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Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

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  • Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

    This has been developped with 031's and is the former and alternate version of the Close Infantry Support Artillery.

    "Artillery" Harasser Loadout
    • Armament :
      • M60-G Bulldog-H
        • 2x Optics
        • Magazine Size
        • Ammo Capacity
    • Equipment :
      • NFI-2000 Turbo
      • Vehicle Stealth
      • Surger Power Chassis
    • Manning :
      • Stalker Infiltrator (Pilot/pointer)
      • Engineer (Gunner)
      • AA-MAX (Optional)

    How To
    General idea is to be able to fire from complete cover on enemy position. That is hard to accomplish, alone, and it is even harder to be really efficient. The problem is solved once you get someone to mark targets as it goes along and to guide your shots round after round closer to the mark.
    So the role of Squad Leader is given to the Pointer. That way, he can give a good, precise and fixed mark, with the squad Waypoint.
    Once he has placed the Harasser on its firing position, the Pilot/Pointer goes as close to the target as he has to. The Stalker Cloaking device is then a must. Then, once the mark is acknowledged by the Gunner, the Pointer orders fire. Once he sees the rounds, he tells whether they are too long or too short. Then, the Gunner applies corrections accordingly and fires again, once Pointer orders it.
    Given proper training, one should be able to have direct hit on target after a couple volleys.
    Option is to outfit this team with a AA-MAX to improve its survivability. It has been observed that aircrafts are a real problem for the Artillery Harasser, since it stands still.

    Preferred target
    • Dat untouchable deployed Sundy.
    • Masses of infantry.
    • Phalanx turrets.
    • Open-air Capture points.

    N.B.: This really is for Close Infantry Support purpose. It will greatly improve a squad's push in a well defended bottleneck, but the performance of this Logistics is not high enough to ride alone. It is a precision strike asset, developped to deliver decisive blows.
    Last edited by bregard031; 06-17-2017, 08:10 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

    How much DPS can a bulldog put down? How effective is it in dropping enemy infantry, especially in hardened positions? What kind of range can be achieved? Does this scale well with multiple harassers? How bad are the ammo constraints, and might they justify bringing a Sunderer along?

    I definitely like the overall idea. Responsive indirect fire support can make a huge difference, so if we can execute it well, that'd be fantastic!

    A potential variation on the idea might be a three man squad with a bulldog equipped Sunderer. The Sunderer is capable of setting up as an AMS to help push a front, while the two guns can be maintained to provide mortar support for the advance and help prevent the spawn from being overrun.


    • #3
      Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

      Sunderer has been explored. It has 33% more damage on a direct hit, which is awesome.

      For both the Sunderer's and the Harasser's M60-G Bulldog, the range is ~480m (excluded.)

      I have thought about 2 Ammo-Sunderers following eachother for illimited campaign. Once field tested, I came up to the conclusion that I prefer to have a single Harasser that is able to get exactly where it has to be. Perfect firing position are not numerous and Sunderers often simply cannot get to them. Plus, more assets means more importance. You will want to protect that with Skyguards, Repair Sunderers, Vanguards and stuff. La pente fatale. I do not appreciate to lose the focus on the Infantry Squad.

      With the Artillery Harasser, I have dealt with several frontlines succesfully suppressing solid positions around gates of main bases. Even if the point is more to dislodge enemy than to kill, the effectiveness is striking : kills rain. Plus it is a hell-of-a-lot-of-fun!

      If I was to have mechanised infantry squad supported by this Logistic, I would pick it up in a Ammo-Sunderer outfitted with Walkers/Rangers.

      For people that are interested in having training on this topic in VR, simply ask me, Melchisedech031 or Rigor031.


      • #4
        Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

        Just under 500m for maximum range! That's fantastic, and I think that's even beyond the maximum engagement range for infantry. IFAIK infantry don't render and are untargetable past 300m. You could still hit vehicles past that range, though.

        Definitely see where you're going with regards to keeping it small. A 2 man element is flexible and cheap.

        Would it be possible to integrate it with a regular infantry squad, for organizational purposes, or is the overlap in squad marker placement and comms problematic?


        • #5
          Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

          You pointed it out just right :
          • The ~180m buffer over Infantry render (implies Hit possibility) is for Vehicule (immobile Sunderer, most of the time) and Phalanx Turret duties.
          • The idea is to have a cheap "joker card in the sleeve."
          • both the Squad Waypoint and Squad VOIP Communications are constantly in use and that becomes a real problem if you don't make it a separate squad.

