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Base Location and Building Tips Thread

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  • Base Location and Building Tips Thread

    We have a threat on base busting. What are your tips on good base location selection and base construction? I figure a planned base is better than a "well hey lets see if this fits here" base...

    My experience is canyons make surprisingly effective locations because the air shield can in effect become a ground defense as the valley walls slope into it. The main disadvantage of canyons in the real world is the ability of the enemy to get high ground around you, but air shields really nullify that. The biggest weakness I saw was Light assualts dropping C4 through the shield onto structures.

    Layered defense is better than one layer. But enemies can use walls as cover, so the reality is you need a quick reaction force to really stop any attack that will otherwise eat you piecemeal and use your buildings as cover.
    Ideally this force should be centered OUTSIDE the base, as by the time you need a QRF you are likely sieged in.

    I have yet to figure out defensive coordination aside from a split between an external QRF and an internal repair/survival force. Base defense has been so chaotic that I generally let people act on their own initiative, but I figure a tactical division of labor may be optimal, if we can only figure out what it would be...

    What do you guys think?
    The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

  • #2
    Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

    For locations, canyons are great, but so is any place where there's enough of a slope that you can intersect a sky shield with it and block it off. The back side of a sufficiently steep hill works well, for instance, and there are a few places on Indar or Amerish where you can 100% (or close to 100%) seal off a base from infantry intrusion with the shield, like the crater on the NW edge of Indar.

    However, that's not a be-all-end-all; another major consideration is what angles of attack armour has for shelling you. The base we built in a canyon on Hossin was well served by the sky walls, but our northern side was extremely exposed to a lot of flat ground, especially since we were on high ground that made us very visible. By and large we were able to hold the base, but armour assault from the north was a continuous problem, only made survivable by aggressive anti-vehicle pushes whenever we were threatened. A larger or more organized siege force would have unrooted us.

    By contrast, the base we built at Northpoint Station on Esamir, bordering the northern map edge, had extremely limited sight lines for armour. While we didn't have the advantages of skyshields blocking anything but the steepest approaches on the hill, we had the advantage of enemy armouring needing to crest a nearby rise in order to fire on us, bringing them into close range with us and making them easy to deal with.

    I agree with you on the utility of a quick reaction force or otherwise external defense team, and I think they definitely need to be run in a very different way from the team managing the base itself. I have also found that base defense is chaotic, requires the squad to spread to cover everything, and requires many different roles (manning turrets, running ANTs, building stuff, repairing stuff, all of which requires people to switch up their current role constantly). That means a base management squad loses the cohesion we're used to, and makes them very hard to coordinate on a task on a dime. An external QRF, though, doesn't ever need to lose cohesion and can remain responsive as a result.

    Even better, the external team can proactively engage enemy armour and prevent siege lines from forming, and can hold vital positions a distance away from the main group. Base defense typically means ceding the initiative and letting the enemy engage on their own terms, but an actively maneuvering defense team (especially in armour) can disrupt them and make it difficult for them to get the footing they need to actually push on an actively manned base.


    • #3
      Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

      Building, defending and core management

      To keep in check who has built a critical building, an SL could put all players in a fire team, and when they are done building, drop them into the main squad, once in the main squad they are able to roam or follow defence orders as needed.

      critical building - also includes Spawn sunders or any part of the base that if removed will make security holes in the layout of the base.

      This is also useful if you decide to drop a another core behind the current base as whoever is left in the fire team should be able to build at least the basic structures with volunteers to drop parts not used in the main base (garage, shields, etc).

      Meaning that the rest of the squad is free to defend both bases as they are in the same local area.

      Having all your cores in the same area has both a positive and negative issue.

      The positive side, one squad can patrol the small area, and react faster to any engagements if all the cores are in the same area.

      With the cores spread, one squad would take a longer time to reach the next base leavening the main base undefended OR splitting the squad into smaller sections. The safest option would be to only support the one base.

      The same goes for the enemy:
      spread cores either split the enemy or they will group up and them out one by one
      Cores in one location may generate a huge fight

      If the fight DOES get this big, as well as having armour defence around the base, infantry will be needed ON each base, or able to deploy to the base. This is the second reason to have an active spawn sunder at each base.

