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  • Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

    I would like to hear your thoughts on coordinating multiple galaxy drops.

    My thoughts are
    First method:
    1.) ID which gal is first which is second
    2.) Follow like a train, drop one after the other.
    Problem: Slow, squad by squad.

    Anyone have other thoughts?
    The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

  • #2
    Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

    With more than one gal in the drop, it is safer to have all the gal follow in one path or drop at each area from the same angled flight plan

    There have been many time I have repeatedly dropped to a point going 'counter clock ways' around a base (gun 4 pointed low, looking at the base), only to be hit by a rouge craft going clock ways or crossing my exit path. This may not be too much of an issue after the drop, but, if two full gals meet this way, that's 20+ souls and the objective lost.

    Could try:
    1st gal engage ground targets ie roof tops, aa then lead air away from drop area(no drops)
    2nd Gal follow 1st gal in and drops
    any other gals continue as above.
    Simpilest Alpha -> Bravo -> Carlie -> Delta

    Another way to run if running multiple full squads eg 3 sqauds:
    Each gal has polite and at lease one gunner, eg three squads less 6 players, which makes 10 dropping per squad or 30 boots on the ground with 6 viable spawn options (3 gals 3 beacons)

    First pass all gals clear drop area then drop gal be gal. While the troop are on the ground, the gals follow each other around the LZ engaging threats and covering each other when repairs/reloads are needed.


    First method:
    1.) ID which gal is first which is second
    2.) Follow like a train, drop one after the other.
    Problem: Slow, squad by squad
    Unless wave off is called:
    Platoon chevron would mark funnel area or common path for all gals to pass through
    Squad chevrons would mark each gals drop area after passing Platoon mark
    Personal way points would mark safe zones

    I would also suggest when gal/SL drops, the SL relays back to PL a short siterep and drop status:
    'squadX' dropped{on target|missed|wiped|waved off}

    (6..~)Z Z z z....

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

      One problem I'd like to note when doing multiple gal drops is something that actually occurred during last nights operations. Specifically at Indar Comm. Array. Alpha and Bravo were tasked with dropping on the building just south of the point at that base. What ended up happening was we both arrived within 10 seconds of each other. Alpha galaxy was below me as I moved in to drop. The amount of AA present at the base made it a very time sensitive op. Alpha gal was destroyed while I was forced to hold my drop (troops dropping from my gal would have hit the Alpha gal below me) and by the time I could position, I had already been shot down.

      The train idea of having multiple gals fly in one after the other has its advantages, but also has a few flaws being that not every 2 gals are going to be outfitted in the same fashion in terms of chassis, defense slot etc. This being the case, the amount of damage taken will differ, as well as the time to target. For timing multiple drops, gal pilots must be able to coordinate themselves. Not the PL or the SL of said squads. Reason being the pilots are the ones who have the most information about the situation they are currently in and know exactly what the can and cannot do. I believe that keeping platoon comms available for the gal pilots to coordinate would be extremely beneficial. Also, depending on what the drop location(s) is/are, it is entirely possible for two galaxies to drop on the same area simultaneously if we pilots could talk and coordinate. If 2 gals were able to drop troops at more or less the same time on approximately the same location it would be less problematic for the troops dropping onto the ground and engaging in combat.
      #BlameCairbre

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

        This is a quite hard question to answer. From my point of view, it involves too many variables that TG squads can't handle (yet), including:
        - loadout dependant: Time To Travel, approach vector (altitude, speed, angle), deceleration, acceleration, escape route vector
        - pilot's skill dependant: approach vector (no, no. No. Don't go straight for a waypoint.), positionning time
        - squad cohesion dependant: Time To Drop
        - situation dependant: open field, clear/with antenna roof, near/under structures/trees (all relates then to pilot's time to position his Gal), enemy DPS
        - PL composition dependant: you may not want to drop AI support Alpha before AV close range Bravo on a hostile sundy position...

