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Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

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  • Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

    Tactical Topic: Offensive Room Clearing and Hip Fire

    I have recently come to a thought probably a lot of you figured out earlier a close quarters weapon sight often does more harm than good when on offense, because generally looking down the sight slows your movement, and thus makes you an easier target. The increase in accuracy provided by the sight is only really a help when you have only one target to shoot. If you have 2 or more enemies shooting at you, movement will keep you alive more than knocking that first one enemy out a few seconds earlier by sighting for a headshot. (Note opposite is true, I think, for defense, where looking down sights is very useful.) Based on these thoughts I am looking at more hipfire focused playstyles for my offensive play. Just to be clear, I am looking at equipment and ideas useful for all or most classes of infantry, not for anything only useful to one class.

    Three specific questions:

    1.) Do you believe the laser sight / adv laser sight is a worthwhile investment? It seems to me that hip fire (and thus laser sight attachments) saves you time and allows you to continue moving at full speed, thus making it essential for offensive close quarters fights. What are your thoughts?

    2.) It is my understanding that softpoint ammo pushes your maximum damage range out slighting (say from 10 to 15 yards) but decreases yours long range damage, thus making it ideal for short range battle configurations. Is this correct and have you found it helpful?

    3.) Are there any other weapon mods people would recommend highly for close quarters offense?
    The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

  • #2
    Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

    To answer your questions:

    1. With my limited testing I believe the laser sights are a significant increase in hip fire accuracy.
    2. I believe you are correct but I do not know for sure either.
    3. Not experienced enough in this area, however my theory is that high rate of fire dominates this shotguns aside. Sub-machine guns have this as well as increased movement while aiming down sights should you decide to do so.

    My thoughts otherwise: I believe that in a tight infantry squad like TG strives for, this is really only effective during squad movements in close quarters. Otherwise we are usually taking stationary defensive positions where squad accuracy and volume of fire is called upon more than individual mobile survive-ability. I see use in it but in a TG squad its not where I place my weight of effort. I generally use LMG with 200 round clips to offer increased volume of fire for long periods of time without reloading. Just my preference though.


    • #3
      Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

      Personally, I put at least a 2X reflex sight on any weapon I own, even the ultra-CQB GD-7F. Sights are highly subjective though, and depend a lot on how well you can shoot with the default ironsights (the effectiveness of which varies by weapon). Unless you're adding the bulky 3.4X+ scopes I don't think anything will reduce your effectiveness. I'm sure a lot of people will recommend the thermal optics as well, though I don't use it I can see how it might help to cut through the smoke and chaos of an indoor fight.

      1) I don't use laser sights, but that's more on principal than anything else. I nearly always scope in, except at extreme-pointblank ranges where the added accuracy wouldn't matter anyway. I prefer the advantage that a foregrip gives me in medium-range fights.

      2) SPA is a no-brainer for CQB. It's quite a noticeable improvement in close to medium range damage and DOES NOT reduce damage at long range. The ONLY downside to SPA (unless its been recently patched) is a reduction in bullet velocity, which varies by weapon but is not as severe as the velocity reduction from a suppressor. Especially for weapons with naturally high bullet velocities, I don't find this to be a noticeable downside. Basically, if a weapon can equip SPA, I'd equip SPA.

      3) For close-quarters offence you might consider a suppressor or flash suppressor as well. I personally don't use the suppressor because of its effect on damage (especially at medium-long range, but even at very close ranges) and its huge reduction in bullet velocity. I DO use the flash suppressor on my CQB kits and in fact any kit that I don't use a compensator on. Reason being, the negatives are pretty small (slightly increased COF bloom) but it gains significant intangibles in the form of reducing the muzzle flash which can reduce your vision (especially at night) and more importantly reducing the flash visible to your enemies. The end result is that it is easier for you to get on target and harder for the enemy to get on target. Obviously this effect is much more pronounced at night, but I appreciate it at all times of day.
      Teamwork and Tactics are OP

      Strait /strāt/ (Noun) A narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water: "the Northumberland Strait".


      • #4
        Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

        I'd say a weapon with an advanced laser sight is a huge leg up in a close quarters fight. I'm a big fan of the GR-22 for this reason. Obviously, shotguns are also well suited to this kind of role, but I've got almost no experience with them.


        • #5
          Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

          I've only been playing for a few weeks but from my experience so far I switch between foregrip and laser sight depending on the situation. The laser sight is very helpful for med range cqb (say 10-20m) I find myself easily pulling headshots out of my butt that I otherwise don't get with foregrip at that range.


          • #6
            Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

            1.) Depends on the weapon, sometimes the laser sight doesn't provide an important enough advantage for it to be reasonably equipped over and foregrip. (particularly with LMG's)
            2.) Soft point ammo ONLY increases maximum damage range by 5 meters and reduces muzzle velocity.
            High velocity ammo increases maximum damage range by 80% (8 meters) for carbines and 40% (4 meters) for all other guns while also increasing minimum damage range by 10 meters. Downside is higher vertical recoil.
            3.)if you're going for hip fire it's a good idea to take of the compensator on your gun if you have one. It creates a very dramatic decrease in hip fire accuracy.


            • #7
              Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

              I would like to mess about with breaching ideas and practice them a bit. When I say mess about I do not mean this will be joke time. It will be focused. This Is figuring out what works, not official practice or training because we don't know yet what we should practice.

              Who is interested in helping with this?

              I do not promise action or excitement. Far from it, I promise tedious, detailed, repetition. I promise only sweaty mouse hands, and virtual tears. If anyone remembers arty training from ACE ArmA you will understand. I promise you we will do a drill 100 times without killing an enemy or earning an XP point. But at the end, we will have learned something together.