      Remember -
      * The players fighting around Cored bases will get extra XP for doing so.

      * If your faction has the most cores active they will get 2 Temporary VPs while this holds true.

      * Taken cores can be reassigned to neutral if you do not use then in a set time which makes them available to every faction.

      * So even having all 15% cores can net you 2 VPs if you have the most active cores.

      * The longer you hold a cored base the stronger the core will get (*untested)

      (6..~)Z Z z z....


      • #4
        Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

        My experience has me preferring flat open spaces and secondary to that flat plateaus.

        Flat open spaces:
        --Easy building, few obstructions, terrain elevation changes interfere less with desired base design.
        --You know your enemy. They have nowhere/few places to hide (including Air). They come to feed the turkey shoot.
        --Base turrets across the base can focus fire as there is only the base itself that can impede its line of sight.
        --Response forces maneuver space is clear and may improve response time to certain threats

        --Location type is rare. Most candidates are ruined by rolling hills that impede base building and give cover to enemy forces
        --360 degree exposure to attacks. Attackers are not funneled into desired kill zones. Difficult to stack overwhelming firepower
        --Turrets and reaction forces are only defense against long range siege armor. Base infantry cannot engage at long range.
        --Impact of base destruction is increased due to increased reliance on it for cover for the defenders
        --Reaction forces have have much larger area to to patrol slowing response times in some cases.

        Flat plateaus:
        --Natural defense against armor entering close range
        --Enemy siege attacks suffer from minor line of sight issues due to the plateau forcing stand off ranges
        --Enemy forced to fight up hill battle against walled defenders
        --Base wall destruction does not necessarily equate to full base breach as the plateau still provides some cover and hampers armor aggression

        --Location type extremely rare
        --Enemy has cover from base to place sunderers for siege at bottom of plateau on nearly all sides of the base
        --enemy infantry and armor may have cover at short range
        --Terrain makes base logistics difficult and predictable
        --Enemy Air may be able to use low altitude to move in for close strikes at minimal risk to themselves

        There is more that can be said about these but here are some of the more important thoughts I had to share.


        • #5
          Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

          I had a 3 squad platoon that I ran some base ops in the past,

          Getting resources to the base location serves to be the most difficult part of getting a base up for me. A tactic I've used recently employs a very simple system that i believe would work even if broken down to a single squad.

          1) Everyone spawns at the warpgate
          2) Setup a squad of designated resource collectors - anti vehicle - anti air.
          3) AV brings up the front of the pack, ANT's form up near the middle and anti air brings up the rear.
          4) Move from warpgate along roads and fill up ANT's with cordium.
          5) Reset armor column in part 3's formation about 1-2 bases back from enemy lines you plan on crossing.
          6) Designate route to base location (Less roads the better)
          7) Arrive on site, AV forms defensive perimeter while AA forms the core of the soon to be base.
          8) As base construction begins reassign all roles as needed.

          This method presented a near flawless method of transportation of cordium (we had close to a silo and a half loaded up in ants) and we only lost a friendly harasser to a crafty enemy liberator and a sunderer due to it going off course and flipping from the rugged terrain that we had decided to cross.


          • #6
            Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

            Just wanted to share these maps so everyone knows they exist.

            HIVE Efficiency Maps!


            • #7
              Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

              Thanks Alex

              Its looks like the same link I placed on Team speak (without the #conversation)

              Shows non deploy areas for each map and Hive efficiency

              For Hive Efficiency:
              * Select the map your on
              * Select the Warp Gate your at
              Use that map for reference

              You can also use it to find out when the best place an enemy might place a hive

              (6..~)Z Z z z....


              • #8
                Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                Originally posted by Alex021 View Post
                Just wanted to share these maps so everyone knows they exist.

                HIVE Efficiency Maps!
                Yes we were discussing this "on the fly" in game the other day, much better to have them brought to the general awareness here in the forums for study / digestion at everyone's leisure, and then also as a reference during base operations...

