simultaneously. Their armour will come out 2-4 times faster than normal and they can rush the problematic Sundy and nip the problem in the bud.



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                        • #13
                          Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                          I thought this discussion was about US getting farmed.............

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                          • #14
                            Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                            Well, now we know what the guys farming us should do if they want to kick our asses. :)



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                            • #15
                              Re: Biolabs and what not to do

                              Originally posted by P.Drona View Post
                              While we're talking darts and 'labs, I noticed that you can hang out pretty unmolested in the vehicle bay of a friendly biolab that's under attack and pop through the shields occasionally to place darts on the underside of the superstructure beneath cap points, the gens or the pads. Placing them on the underside, I'm assuming, will produce a somewhat smaller effective radius on the interior. Still, could be a handy place for the infil to operate from if your spawn room is taking a lot of fire and it's getting hard to place darts where you need them. There's also a handy weps terminal in the bay for resupply, if you don't have an engy handy.
                              Occasionally I pull a Flash with 100m radar and just sit in the vehicle bay. When playing with blueberries, it's useful if I know the enemy are getting through on a side with little or no defense, as people usually turn around when they see red dots to hunt.

                              Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
                              Hell, it's got FOUR vehicle terminals underneath. If a Sunderer under a landing pad is causing trouble, send a squad down there and have them all pull armour simultaneously. Their armour will come out 2-4 times faster than normal and they can rush the problematic Sundy and nip the problem in the bud.
                              Yeah, I'm surprised that doesn't happen too often, maybe people prefer the farm.


                              Another way to defend against enemies on the landing pad is to place a beacon on the roof, perimeter or one of the legs* and drop your squad either behind the enemies on the pad or on the roof. They're all bunched up behind cover, particularly to either side of the bio lab entrance, so C4 is awesome. I've killed whole groups of infantry with each brick like that.

                              *One of my beacons stayed there for an entire defense once, enemies are unlikely to be in range of the beam.



                              |TG-Irr| MrJengles - You know you want to say it out loud.

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