          You remember that damn MAX in its trench/on its ridge, making fun of your Main Battle Tank while it takes care of (read "rips through") your infantry? He is dead, now.

          I would add foresights of possible "counters" from our enemies :
          • Already seen on the field, only once : Cluster of TR Pounder MAX, with counter artillery method, since it also has a muzzle velocity under 100m/s
          • Most probable : aircraft.
          • Use of the same technique from our enemies.


          • #6
            Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

            I agree that aircraft are the most likely threat. Having the burster MAX in the back pocket is probably a wise addition, and is nice support for the squad besides.

            I think you could also load the squad with an AA element without compromising communications too badly, just by having a few skyguards attached to it. If you're going to have AA in the platoon anyways, a squad like this might be a good place to stash them without having to create another small, specialized squad within the platoon (which reduces the force strength of the platoon).


            • #7
              Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

              Tried this today at it was fantastic! I believe every TG lead should be aware of this to use.

              but this tactic really in my mind only should be used if either there is a large group of problem infantry sitting in an open position and air such as libs are not an option or if there is a problem sunderer and pulling two ap lightnings are not an option.

              The game changer here that causes it to be so useful is that you can be mobilized and pounding a target from 350 meters away in a short period of time. With a good crew this can almost be as effective as air or quick ap lightnings but with out the problem of AA and or what ever might be stopping your armour.

              I look forward to the refinment of this strat and getting a few good artillery crews so as an SL I can use this in the future.
              SPEAK UP! and lets combat the fog of war together.


              • #8
                Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                Although I have not tried this, it sounds great! A discipled. 3 man force really helping out. Bergard, send me a tell next time you are on. This is a fantastic concept.
                The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


                • #9
                  Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                  Thank you guys!

                  We 031's have had a lot of field tests about this (we have been putting down a lot of key damage on both problematic hidden sunderers and clusters of infantry) and it turns out I would not be shy to propose our 3-men squad to a leader in need of a solid and cheap solution.


                  • #10
                    Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                    If I'm running a squad or platoon, I would be more than happy to try this out, so don't hesitate to ask!

                    In fact, if I'm NOT leading, I'd be up for trying my hand at either the spotting or firing tasks myself, sounds like an interesting way to play.


                    • #11
                      Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                      Only with TG can one have a training session about a that complex and team-play-related technique. Thanks to Cairbr, MacKahan, norelco, Biytore - and others my little memory cannot remember - for that moment, it is always a pleasure to share!
                      You have been granted a Basic Artillery Qualification! (I do not know if that will exist one day, but I put you on my "men for the job" list. :P )


                      • #12
                        Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                        I tried this out with Mackahan and Randyshughart. We had some trouble finding good targets late at night, but eventually we did.
                        We did a three man squad. 1 infil to spot target. 1 driver for the harasser. 1 gunner for the harasser. Between deployments infil rode in the back seat.

                        Here are some things we learned the hard way.

                        How to Use Effectively: Limitations and Lessons
                        1.) Terrain matters and obstructions can block rounds. The arc of these rounds, even at max range and max height, is not very high. They fly maybe 50 meters off the ground. Obviously the round reaches its max height of travel at the middle point between the harasser and the target. This limits their effectiveness as compared to true artillery, which fires at significantly higher arcs and so approaches its target from above. These rounds of the bulldog generally approach their target from almost horizontal.

                        GUNNER NEEDS TO KNOW:
                        2.) Aiming V to V. Aiming is done by lining up the center of the bottom of aiming V for the bulldog (its basically a V with some horizontal lines through it, some of which are big, and some of which are smaller). Your starting aim is by placing the bottom of the V on the aiming sight, on the point where the GREEN SQUAD MARKER splits into a V. (Its actually a 3 way split, part continues straight up, and two green side beams break off.) So bottom of the aiming V, to bottom of the squad marker V. This is going to give you a roughly 450 meter shot. A roughly 400 meter shot is achieved by aiming the gun down slowly until the V for the squad mark is resting on the first "BIG" horizontal line in the harasser gun aiming reticule. Which leads us to lesson 3....

                        3.) One large mark on gunner sight is roughly 50 meters range. The Gunner should know one "large" mark on his sight, while he is NOT ZOOMED AT ALL is about a range change of 50 meters. The smaller marks in between each of those are each about 25 meters. NOTE: These tests were conducted on flat terrain, and your experience may differ. This is a rough reference so when the spotter says "You are overshooting. Drop it down 50 meters" you know what to do.

