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The Ideal Static Defense for a "Triple"

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  • The Ideal Static Defense for a "Triple"

    There have been a couple recent discussions of point holds recently, with ghost posting up how the TR do it (a more fluid defense), as well as some discussion in the recent AAR thread from FNF.

    I am not sure this particular subject has been hashed out before, but for a long time now I have thought we should sort of come up with a standard setup for doing a point hold on a "triple." You know, those 2 story (3, if you count the roof, hence the name "triple") buildings with 2 stairs from ground to second level, and 2 from second level to roof, and often times with a balcony also.

    This is an idea I have been mulling about for a while, so let us begin the discussion.

    I like the idea of one MAX at the bottom of each stairwell (or at least the primary expected avenue of advance), with an Engineer right behind him repairing (with his E-turret already pre-deployed at the top of stairwell as a fallback and as cover for the rest of the squad to use). This allows said MAX to bob and weave around the corner and clear out enemies where they tend to accumulate, and prevents them from piling up and setting up a proper breach, as well as just hanging out down there and spamming grenades up the stairwell.

    Taking this further, I think the ideal choke points to hold are the two stairwells to the bottom floor, with the two to the roof and the back balcony being secondary (i.e., could be covered by a MAX or a Heavy). Thats 4-5 guys (MAXes / Heavies) in the squad right there. Plus 2-3 Engis, that's 7. Add one Infil for darts, that's 8. And 3 Medics gets you to 11. Add one Heavy or MAX to roam and help out where needed. The Medics and Backup Engis and roaming HA should also watch the windows and other weird places for LAs sneaking and throwing C4 and stuff in.

    I also like SS's idea of calling out "primary" and "secondary" as I have heard him do in game lately, but I wonder if this pulls people off of their static defenses, particularly on the secondary entrances upstairs, etc. (although this may be necessary at times?).

    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

  • #2
    Re: The Ideal Static Defense for a "Triple"

    At the end of the day it all depends on how the enemy reacts to us. The two major factors and break a point hold are 1- grenade spam (not much we can do about that) 2- Maxes getting to over confident.

    I think we take more casualties from grenade spam then actual gun fire. That's why I always say run flack armor for point holds. Also calling out grenades is very important especially for medics. While on the subject on grenades I tend to ask the squad to throw their grenades at a certain time usually towards the end of the cap, even medics at the last 10 seconds of the cap if the fighting is rough I tell medics to throw rezz grenades throughout the room every few seconds.

    After running dedicated max squads I noticed something. Players tend to get over confident. Only because we have 4 engineers in the squad doesn't mean you should wait until you have 25% health left to start backing up. When I'm about to hit 50% health I pull out of the fight and look for a engie. Why? because repairing a max at 50% health is faster then one at 25% or one that had to be revived. Also guys everyone tries to do their best when repairing and healing so please remember that they are soft targets. If you start taking damage there is a high chance they are also.

    Now that I got that out of the way:

    I've been trying to come up with new ideas for point holds. I tried laying down smoke in each stairway but the smoke would go through the walls and ceiling. What I want to try is having a "max crash" style where everyone that is not a max would switch to a stairway. All the Maxes would run down the opposite side and flank the enemy. This would require the charge ability to be very effective. Once the maxes are back this will give is a few seconds of breathing room which would allow everyone to heal and repair.


    • #3
      Re: The Ideal Static Defense for a "Triple"

      Good discussion topic. Here are my thoughts.

      The point I keep coming back to is the very large number of spaces that need to be covered. 2 entrances to roof. 1 balcony. (I think) 2-3 windows, at least one of which is big enough for light assaults to enter. 2 stairways to the bottom level. So that is at a minimum 5 entrances. (4 stairs, 1 balcony.) That means that to cover all the entrances you cannot have more than 2 or three guys per entrance in a 12 man squad. If the enemy hits any entrance with 12 guys your defense force will be hard pressed to hold.

      The more flexibility you allow, the more likely you will leave one or more of those entrances unguarded. An unguarded entrance is like playing Russian roulette, you never know when it will kill you, maybe not this time, but sooner or later. . . The flip side is if one entrance is left unguarded other entrances can be reinforced.

      If you hold one half the building you cut that number almost, but not quite in half. (Because you add the door in the middle of the room as something that needs to be covered. So X / 2 +1) Downside is you increase risk from grenades by concentrating forces into a small room.

      The idea of a push out of one side to flank and create space on the other is a good idea. The trouble I find with it is that it relies on very tight discipline and speed. If this flank is done quickly, and the other defenders adjust, the time of risk you create by leaving entry points unguarded is minimized.

