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Refining Our Sunderer Destruction Tactic

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  • Refining Our Sunderer Destruction Tactic

    This situation seems to be happening quite a lot of late. We're travelling via Galaxy or Sunderer and spot an enemy Sunderer and decide to go for it as a target of opportunity. The squad drops a short distance away and Heavies begin engaging with long range AV while one or two more persons runs up to the Sunderer to plant C4. Either the C4 is detonated prematurely from the Heavy's rocket fire or there's still another squad member near the Sunderer when it goes off resulting in one or more team kills.

    I'd suggest if anyone in the squad intends to plant C4 on the Sunderer, they need to call it out via squad comms first so that all the other members can hold their fire until the bricks have been planted and they can safely exit the area and avoid the unnecessary team kills.

  • #2
    A good point. The guys running up with c4 are placing themselves at risk of both friendly and enemy fire.
    Coordinating that by holding fire is a good way to mitigate that risk.

    However, my thought is that we really shouldn't be using c4 in that situation at all.

    As you describe the hypothetical facts there is no doubt that the Heavy Assaults/Engineer turrets/sunderer guns will destroy the target... Its a target of opportunity, meaning we chose to get into this fight, likely because we thought we could win it fairly easily.

    Asking the rest of the squad to hold fire until the brick of c4 is placed may slow the time until the target is destroyed, particularly if the squad is large and has several heavies/a MAX/ anti-tank engineer turrets. Maybe with a small squad the c4 brick may do enough damage to speed the kill up, even allowing for the decreased damage while the rest of the squad waits for it to be placed... but it would have to be a squad without much AT. The distance between the friendly sunderer "dropping" the squad and the enemy sunderer would also be a factor.

    But beyond the time to kill the sunderer, I don't see how it is worth the risk to the guys with c4. What's the gain? Often the class with c4 is a medic, which makes that person even more valuable to the squad. If there are any defenders at all, running close to the sunderer adds to the risk. Even if the c4 placement and detonation is a success, the risk of the c4 guy getting killed by hostiles is real even with a small defense force. If the c4 guy goes down, even if the good guys win the battle, it will force the squad to stay at the location longer to pick up its downed member.

    Also, the c4 costs nanites and requires a re-equip to restock. The other types of ammo being used do not.

    In summary, based on the situation you describe, I don't think use of c4 is the best tactic based on the increased risk and use of nanites for little gain.

    However, I am in favor of using coordination and teamwork to minimize risk. Assuming you are going to send the c4 guy forward for some reason, it would be wise to coordinate it with the rest of the squad. I suggest the SL tells the heavies/engineers to target the front of the sunderer while the c4 guy runs for the back side. That way their rockets will not hit the friendly or his C4. (The SL could pick any side or portion of the sundy, this is just an example.)


    The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

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    • #3
      I agree, the use of C4 is mostly an xp thing, and can be much more effective with just rocket usage, I dont even carry C4 for that reason
      Strategic Analyst

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      • #4
        Witnessed a new way to destroy Sundies and large enemy armor columns today. Everyone pulled AV Heavies and loaded into a gal. We then dropped into the middle of the armor column and blew it apart from the inside out. Could be a useful tactic to start employing.

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        • #5
          Salevar, I am curious about the "drop in the middle" tactic you mentioned. My main concern is extreme danger of being run over and wiped out. But depending on the details... it could be effective.

          What was the size of your force? What was the size of the enemy force? How heavy were your casualties?
          The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

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          • #6
            The drop directly on the target can pay off brilliantly at times, especially when the enemy doesn't expect a crazy drop like that. TG generally strays away from the drops directly on targets due to the higher chance of wipe / suicide. We find that we can usually find a place of high ground and cover to engage armor groups. Doing so we can obtain the same reward without the higher risk of wiping. All that being said, we have seen fellow outfits such as CML use the direct drop to great effect when we need a target down "NOW".

