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  • [INFO] Valkyrie Air Squad

    So Me and some TG peeps tonight were running in a squad together and we had the brilliant idea to pull some Valkyries.
    We had at one point 4 Valkyries active, all with hellion anti-tank nose cannons and it was devastating.


    Some quick pro's and cons for this kind of Valkyrie setup

    Pros:
    • The hellion is great for laying down fire on armor, multiply that by 6 (full squad) and oh baby.
    • When in groups, Valkyries can sustain a lot of damage and make it out for repair due to their high mobility.
    • High mobility means they can get at targets Liberators wouldn't usually be able to hit and live.
    • Low nanite investment means less people sitting around waiting for nanites.
    • People don't feel like they are doing nothing. (As an engineer on a battle valk I feel pretty useless/bored) One person is pilot and one person is gunner.
    • Low squad downtime. Repping a valk is quick, repulling a valk is quick, getting ammo for the hellion is quick.
    • Also that sweet sound that comes from that hellion. ◉‿◉

    Cons:
    • Frequent stops for ammo, the hellion dumps its ammo reserves FAST.
    • No real AA abilities, although the valk is tough to kill with an engineer repping it.



    TL;DR
    Valkyries are air harassers and the hellion is music to my ears. Full squad of hellion valks. \_(ツ)_/





  • #2
    Interesting idea.
    How do we counter the AA weakness? maybe lead enemy air back to a friendly AA turret? Or put 2x AA reavers into the mix? (so 5x valk, and 2x AAreaver for cover?)
    The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

    Comment


    • #3
      How about adding one or two Wyverns for air to air defense? Wyverns can easily start chipping away and distract a Liberator while Hellions closes the distance and pepper them with rounds. If we ever get the Rocklet Rifle then we can experiment with the AA rounds and hopefully have our own version of the TR Striker from the rumble seat to deter ESFs.

      Comment


      • #4
        I do like the idea of the two AA reavers. However, I should have been a bit more specific, the air weakness is to esf's. Things that are larger like galaxies, liberators and valks are easier to hit with the hellion and don't stand much of a chance.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've been hoping some people would start doing this. I've been playing with the idea in my head for a couple weeks and I think a squad of 4-6 valkyries can operate like more effective harassers. Gunner can swap to sideseat repair when you're going evasive, similar to the harasser - only need 2 people per valk.

          Garthra, rather than reavers, I think a better option would be an ammo / repair sunderer with walkers; 4x 2-man valkyries, and the last 2-4 people operate the AA sunderer. If there's an armor squad operating at the same time as the valk squad, the easiest thing would be to drag / lure enemy air into the AA bubble of the armor squad - which should have an AA sunderer and skyguard at a minimum.

          Valkyries are pretty difficult for aircraft to kill, so they're perfect bait.
          http://i.imgur.com/Pn1UxKo.png - Tactical Gamer // Planetside 2

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          • #6
            I think this is an interesting idea and could be powerful if we practiced. AA is definitely a concern. I like the 2 reaver support garthra mentioned but I think the real enemy is any cohesive squad that comes after the valk sqaud. 4 libs 3 gals or 12 mossie/scythes would tear a squad of valks up. Hit and Run from territory to territory would have to be a must.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SlyfoxV View Post
              I think this is an interesting idea and could be powerful if we practiced. AA is definitely a concern. I like the 2 reaver support garthra mentioned but I think the real enemy is any cohesive squad that comes after the valk sqaud. 4 libs 3 gals or 12 mossie/scythes would tear a squad of valks up. Hit and Run from territory to territory would have to be a must.
              Hit and run is essentially all you can do with the low ammo reserves of the hellion. its like 10 clips with upgraded ammo reserves and clips go fast on the hellion

              Comment


              • #8
                Just did some more testing with 5 valks. Anti-vehicle I would much prefer to have hellions. However, the CAS is a great all around weapon for AV, AA and AI.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I decided to explore some stats on the various valkyrie weapons a little more.

                  So far what I'm seeing - the Hellion HAS to be used within ~30-40m to be more effective than the Wyvern. For a large air squad, I think this is untenable. Going too low, especially in armor-heavy areas, gets you shot by tanks and harassers. Flying out of reach of these means being closer to 100m overhead and at that point you get a larger ammo pool, magazine, better accuracy, no spin-up, and equal or better damage with the wyvern.

                  In terms of kills per hour, the CAS 14-E gets almost an order of magnitude more kills than the hellion or wyvern, both of which are about equal. This makes sense - the CAS 14-E has explosive bullets and does pretty significant damage to infantry at short ranges.

                  Essentially what I'm seeing strongly suggests using the default wyvern unless the air squad can coordinate to get RIGHT on top of enemy armor, pretty much spitting distance and easily close enough to get hit by dumbfired rockets, let alone tank shells, halberds, and the like. For any sort of infantry support, the CAS 14-E should be used, and the valkyrie should be kept almost as low as possible.