      The reason I say it relies on discipline is the one time I tried to do this, my MAXes outright refused. I had 2+ MAXes holding this building. I didn't do quite what Ghost is desctibing. I told the whole squad we are pushing down a particular stairway, flanking them on the 1st floor and then going back up. Trouble was my MAX players kept saying hey needed repairs before they advanced. This created 10-15 seconds of time when the other players had fallen back to the stairway we should have been leaving through but the MAXes had not advanced. So our defense was compromised and we were now "holding" one stairway, which is not good in any way. I help telling the squad that as far as we knew they had 1 max down there, we had several, although they were not full health, we should be able to beat 1 max. Still my maxaes refused. I almost pulled my hair out right there at my computer. We ended up not flanking fast enough and getting wiped.

      I forget who that MAX who refused was, he might read this. So I want to say he was not wrong to mention his low health, and he may have been right he would have died if he had advanced. I am not disputing either that action or his conclusion. What I am saying is based on my experience, without tight discipline, and I mean tight, this plan will not work.
      The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


      • #4
        Re: The Ideal Static Defense for a "Triple"

        There's not a lot of flexibility for a single squad in holding a triple deck building. It's a common defensive location that we've gotten very good at locking down, but we typically do so from the stairwells. Majority of the squad focuses on locking down the stairs (which form long wide corridors with poor cover at the bottom and nothing on the way up) and we're able to manage pretty substantial enemy force by doing so. The buildings are porous, though, and light assaults (and depending on the base, other classes) can easily engage us through the windows or upper deck stairs/balcony. One person wreaking havoc up there can destabilize the defensive line at a critical point and cause everything to collapse.

        Some thoughts on managing it with a single squad:
        • Tightening it to one room is going to cause the defense to collapse. The other room can now serve as a staging point for the breach on the other, now that the advantage of the defensible stairwell is gone.
        • In initial stages of the defense, we can push down to the bottom of the stairs, or even attempt to hold from the first floor. The first floor has four entrances, which makes it a tough room to hold, but as long as the enemy hasn't taken the room the stairs are solid cover that a medic can safely revive people from. Using the stairs would require a good sense of when it's just too risky to cover; worst case res grenades can be burned on reviving people out of position, but that's not a great use of those grenades.
        • The majority of the squad should be locking down the stairwells, in particular any MAXs and engineers with turrets. Medics shouldn't be holding the line anyhow, so they should be floating, watch for needed revives and helping cover windows/balcony/upper deck stairs. Anyone left over can float (with good players, their moment to moment battle sense will help a lot) or be assigned to locking down specific enemy flanking opportunities, in particular the windows where they can also harass enemies coming in.
        • When the enemy is massing for a breach, grenades do wonder for keeping them off balance, and will buy some time.
        • We need to remember to bring darts/motion sensors along with us to help predict flanking attempts and breach attempts.
        • MAX crashes essentially spell the end of any static defense unless we see it coming and can get C4/AT on it ASAP

        Once there are more squads available the options increase dramatically. In particular, if there's a second squad they're probably more helpful on overwatch rather than stacked up in the building. More people just increases the vulnerability to grenades and increases the risk of friendly fire. Some ideas:
        • Place overwatch squad off to the side with a good view of the building (in particular, able to cover the roof and windows) out of the main path of the enemy advance. The overwatch squad can shoot them in the side, make it difficult to gather their forces, and distract them, and will be in a position where the enemy needs to go well out of their way to deal with them.
        • Place overwatch squad on the roof. From this position they can put a ton of fire on anyone advancing on the building, as well as secure the upper stairwells. A squad on the roof, while vulnerable to air attack, can thin out the enemy before it reaches the primary defense squad AND provide critical intelligence that the static defense team doesn't have.
        • Use the second squad as a harassment element within the base, moving constantly and causing havoc. One thing that can be done here is a periodic, organized breach of the lower floors of the point building, allowing the secondary squad to disrupt and hopefully sweep out the gathering attackers
        • Use the second squad to run vehicles, particularly AI liberators, and suppress the spawn, the approaches to the point building, etc. If you can keep the vehicles effective the enemy will waste a huge amount of effort on clearing the airspace and won't be able to operate as infantry until you're out of the way.


        • #5
          Re: The Ideal Static Defense for a "Triple"

          -Overwatch can be extremely useful, even if its only a single person doing it, not for the oppressive element (Witch can be achieved through a full squad) but through the info achieved. Darts can only tell you that infantry are coming, Not what kinds of infantry. An overwatch infil with a sniper will be able to tell you that most of that infantry outside is maxes or heavies, if the breach looks fairly organized or not ETC... along with softening the occasional player to half health, Ideally the medics.




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