        Considering you have 1) a defined drop location with hostiles, but not enough to blow a Galaxy in less than 10 seconds, and 2) people dropping on call, then 2 to 4 gals can "easily" approach, halt, drop on the same waypoint, and wave off one after each other. That's theory. In practice, you'll end up with different approach/escape vectors, Gal #2 already starting to take incoming fire on WP to drop, and Gal #1 going down, spreading debris onto the dropped squad.

        In my opinion, for simplicity's sake, having one drop waypoint per Gal is the best solution. There's enough room on a triple roof for 2 side by side Galaxies. Better drop 2 squads on a roof, another one on the ground near a doorway and another one on another doorway. It's been proven over and over: you can't drop 4 squads on an overwhelmed triple's roof with a positive outcome.

        To keep it fast and simple for specific situations, like a heavily defended building or Tech Plant assaults, PL should point each drop location with a waypoint, and request a precise drop order and interval time (that could be standard). This would look like "PL to gal pilots, order is Bravo - Delta - Alpha - Charlie. Drop locations are marked by colored squad waypoints, approach vector is Stronghold Canyon low altitude to Tawrich mid deck low altitude." It obviously needs work, but taking 30 seconds to coordinate 4 Galaxies without a hurry is decisive.

        Talking about being hasty on Galaxy drops and coordination...



        Let me divert a bit.

        First, as I was telling Thugz yesterday, unless burning and going down, we should definitely empty at least one bulldog on the drop zone and clear as much hostiles as possible. It makes the enemy focus on the Gal instead of the dropping squad, and causes enough chaos/deaths to avoid wipe on drop. That would be Gal #1's job. We're talking about 48 people sized operations. Keeping 1 Gal pilot and 1 Gal gunner for CAS job is definitely a good idea.

        Reading Thugz and VTS, I think it's a really, really bad idea to try making some sort of SL/PL led SOP for drops. Apart from very specific situations, that's a pilot's job to plan his course and decide the best insert point, the closer to the squad waypoint he can. You want a safe drop ? Give your pilot the time he needs.
        The main reason is that the pilot usually has a split second to decide how and where to drop (render distance, angle of visibility), safely enough for both the squad and his asset (hello TG primer). On a hot drop location, there's clearly not enough time for the pilot to inform his SL about correcting the drop point (nor enough time for people to drop late), and I'm not even talking about how a Gal is agile when throttle down. Now, add air traffic and hostile flak blinding your screen and cluttering your comms. There you are.

        Instead, I'd like to see if regular TG Gal pilots are up for setting their own rules and habits that would include how to drop multiple squads, comms, approach/rotation/loop. Think about an API, SL/PL ask for a precise drop, and get their drop without interfering. There's a lot to discuss, and the less a SL/PL will have to guide his pilots, the best it will go. I clearly remember a similar debate about leading a tank column...

        Without big surprises, I have a lot of documentation, tutorials, AAR and "after the drop" footage available to start this.

        Ba-dum-tss
        My life before TG http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Cairbre
        Who cares about stats ? http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Cairbr

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

          [MENTION=71652]Cairbre[/MENTION] ; I see what you are saying about pilot to pilot communications. Since they are different squads it is hard to coordinate. Maybe pilots should be in TS when possible in their own Team Speak channel? So they have their own channel?
          Interesting idea on using gals to clear roof prior to drop. However, bulldogs cannot shoot directly onto the roof beneath them, so pilots would have to circle or strafe away from or onto the drop zone first. But this can be done.