                  For the Hellion and CAS 14-E, if the target it outside thermals range, it's outside the weapon's effective range.
                  For the wyvern, the distance it should be used at is outside thermals, so it should be equipped with magnification instead.

                  Summaries:

                  Wyvern
                  • Default gun
                  • Use it over the hellion if firing from a distance greater than 40m
                  • Use magnification optics instead of thermals or nightvision
                  • More sustainability and can fire for longer than the Hellion
                  • Not effective against infantry
                  • Better against aircraft than the wyvern (unless <40m)
                  Hellion
                  • Use it over the wyvern if firing from within 40m
                  • Use thermals over magnification; if your gunner can't see it, he won't shoot it. You want him shooting stuff close to you
                  • Very slow projectile speed
                  • Requires constant resupply
                  • Not effective against infantry
                  CAS 14-E
                  • Use it for killing infantry
                  • Use thermals over magnification - if the target is outside thermals range you won't kill him
                  • Should be used within 30m; you have to get really close
                  • Not effective against vehicles
                  • Bullets are explosive and can kill groups of infantry with ease
                  Basically, I don't think we should be using the hellion at all.

                  For reference,

                  Maximum effective engagement distance for Hellion and CAS 14-E ~40m
                  http://i.imgur.com/Pn1UxKo.png - Tactical Gamer // Planetside 2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How does the Hellion stack up as an ambush weapon? Use the Valk's ability to easily fly nap of the earth to approach unseen, unload in the 40m range?



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thats the game you play with the hellion essentially, I have used the wyvern, CAS and hellion in a squad of valks before and nothing beats the hellion in taking out an armor piece fast. I suppose based on the weapon you choose dictates how you are running the squad.

                      Hellion - Sneaky strikes and hitting the weak link in an armor column
                      CAS - Well rounded with an emphasis on AI. Stationary spawn suppression is where this shines.
                      Wyvern - Longer distance engagements. Works well with removing spawn logistics safely. Attacking larger air targets (anything but ESF's) is easy aswell. AI however is very tough with this weapon.

                      IMO I still think the hellion is an excellent choice against vehicles, even if stats suggest otherwise. However, the CAS is also a new found favorite of mine as well. Running 4 Valks as air support over a few 48-96 fights we put TG tags on 3 bases. If a base has no or limited stationary AA guns, valks provide great spawn suppression vehicles.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I like Winter's idea of the sundy as a trap and support hub. And what if we modified it to an ammo galaxy with 2 walkers and 2 drakes? It might be tough for the sundy to keep up from a location standpoint if we needed to quickly re-locate to another hex. I also like the idea of having a few reavers to support the group as well.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Things to remember about adding more to the mix is that the SL is only one man, the more moving parts you add to your concept means individual teams will need to learn how to operate to protocols which are only just being looked at. Another thing to look at is what is the goal of any squad or even platoon. A group of lone Valkyries is no more then a harassing element , while it can distract and attack by itself they won't be able to make real assaults against the enemy. Not to dissuade any of you from working on your air combat skills I ask that you consider what focus your SL is looking for and how can we improve our maneuvers as an outfit possibly helping with rapid platoon movement or a quick AT nest behind enemy lines with radar scouts up and able to capitalize on the squads armor hunting.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The 4 valks can be pulled form any air pad, even player built bases, even hacked terminals so starting/rally area could be anywhere needed at that time. Having at least one valk with scout radar may help.

                            This could be a 'when needed tactic', or a dedicated mission to maintain a valk squad

                            The team could be pre prepared using pocket player base structures like Silo air/vehicle terminal (to pull the valks from plus an ant to harvest the local cortium if needed.

                            Or the 'when needed tactic', the squad is doing eg 'base caps', but a group of targets are hindering this action, the squad forms a team to dispatch these targets, then returns to base capping.

                            I think it would help if what ever gun is used, its the same for the whole group as this would make focus fire easier and also to have ONE member as Target manager (SL or a fire team lead)


                            For the CONS:

                            You could add an ammo sunderer to the mix unmanned a valk gunner's sunderer maybe?

                            For the AA:

                            If you went the player base option, after working out the cost over time value, you could drop a few AA turrets plus AI mods, this could be a base to fall back on, to pull new valks But may have no value as a 'when needed tactic'

                            But if Air is a problem, then maybe its time to change your tactics to accommodate these new friends, which may bring an end to this current tactic and open up a whole new chapter in the TG book of Tactics.

                            Thanks for sharing UltimateMuffinMan

                            (6..~)Z Z z z....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wintermote, I just want you to know I always appreciate your weapons / numbers analyses! :)

                              Originally posted by starstriker1 View Post
                              How does the Hellion stack up as an ambush weapon? Use the Valk's ability to easily fly nap of the earth to approach unseen, unload in the 40m range?
                              I reject your contention that Valks are the only aircraft that can fly nap of the earth and approach unseen! XD
                              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw



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