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  • Shadow Priest...Opinions?

    Hey,

    I've talked about it on guild chat, but wouldn't mind some more insight into this. I've played shadow for all but the last 2 levels of my Priest. I'm finding that all though I can heal like mad now, I get pwned a lot more than when I was Shadow in any PvP enviroment. I get the feeling that Shadow specced Priests are totally undesirable despite the fact they can really hand out the punishment on par with some of the other cloth classes.

    Basically I want to be usfull to the guild and have fun at the same time, as I'm turning more to BG and PvP I feel that Shadow would be a lot more rewarding to play. Unless I'm running in instance, Im more or less usless...

    So, what do you all think, am I off base?

    Cheers,
    Shawn (AKA Liseryoth)

  • #2
    Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

    I feel your pain. While I don't have PVP experience worth drawing on, you described what is the typical complaint...disc/holy or holy/disc priests in PVP are not capable of much DPS and are pretty easy (and early) targets of the bad guys.

    My research says that a Disc/Holy Priest will heal roughly 20-25% more per heal spell than will a Shadow Priest...matched spell for spell. That doesn't make Shadow Priests overly "gimped" as healers, but for PVE boss fights or extra adds where healers routinely run out of mana, shadow spec will not be as effective.

    On the other hand, in PVP, a full shadow priest will be much more survivable by virtue of additional shadow tree spells and much more potent damage dealing (e.g. SW:Pain at around 925 damage vs. disc/holy at around 500 for the same spell). It still seems a bit oxymoronic to develop a priest for the purpose of more damage dealing. Making things even more messy, when in shadow form, healing spells are not available. Switching out of shadow form = giving up both 15% armor bonus AND 15% damage bonus.

    Even with Shadow Spec, a priest is not high on the survivability list in PVP.

    My lame solution to all this is to start a new priest with the intention of "grooming" him for full shadow/pvp-orientation. It's a long way up from the bottom, though!!!
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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    • #3
      Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

      Which is exactly the same problem our pallies have, Lis- the question is, do we Holy spec for the sake of our team and sit back and heal, or do we go with retribution in order to deal out the max damage?

      I have found that in a raid, a priest who can heal like no one's business, shield other players, and mind control mobs are exceptionally valuable. Damage is great, but when you're in a group with people who's job it is to shell out the max DPS, someone else needs to keep those poor guys alive.

      I often wish I could have the ability to switch my specs when in PVP vs. raiding as a guild. Retribution is much more fun in PVP, while Holy is much more valuable to the team. I have found a halfway point that seems a reasonable compromise in my talent tree- I have all of my healing aspects maxed out, and used the rest of my points in retribution. I do not have the top spell out of any of my trees for this, but I have what I feel to be the most valuable overall for my team as well as for my enjoyment.

      As for what the guild needs, if we're raiding, we need priests who act "priestly", as opposed to "warlocky". Is there a way on your talents to find some middle ground?

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      • #4
        Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

        I think I'll just tought it out, Im pretty close to what the ideal group configuration should be as far as talent tree goes. I guess I am pretty busy most of the time, maybe I just want the glory of DPS...I just needed to voice my frustration.

        Thanks for putting up with the whining :D

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        • #5
          Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

          I personally am going to stay shadow speced, I have alot of fun with my priest and i love vampiric embrace.. i can still heal with the best of them in groups.. and so what if you run out of mana and have to take a break after long fights... then again im Ive played a mage for a long time and i guess im just used to runing out of mana all the time.. well thats how i see it any how.. have fun with it.

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          • #6
            Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

            Originally posted by luna
            Which is exactly the same problem our pallies have, Lis- the question is, do we Holy spec for the sake of our team and sit back and heal, or do we go with retribution in order to deal out the max damage?

            I would like to say...as a Warrior PvPer...I would much rther have my Priests and Pally's healing me, then see them trying to fight. Although it is PvP (Player vs Player), you still need to play your role. Everyone knows that Priests are expected to heal...and nothing makes me more mad than trying to fend of 3 horde and I have a Priest behind me doing Mind Flay or something instead of keeping my butt alive. 3 seconds later, we are both dead because they were out to try and get that killing blow or something. Lets face it...you are a healer...that's what we need you to do. Alliance has enough problems with PUG's in the BG's with everyone out for their own glory...lets change that and show that we really do know what we are doing. Pally's, Holy Spec'd or not, I have found that your job is to extend the battle as long as possible. Keep the Horde swinging and the alliance kickin. Stretch it out as long as possible...until reinforcements arrive. Once the reinforcements arrinve, unleash everything you got. I have also seen that a warriors job in BG (AB specifically) is to defend the resources. Warrior's, lets face it...although we can dish it out when needed...we can take a lot more than anyone else...leave the winning to the rest of the team...DEFEND OUR RESOURCES!!!!! Rogues...hehe, my most hated opponent, stay out of sight as MUCH as possible...and master stun lock. I have lost many fights to rogues simply due to stun lock. I cant move, I cant fight...its as simple as that. Mages and Lock's...nuke, nuke and more nuke...locks specifically, use your DoT's on anyone and everyone. Keep it stacked on the rogues as they cant vanish if they are DoT'd. Druids...Root and Heal...CC is crucial when defending a resource. Keep them rooted. Hunters...Cuncussice shot and stings on all classes...on the Warriors, Scorpid Sting ( if I recall from my hunter, thats the one that reduces their attack power )

            Thats all I have for now...if you know of anything that could/will/does work better, by all means, throw it out there...anything to improve our game!!!