                Thanks for posting! +Rep!
                "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw


                • #9
                  Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                  find whole in the ground... put up sky shield... PROFIT!!!


                  • #10
                    Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                    Were you there the other day when I built that one base on Hossin in the hole that was 100% efficiency? Actually, maybe I should make an AAR on that...
                    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw


                    • #11
                      Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                      Just found out last night that spitfires are the perfect height to be placed in constructable walls. Combined with a shield module, the spitfire's vulnerability is taken out of the equation and you can turn a wall into an automated infantry killer. With multiple spitfires side by side that's a fair bit of firepower.


                      • #12
                        Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                        Dude, that's awesome! lol

                        I suppose that also helps with the issue of enemy siege infantry being able to use your own walls for cover against you, too. Although I guess they could still crouch down, and/or maybe use the little angled corners for cover, once they got close enough? Wouldn't be able to shoot in though without getting shot themselves. Pretty neat.
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw


                        • #13
                          Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                          ... sigh, id appreciate myself small offensive type of cover, maybe engi based sand bag esque deployables that way approaching bases that are built in open fields isn't quite such a suicide run. Wish list also includes... Fixing the hitbox of sky shield, not accurate at all atm, bring in the xiphos's ai opperated ttk in just a little bit (because lets face it right now 2 -3 people can potentially hold up an entire squad and half on there own.) (Id appreciate giving la something that has the potential to make the ai turrets lose track, for a short time as well, maybe a distraction grenade.)

                          -That being said, I would love to see more varied buildings for base design, like say a two stage building that can house a module or two, sorta like the L shaped ones on dev made bases, things that make for interesting cover to both sides, so that we'll have varied and fun gunplay between defenders and offensive players. The most fun I have is when bases are built into interesting terrain so that all sides can shoot and not feel like there being eaten alive the moment they step out of the line. it gives defenders a chance to push out and destroy sundies, and the offensive a chance to push up. It creates an ebb and flow to battle, instead of a tank/turret slug fest. Also as it stands right now because of ai modules... the base building system does sorta give a big middle finger to la's, (a light assaults biggest advantage is height. ai locks onto you way easier when your up high so... theres also the fact that because skyshield hit boxes are basically broken, right now la's cant slip through the cracks theyd normally be able to vault into and help with the offense. Looking forward to the rocket rifle because at least then youd be able to play it like a speedy heavy (drifters). anyways rant over, Basically im looking for more engaging infantry play with the base building system, that and to fix the hitbox on skyshield and (VERY SLIGHTLY) make the ttk on the xiphos longer, at least when ai controlled, for now, ill stick to fighting at the old bases because i have more fun.


                          • #14
                            Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                            You might be in luck with the distraction grenade. I heard that they've got a revamped infiltrator decoy grenade on test that can distract turrets with AI.

                            As for the spitfires in the wall, I only briefly saw that a bunch of blues had set them up on our main barricade wall last night during the siege from Tawrich Depot. They seemed to be level with the windows and were firing nonstop; I'm guessing they had a reasonably field of fire, but they'd certainly not have the ability to hit anything close to the wall unless you placed the low as low as you could. That might actually be a viable strategy; you lose some vertical cover for objects behind the wall (in particular, silos and HIVEs) but a low wall that has the infantry firing platform level with the ground could host a bunch of spitfires without any blind spot close to the wall. Would only work on flat ground, but should work.


                            • #15
                              Re: Base Location and Building Tips Thread

                              -Problem is that is probably going to act as an infil only device witch is annoying because between cloak and emp they sorta only need it for distracting, light assault has basically no real defense against ai, and needs it more than infils or other class due to the nature of there play i can only hope the la will get one as well, and its not like, there is any real reason it could be over powered on the la. Max you get 4 nades and 2 c-4 in one go that takes down a module and 1 distraction nade to get into place and one to get out. I actually see them being more useful on light assault in all honesty because of the classes need to direct and trick the enemy on were there coming from. I dont really foresee any real argument as to why the la shouldn't get them. Like battle rifles, theres the argument of it's range and angle would be over powered. I dissagree but i can see the reasoning. But this it seems like it just makes sense.




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