Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

RAID vs. 5 man groups

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • RAID vs. 5 man groups

    I feel fairly competent in a five man group these days. I think I know pretty well where i am needed, how I am needed and understand my strengths and limitations as a player. Partly from just grouping with you guys - partly from reading the posts you have put in these forums (and others) about 5 man groups.

    But i feel lost in raid groups. We get a 15 man group together and i am still playing like i play with a 5 man group. And just think of the way we are heading - MC - I cant imagine.

    Does anyone have any good links of information about how to play best in raid groups? More specifically - what do you do when you are not a warrior, priest or mage. Because, hunters, warlocks, druids and pallies - I think - Have just as much to offer in raids. The drawback is that not everyone knows thier function in a Raid group, or know what you help a groups of 10-40 people best. I know there are a lot of you that have done much more groups, and even your advice would be nice to hear.

  • #2
    Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

    I'm finding that some pallys spam out heals a lot when I have over 50% mana. For me this is a problem since I don't even consider a heal until a player is
    -900 health, and when I cast, if a player is healed when Im casting, my spell get cancelled. This is more of an issue when I dig deap and go for the greater heals (-2000 health), as this is a 4 second cast that heals up to 3000 health. If a player is healed above the deficit it gets cancelled, waisting time, and not really getting the player the heal they needed. I then spam out some flash heals to get them caught up, it really messes me up though.

    I would like to see pallys focusing on damage and watching my back, and kicking up the healing once the priests mana is depleated. In my opinion, only designated healers should be healing unless it hits the fan. So any secondary healers( and everyone else) should be watching their healers mana.

    I guess once everyone plays together more we will know how we all operate. I for do almost 0 damage as I want to be ready in an instant if I need to cast a heal. That's why I just stand there, I'm planning and ordering in my mind who is going to get the heals.

    That may be a little of topic, but I think it's something as a guild we need to work out as we have a lot of pallys.

    PS I love pallys
    CheerZorZ,
    Shawn

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

      I agree with Liz. Some of what you may be doing depends on how you're specced. If you're oriented to do damage, you can serve as an "off tank", helping the MT ("main tank") to do damage. You may have a hard time holding any significant aggro (when compared to a warrior), but that's ok. If needed, you can always back away and start healing.

      A variation on the pally role is to partner with a squishy (mage and/or priest) or two and provide help if they draw aggro. Big heals = big aggro...just like big DPS. This role puts you in a "contingency" tank role to draw aggro away from the casters.

      I confess that I'm NOT a pally, so if I need any correction here, feel free (but be kind!). I'd love to hear what other pallys have to say...Luna? Manny? Crim? Alicity? Ginoldor? Candreynn? (etc., etc.)
      Beep


      Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

        Lis, you bring up a point i never even really thought of. It would be really nice to have two waves of healers? Priests heal - Pallies doing damage for the first part of the fight. Then If you guys said you were out of mana, we can pretty easily disengage ourselves to be back-up healers. Is this the same for druids?

        Personally I like being an off-tank that can heal someone in a jam.


        I have a question: Do priests heal the whole party? Not just the 4 people they are with? Because as a pallie I do look out for the immediate party (those 4 in the group with me) and will try to heal (especially if the main tank is in party with me). Is this reasonable, or should it be a hands-off kinda thing?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

          A lot of it is just a pallies role but everyones role. We may have to start slow with a lot of direction. the direction tapers off once everyone learns what's expected of them in the larger groups. Targest and roles can change in a raid as well. WE've all been on Crebis's UBRS runs with good direction vs a pug or a raid with little direction some may move faster but leave you with the " what the blazes am I doing" feeling. MC is going to be a learning experience for all. I'm sure if you need clarification on what's expected of you personally over "your class" talk to coordinator. MC has a fairly quick repop rate until you take out first boss from what i understand so we'll probably be a lot of rinse repeat. We have a week to plan. study a lot of the write ups on MC talk to ppl who have been there. Hopefully won't be as intimidating for you once you do. And sometimes just asking.. " what do you want ME to do can help you feel better about your role.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

            Lis and Beep,

            as you may know, TG had a very significant deficit in healers for quite some time. As such, many of the Pallies respec'ed to be holy Pallies, thus most of our talent points are planted firmly in our healing spells. We cannot dish out much for damage, and cannot hold aggro to save our arses. As such, we have gotten rather good with on the fly healing, and doing what little damage we can, if only to keep our mana up to be able to heal some more. We are not used to having Priests aboard in such significant numbers and such excellent skill. As such, many of us are still in our "healer" mode, and are spec'ed accordingly. Mind you, we don't heal as well as you guys do, so we tend to heal quicker, so as not to lose the opportunity. Our heals are smaller, and need to go off in time for us to cast a 2nd heal if needed to keep the person from biting the big one. This is why you see us casting so much faster- we have no instant heals, and have one huge heal every.... 2 min? I forget. And by huge, I mean a tiny fraction of what you guys can heal for.