              The Plan
              I will need at least 4 people to test this. Ideally, 8 people so we can have a few TG OPFOR for each attempt. This will have to be a team effort. My rough plan is we take a standard building, and tell the OPFOR which door we will be coming in, so they are watching that door, simulating a hostile room. So we have to breach into enemy fire. After trying one tactic 5 or 10 times, we ask the opfor, did it work? What worked, what didn't? Then we try a different variation, again 5 or 10 times, then ask again. Then we ask, ok, was breach type 1 more effective than breach type 2? OPFOR gives us an answer. Then we try variation three, again 5 or 10 times... and so on, and so on, until we run out of time. Yes, you will spend infantry resources on grenades. The price of realistic training is high. :)

              We may practice first a bit in the VR, but we should move to an OPFOR testing for the majority. I am talking at least one hour for this.

              Some questions I would like to see answered through this session:

              1.) Is movement speed on offense (entering rooms) important enough to warrant laser sights/hip fire?

              2.) Is it worth it to throw a medical grenade for AOE healing in along with the concussion grenade, to keep the point man up?

              3.) What is the mot effective set of commands to get everyone IN THAT DOOR at the same time, right after the grenade? Right now I have written a proposed SOP, but I need to test it. My theory could be wrong.

              4.) Is it better for the first man to sprint out of the fatal funnel, then put gun down and shoot, or come in hip firing the whole way?

              I don't know when is a good time to study this, will be busy all week and next sunday, but I would like to.

              I am ready to listen to thoughts on
              A.) How to best test these ideas.
              B.) If anyone KNOWS the answer to these questions already, tell me.
              C.) Times/date that would be good for you to do this session. I am assuming weekend, since most people can be on then.
              D.) Best weapons and attachments for breaching.
              E.) Do you have OPFOR we could use?
              F.) Other thoughts?

              Why am I excited about this?
              Thrilled even? Because it sounds tactical and like something few outfits would spend time to test. We are TG, we don't have mass numbers, we don't have gimmics ... we have brains and discipline. This is a chance to use them. Also, infantry has to clear rooms every day, so why not figure out how to do it better? While we are learning the best method we are practicing as we learn and building the discipline we need to execute the ideal plan, once we find it.

              [MENTION=26828]Mindkill[/MENTION] -- what do you think about this? Good/bad/ugly? [MENTION=16189]starstriker1[/MENTION] -- can you help with this?
              The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


              • #8
                Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

                I could play OPFOR. Have a Mini Me profile for just this purpose.
                |TG-189th| Unkl
                TG PrimerArmA Game Officer189th Infantry Brigade Former Irregular
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                "this is on par with groups you have to join to get the quality of gameplay and i really enjoyed it" - random dude
                "Remember when the threat has spotted you, smoke first then bring the explosive rounds to bear. When the threat has not spotted you its bang first and smoke after to extract." - Wicks


                • #9
                  Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

                  I'm liking the sound of this. Being able to breach an enemy controlled building reliably would give us a huge advantage over our adversaries.

                  Did you intend on posting your idea in this thread about hip fire?

                  p.s. It was great seeing you in game Unkl, welcome back to Ps2!



                  • #10
                    Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

                    Yes I did intend to post here because it was a natural outgrowth of this thread and the discussion therein. However, if you think it deserves its own thread, feel free to move it, or ask me and I will repost it in its own thread. :)
                    [MENTION=38102]Unkl[/MENTION] That would be great! Not only would we get the benefit of your experience and keen insight, BUT I would get a chance to shoot you, something I have been waiting for... ;)
                    The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


                    • #11
                      Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

                      [MENTION=50907]Garthra[/MENTION] - You idea will probably gain more traction in it's own thread, instead of buried here.



                      • #12
                        Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire


                        Many of us have been asking these very same questions for a long time now. We even tried a few things, but not as structured and as scientific a method of testing as you propose. But I think that your way is better (by that I mean it will produce a better result/outcome/SOP/doctrine). I also agree it fits our niche perfectly. Now I only wish I could get in game to help out with this, because I am excited about it, too. But unfortunately I am moving (again) and my computer is basically packed up for now... so I have to get my fix by only being a forum warrior for the time being. lol

                        Anyway, I wanted to throw out one idea that someone (Vlad, ghost maybe?) had when we did our playing around with this the first time. Their suggestion was to have a MAX (or HA, if MAX was unavailable on the fly) lead in on point and basically run through the fatal funnel to the far corner of the room and then turn around and open fire on enemies. The idea being to draw fire, but also confuse and frighten the enemy, in order to give the rest of the breachers a little more chance to sweep in ADS and mop up. I thought it was a good idea.

                        We (I think credit for this goes to Assault9, actually) also figured out that bouncing the nades off the door jambs was a good tactic. Door jambs are very wide in PS2 and so this is not too difficult a skill to master with a little bit of practice. Also, this way you can get your nades in (and get them back into corners and other areas behind cover) without exposing yourself.
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw


                        • #13
                          Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

                          REPOSTED post #7 (describing plan) IN ITS OWN THREAD, per Mindkill suggestion.
                          Last edited by Garthra; 07-28-2014, 08:56 PM. Reason: Updated.
                          The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


                          • #14
                            Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

                            I could lead the OPFOR squad. I have TS to communicate with you and a vanu alt.


                            • #15
                              Re: Equiping Offensive Infantry for Hip Fire

                              Would definitely be interested in helping, timing/availability pending, naturally.




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