          How about this, would it help to give gal pilots 30 seconds to look at the target, and plan the route before charging into a situation? Also allow some time for clearing the drop zone.
          This would be a little slower but perhaps more effective and survival based?
          Last edited by Garthra; 09-21-2015, 02:54 AM.
          The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

            How about this, would it help to give gal pilots 30 seconds to look at the target, and plan the route before charging into a situation? Also allow some time for clearing the drop zone.
            This would be a little slower but perhaps more effective and survival based?
            Following from the statement from [MENTION=71652]Cairbre[/MENTION]

            The gal pilot need to be in control of the Pick up and drop off area
            {the SLs job should be to adapt to the change in their plan, if something else happens (miss drop/Bail etc)}


            I remember a few times when the (xL) has order a drop, saying go this way, or has diverted before the drop, and said go straight to here, time dependant. If the XL adds 30 seconds to their plan then the gal pilot can reroute or decide if an area is safe to drop

            I do find when I 'follow the (xL)s order to a T, 70% of the time the gal drop fails:
            The time it takes to STOP, HOLD, MOVE, is long enough for mounted AA to reduce the gal to a one hit kill, so, there is no time to wait for a green light. Under fire, Once slowed down, it time to drop or bail.

            On the way to a base I, as the pilot, will look for an entry point, an area to hold, and an exit point with some where I can get some cover, like buildings or land formation between the detected AA and the gal. Sometime I may call the drop before or after the LZ depending on the current situation.

            Another issue for a gal pilot is squad timing:

            On the Drop call, I wish to only wait a few seconds for the squad to drop, I have now started to count 3 sets of 'DROP, DROP, DROP', and on the last set I will accelerate up and move out, even if I am still holding squad members so I can move to safety.

            The same with pickups, I call out when I am with in 500 meters of the Waypoint/LZ, sometime calling out my direction.

            With this, I hope/wish that SL only call for pick up when all the squad is within 100 meters of the pickup area. I am looking to find an area, to land/hover, within a 200 meter radius of the way point, which has the least amount of AA/AV and the most amount of cover.

            Again when a Squad lead call for pickup location, many time they do not know what method the gal polite can use, so its best to leave the actual pickup area to the gal :)

            Once, an SL had ordered the gal to land in an open field 200+ meters away from the OA... now, while the SL was running to the WP, the rest of the squad loaded up on the gal, which I had wedged between two building, 10 meters from where the SL was standing, when they call for pick up. On this occasion it was funny, and I had extracted the squad then had to wait for the SL the reach the WP to pick them up as well.

            But when under fire I wish to get in and out as fast as I can, the longer I am exposed, the more chance the gal will die.

            If the squad is scattered I will try to land near a MAX 1st (so if you get lost, find a MAX), I will hold until I feel the area is too hot, then move off

            (6..~)Z Z z z....

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

              Originally posted by Garthra View Post
              Cairbre ; I see what you are saying about pilot to pilot communications. Since they are different squads it is hard to coordinate. Maybe pilots should be in TS when possible in their own Team Speak channel? So they have their own channel?
              Pilot should have their own TS channel at best, or be in an empty room at least, but I don't think this is top priority. We can usually follow each other and coordinate simply looking at our map. If it's complex enough to require tight coordination between Gals, maybe PL is being too ambitious ^_^

              Originally posted by Garthra View Post
              Interesting idea on using gals to clear roof prior to drop. However, bulldogs cannot shoot directly onto the roof beneath them, so pilots would have to circle or strafe away from or onto the drop zone first. But this can be done.
              This is your pilot's call. Best case scenario, you empty 20 rounds and clear the area, taking light hostile fire. Worst case scenario, you empty 5 rounds, kill one HA, and loose your Gal anyway. CAS should start when approaching, not when waving off.

              Let's say you have a Hossin Construction Site roof drop, hostiles both on the roof and on the ground, spreading from the point and the spawn room. Your friendly Gal pilot can turn sideways at 200m, strafing to the LZ, with a Bulldog pointing at it. While dropping/leaving, the other bulldog can now point at the spawnroom and try to pick off some of the reinforcements.



              Most of the time, it will be about being creative.