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            • #7
              Direct drops should only be for the people carring c4 and ranged should be dropped at range in case you didn't get sight of all the NME's in the area. Its safer and can give you much more targets and defense instead of getting a direct drop only to be ran over by a harraser or any other smart opponent.



              FUN FUN

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              • #8
                Hey guys, Im new to planetside as of last night, so forgive my ignorance, but I found that a few people were smoking along the sides creating a fireline - and then when C4 was used, it was by a chap running along the flank into and thru the smoke, and retracting without being fired at by friendly's (for the most part)

                Seemed to work well as the spawn tank (I assume the sunderer) tended to ignore the smoke entirely as it provides cover for their own troops. Back when i played with TG on 2142 I carried the RDX Shotgun to allow the squad into the vents on the old titans and it was pretty much useless for anything but this, so maybe having someone carry smoke solely to provide cover for the C4 user would be an idea?

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                • #9
                  While a good idea, the most effective is usually an alpha strike by an entire squad with rocket launcher, in the format of an ambush. The idea then would be for the medics and engineers to provide support and sustainability to the heavies. Usually having a medic or engi dart out diminishes our heavy fire power over time.

                  Also as the item is destroyed it also kills everything within a close area. So running out will usually cause them to die as well if they're in proximity.

                  We will almost never hit a friendly running in from the side because we're focused on target. And we avoid friendly fire.
                  Strategic Analyst

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                  • #10
                    Had a bit more experience playing as a light assault now - and have found that sundies die nice and quick if u pod on or next to them drop cv and blow it while running to the rear to fire some rockets in, normally gets it into flames almost immediately. Killing sundies has become a bit of a micro hobby as im sick of blueberry's ignoring enemy spawn locations, similar to the spawn tubes in player bases.
                    In terms of sustained fire on the sundy, range is by far the best if you have some heavies, even with my rocket launcher i can hit quite accurately at range now.

                    I find C4 has been more use in breaking door way sieges by flying past and chucking one through and or off the roof / wall or adjacent structures.

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                    • #11
                      The main reason some blues ignore destroying enemy spawn locations comes down to easy certs. They'll gladly leave a sunderer or other spawn point in place so that enemies will keep spawning on it and they can get easy kills. Some folks will even complain in yell chat about you ruining "their farm" if you destroy it, even though it's a major problem at the base you are defending.

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                      • #12
                        A few problems with C4 if you're facing a shield sunderer: C4 tends to blow up all the other C4 nearby and one single (albeit huge) explosion only takes the shields down... you need two explosions (in fairly quick succession) to kill it. So unless you're very coordinated, throw enough C4 to take down the shields, detonate, then throw more C4, and detonate again, your guys will be standing there, probably will some people dead, out of C4, and the sunderer still alive.

                        Even an engineer can't carry enough C4 and grenades to blow up a shield sunderer without resorting to things that take too long, like the anti-vehicle turret.

                        There is one way though: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/273344382

                        An engineer with 5 tank mines, a sticky grenade, and ideally an explosive bolt crossbow (though anything that does heavy weapon or explosive damage can work, like an underbarrel grenade launcher) can take down a maxed out shield sunderer in around 10 seconds, and they don't even have to suicide.

                        In a teamwork situation, duo the sunderer by calling front and back, each engy throws 3 tank mines at their end (no more towards the center than the last wheel) with a sticky and moves away. Unless you're very unlucky both explosions won't happen simultaneously and you'll destroy it really fast. This has the advantage of allowing your engies to have flak armor instead of mine carrier, too. IMO more than two engy "cooks" is too many in this kitchen.

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                        • #13
                          Nice but make sure you give close range coverage also. Can't stand suicide runs :/



                          FUN FUN

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                          • #14
                            For sunderers, Iv found that equipping my light with C4 - boosting over and skydropping it, then getting back to our own sundy or supply point to resupply gives me enough kill power ontop of my rocket riffle to take them down, I have been known to ram an enemy sundy as well with my tank firing as go, and during the reload cycle hopping out as my heavy to blam their rear.

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