                        SPOTTER NEEDS TO KNOW
                        4.) BRACKETING: When calling in corrections, do so in increments TWICE what you think is needed. If the round appears to be 50 meters short, call for a correction of "ADD 100 meters!" If you are correct in your estimations, the round will miss, now being 50 meters too far. Now you can definitively tell the gunner "Reduce range or DROP 50 meters, and FIRE FOR EFFECT" and achieve a perfect hit. If you underestimated the correction needed, you might score a hit on the second round, and not need a third. This is a very basic description of a method of artillery correction used in real militaries.

                        5.) Where/How to Hide: You will need to have a good view of the enemy, and be undisturbed for a long time. If terrain is convenient you can play sniper and sit at long range. But often there is no good over watch on a sniper. So I recommend you bring your "stalker" cloak so you can sit still about 100 meters from target even if you have to do it in the middle of a field. Also, I suggest getting a 4x zoom, or whatever the most powerful zoom you can get on your pistol is, to allow you to spot effectively from this range. If you have a crossbow, I know you can get a 4x zoom on it.

                        6.) Squad marker as bullseye. Spotter should be SL, so he can place the green squad objtective marker on the target. This allows the harasser to be dead on in terms of left right aiming. So all the spotter has to do is the range.

                        DRIVER NEEDS TO KNOW:
                        7.) 350-450 Meter range optimal: Driver needs to position the harasser in the 350-450 meter range. Closer and the harasser cannot shot high enough to be "indirect" and risks direct fire. Longer range is better whenever possible. However, DO NOT try to engage from beyond 450, soon after that the rounds simple disappear in air when they reach the render threshold. PS, the squares on the map are 500 meters horizontal and vertical. This will enable you to plan your location in order to reach the objective.

                        8.) The Getaway Driver: You are responsible for survivability. Stay alert while the gunner and spotter talk. Be ready to floor it and know which way to run.

                        9.) When this strategy is a BAD IDEA:
                        When the target has vertical cover, a high mountain, or high walls very close to it. The rounds will skim the ground as they come in, so a 15 foot wall facing the direction of the harasser is a big problem. So the proverbial sunderer tucked right behind a rock is no good, unless you can get 400 meters to the SIDE of that rock. But, a 15 foot wall BEHIND the target is glory, as even your over shots will hit.

                        When the target is mobile armor: You bulldog will not be able to achieve a hit before they move.

                        10.) When this strategy is a GOOD IDEA:
                        -A deployed sundy.
                        -A bunch of enemy infantry

                        Here is a video of us seriously damaging a sunderer, we would have killed it, but some unrelated infantry attacked the harasser and it had to drive off. But we almost took out a sunderer, which was guarded, in a hot battle, and we had virtually NO risk to us. It was great. They didn't know what was hitting them.


                        If you are interested in this strat, talk to me. I want to perfect this, have dumped 1500 certs into my harasser for it, and need some help to do it. It obviously has weaknesses, but it has some major advantages tactically, and fun factor wise if you have the patience for it. :)
                        Last edited by Garthra; 04-13-2014, 05:18 AM.
                        The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


                        • #13
                          Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                          Great post Garthra. Thanks to you, Mackahan and Randyshughart for taking the time to test and report back. Nice work.

                          * *


                          • #14
                            Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                            Assault and I tried it on the tail end of the training FNF. We didn't have nearly as much success, mainly because it was late at night on a mostly empty Esamir... infantry fights just weren't available, or were behind walls. We did it as a two man squad, which also seemed to work reasonably well. There's no reason a gunner couldn't switch seats and floor it, though you're losing precious seconds in the transition (and the situational awareness).

                            One thing I'd add, Garthra, is that your 350-450m range will only work against deployed Sunderers. At that range, regular infantry won't render for you and you can't hit them, you'll need to be within 300m for that. In that situation, you either want to put cover some distance in front of you to minimize the risk of hitting the hill or take a "hull down" position where available.

                            Another thing I noticed is that this just doesn't work against infantry moving at all unless the gunner has direct line of sight, which makes it a bit of a moot point.


                            • #15
                              Re: Close Infantry Support Artillery (2-to-3-men Squad)

                              Thanks for spreading the word, buddy!

                              Originally posted by starstriker1
                              Another thing I noticed is that this just doesn't work against infantry moving at all unless the gunner has direct line of sight, which makes it a bit of a moot point.
                              We might have a purpose for a cluster of M60-G Bulldogs, here! I will work on a way to coordinate several gunners; like, a "squadful" of dual M60 Sunderers! Imagine if it worked.

                              "Target identified, requesting a barrage!"




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