              Originally posted by Garthra View Post
              How about this, would it help to give gal pilots 30 seconds to look at the target, and plan the route before charging into a situation? Also allow some time for clearing the drop zone.
              This would be a little slower but perhaps more effective and survival based?
              This is something every pilot should do. Have your map set to hostile heatmap, plan a course that avoids large concentrations of enemies as well as isolated 1-12 deep in friendly territory (usually an enemy air force). Set your personnal waypoint on the last safe turn, then go full speed for the drop point. It takes less than 30 seconds and can be done while flying. Again, there's a lot to say on that.


              Originally posted by vts View Post
              The gal pilot need to be in control of the Pick up and drop off area
              {the SLs job should be to adapt to the change in their plan, if something else happens (miss drop/Bail etc)}
              Thank you VTS for summing up ! I'd even add, the gal pilot need to be in control of the path to the WP...

              Ba-dum-tss
              My life before TG http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Cairbre
              Who cares about stats ? http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Cairbr

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

                Nice to see this topic getting some attention. Cairbre and vts have covered most of the main points pretty well. :)

                I would only like to add that the reason I choose max Flak Armor, is so that I have the most time on target available to me, whether doing CAS (rarely) or (much more likely these days) just a straight drop.

                Or, the best role is, as Cairbre has pointed out, doing some sweep of the LZ and/or limited CAS during the drop. Of course how much really depends on how the enemy pop and AA are. Perhaps this should be specified on the way in also by the Gal pilot? For example, the difference between, "this is a 96+ enemy pop with heavy AA, no time for CAS, we will be coming in low and fast, be ready to drop quickly on my command" vs. "this is only a 2 squad enemy pop, we are dropping 2 squads, but first both Gals will make one revolution of CAS to sweep the LZ before dropping on the target" or something like that. Maybe the PL could even stipulate that when giving orders.

                Whether this is the PL, SL, or Gal pilot making this call/announcement, largely depends on who is SL/PL. If it is me, or someone knowledgeable in Gal flying / airborne operations, we understand the proclivities of the Gal better than others, and are better suited to making such calls. Otherwise, maybe leave it to the Gal pilot in squad/prox (on the way in I mean)? Same thing goes for specifying LZs for pickup. I think I give pretty good LZs, I know Garthra does also from my experience being the Gal pilot when he is SL on the ground. So I suppose who the players involved are should dictate who makes the call, instead of some arbitrary fixed policy.
                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Multiple Gal Drops Ideas?

                  Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post
                  Or, the best role is, as Cairbre has pointed out, doing some sweep of the LZ and/or limited CAS during the drop. Of course how much really depends on how the enemy pop and AA are. Perhaps this should be specified on the way in also by the Gal pilot? For example, the difference between, "this is a 96+ enemy pop with heavy AA, no time for CAS, we will be coming in low and fast, be ready to drop quickly on my command" vs. "this is only a 2 squad enemy pop, we are dropping 2 squads, but first both Gals will make one revolution of CAS to sweep the LZ before dropping on the target" or something like that. Maybe the PL could even stipulate that when giving orders.
                  Since it comes to the pilot to call for the drop, I think there's no need for heavy comms between pilot and SL. Anyone in a turret should listen for the "weapons green" call and start engaging, until the drop order. This roughly has the same outcome, with less chatter and entirely bypassing SL, making him frustrated free to look and check the LZ surroundings. The only exception would be SL asking specifically for a quick drop with no CAS.

                  Trying to get someone to gun after the drop requires to adapt the squad composition too. You don't want your only medic to stay up in the air - but tbh, keeping SL (or some kind of platoon spotter relaying intel on Teamspeak) in an orbiting, CAS Gal could be a nice experiment.


                  Originally posted by Randy_Shughart_ClwFL View Post
                  "be ready to drop quickly on my command"
                  Everybody should drop quickly anyway, there is no "chill out, take your time" drop order :p

                  Ba-dum-tss
                  My life before TG http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Cairbre
                  Who cares about stats ? http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Cairbr

                  Comment

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