            Happy Hunting All,

            Zena

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            • #7
              Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

              Hey Zena, you bring up a lot of good points, and I tried BGing again last night and all I did was heal, though we got stomped...I did end up getting a lot of kills, not because I killed anyone, but was healing those that where dealing the death. I was unaware that healers got this reward. So, I'm pretty happy with it and when I'm teamed with people that have a good enough sense to keep me guarded we do pretty well.

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              • #8
                Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                Excellent input, guys. Zena, I tend to agree in terms of playing your role appropriately, whether it's in an instance or in PVP. We all have our specialties, and our entire team tends to do better if we play our roles accordingly.

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                • #9
                  Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                  If only healing was more GLORIOUS!!!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                    LOL lis to those of us on the receiving end it is. I thank Zena for bringing up the very reasons I refuse to do BG anymore. I tried it for about 2 weeks and it left such a sour taste that I have absolutely no desire to try it agian. As far as raiding every time I've joined a raid the DK's outweigh the HK's because someone can't resist a civilian. For those in the guild who enjoy it fantastic.. enjoy yourselves it's all about having fun. As for me please understand I really don't share the current enthusiasm for it.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                      Healing makes someone look good. Then again, there's a warrior on my 'horde' server that can't seem to survive unless he's got his standard 3-5 healers backing him up (I'm not kidding. There's screenshots of him asking why he's not getting more heals/healers).

                      As for shadow vs holy vs disc...

                      In a nutshell, holy is for maximizing heals, shadow for damage and discipline supports everything. Ergo, I'ld balance the build between those based on what your doing. I've seen shadow specc'ed priests do fine in Molten Core, but when MC became the 'only' thing they did, the eventually shifted to Holy instead.

                      NON healers want priests healing, as if often frees non-healers from having to play defensively (ie, break off combat, use defensive abilities/talents, etc.) and just kill stuff. I think that if you're relying on someone else to merely keep you alive, you need to learn how to stay alive :row__523:

                      Anywho, I'm also prolly stick to shadow, but not necessarily for damage output/solo'ing at 60 (priest alt in progress). I'm keeping in mind Silence (21 points) and Improved Fade (17 points) as reasons why, as they significantly affect non MC raids/groups. I sometimes wish Silence was lower than 21 points, but then it'ld become a common talent in priest builds instead of a limited one.
                      So many scripts, so little time!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                        Tasra, your dishonorable kills outnumbered your honor kills? That's insane! Who on earth were you raiding with, so I can go slap some sense into them? I have 1 DK, and I still haven't figured out how it happened. Needless to say, I don't like to do those free-form raids outside of the guild for fear of some smacktard running into a location and sucker punching civilians. I can only imagine just how sour your taste must be after something like that- I'd be highly pissed off.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                          Last time I raided I ended up with 6 DK's I haven't raided since

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                          • #14
                            Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                            I've been thinking more on the whole, play your class as expected, and I don't really buy into that. I've been playing with a pally(Candreynn) for all of our leveling. Now because I was always the healer, Cand specced to do more damage, and aquired gear to increase agility and chances of getting crits hits. Now, Cand is trying to get Valor gear as that is what works for us when we play together, and is often not permitted to roll on valor gear if a Warrior is present.

                            Cand pretty much is set up to heal in emergencies, or to just maintain her own health. This goes outside of traditional thought, but as we play together, there is little need for the overlap.

                            I guess the point is that you can play your class how-ever you want, as long as people understand how you're playing your roll. It's work great for me and Cand, and I think as groups tend to always have a healer pallys and other classes should experiment with their potential and not perscribe to what is "expected".

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                            • #15
                              Re: Shadow Priest...Opinions?

                              Damn Tasra, that would absolutely turn me off to the entire PVP realm- I totally cannot blame you at all for not being interested.

                              On a side note though, if you were to ever consider wanting to do any PVP at some point, you are of course welcome to do so, and invited to join the folks in the guild who really enjoy that facet of the game. It's important to note that what makes one person happy likely will not make another person happy- our flexibility within the guild is what makes us unique, in my opinion. We welcome all different gaming tastes, and try to accomodate all of them as best as possible. It's a HUGE undertaking and takes ALOT of time overall, but in the end allows people to bend and adapt their preferences in the guild in a way that doesn't make them feel like they are forced to enjoy only one aspect of what WOW has to offer.

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