            Clearly, we need to adjust our playing style. Perhaps the role of the pally needs to be keeping the healers healed, and leaving the mages and major DPS classes to the Priests. What do you think of that for a plan?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

              I think it's something that is worthy of a SOP. And to tell you the truth, this is just something that has come up as I try to really conserve mana and heal with 0 overhealing ( I usually only overheal if I crit ). I like the idea of pallys keeping an eye on their Priests. Personally, I try not to heal myself too much until the battle is over as Fade gets most adds away from me. I also think pallys should consider respeccing so they can do more damage and be ready for emergency healing. I think we are stronger as a group if we let classes do what they are specced to do, as for me, I'm specced to heal, I have no talents in any damage dealing. I think it's best if all healing is left to the Priests, I have improved PW: Shield that I use if someone is in trouble, buys me some time to heal multiple people.

              I can for the most part handle healing 7 - 10 people if I'm left alone.

              Kossi - I look at all the parties in the raid and cross party heal all the time.

              Just a note, Candreynn has experimented heavily with his talents and is now really kicking up the DPS and is usually up there, and is still one tough SOB. The reasoning is that we did all our leveling together and he never needed to heal. I think this is something the guild should think about, you now have some healers here ready to take the riens :D

              Cheers

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                I think our guild (or any guild with as many pallies as we have) Needs a nice balance of Ret. and Holy. Because Ive seen 3 pallies hold aggro on the Baron, and Ive seen holy pallies take on the heals for an entire group. I think paladins should not be dissapointed that they are off-tanks and off-healers but embarce what you can get away with and that you can so easily change roles. Both seem equally valueable.


                I think MC will be an interesting test of our group. Has anyone been there? (hehe, other than last night)

                Kossi

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                  RE: the question of how priests heal...

                  I look primarily to take care of the party that I'm in...tank first, casters second...everybody else after that. And YES, I look over all parties & players to heal. When things are fast and furious, even flash healing can be too slow so helping out the other healers makes things better for all.

                  I also am fond of throwing a shield on a caster while I finish healing those who need it is a great way to buy a few seconds of time. FYI, a shield is worth about 1,000 hp.
                  Beep


                  Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                    Just thought I would post my thoughts on the experiment last night. We did a 10 person BRD Emp run. Party was :
                    -1 Priest
                    -3 Pallys
                    -2 Hunters
                    -2 Warriors
                    -1 Mage

                    I requested that at the begining only I heal unless I called for it. I enjoyed this as I was kept busy the entire way through and was able to refine technique. These where lower level mobs and I question how well it could be managed with higher level mobs. It's easy to maintain the mail and plate classes, when cloths start getting hit I have about 2 seconds to respond. I also found your party has to really have faith in you, as some of the heal bars got pretty low. One problem I had was when I had aggro, next time arround I think I would need a dedicated bodyguard that will drop what they are doing and come pull aggro off of me, I think that would be helpful for any cloth classes. This again would be an awsome roll for a pally. Cause once I start getting hit, my effectivness is totally nullified, and if I die, Im not effective at all hehe.
                    I would really like to hear what Luna, Mane and Kossi have to say about this, same with Beep and Tasra, well everyone actually.

                    I do feel that we are all starting to take our playing to the next level and I am enjoying fiercly!

                    Ch33rZoRz
                    Shawn
                    Last edited by Shawner; 11-29-2005, 12:41 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                      Originally posted by Lis
                      Just thought I would post my thoughts on the experiment last night. We did a 10 person BRD Emp run. Party was :
                      -1 Priest
                      -3 Pallys
                      -2 Hunters
                      -2 Warriors
                      -1 Mage

                      I requested that at the begining only I heal unless I called for it. I enjoyed this as I was kept busy the entire way through and was able to refine technique. These where lower level mobs and I question how well it could be managed with higher level mobs. It's easy to maintain the mail and plate classes, when cloths start getting hit I have about 2 seconds to respond. I also found your party has to really have faith in you, as some of the heal bars got pretty low. One problem I had was when I had aggro, next time arround I think I would need a dedicated bodyguard that will drop what they are doing and come pull aggro off of me, I think that would be helpful for any cloth classes. This again would be an awsome roll for a pally. Cause once I start getting hit, my effectivness is totally nullified, and if I die, Im not effective at all hehe.
                      I would really like to hear what Luna, Mane and Kossi have to say about this, same with Beep and Tasra, well everyone actually.

                      I do feel that we are all starting to take our playing to the next level and I am enjoying fiercly!

                      Ch33rZoRz
                      Shawn
                      I thought the raid went quite well. As the "junior" warrior, I was probably near the top of your heal list...(lol...my armor is about half what Tasra's is:row__691: )

                      When tanking, I don't/can't focus on my health...too many other things to watch, so healing when/as needed is a matter of trusting the healer(s) to do their job. Our guild priests are quite good at it, IMHO, so it's not a source of great concern for me.

                      I like the idea of allowing/encouraging pallys to spec towards off-tank/cloth protector/back-up healer roles.
                      Beep


                      Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                        LOL Beep we'll get your armor up there I keep a set for damage ( part valor/ part general goodies) and tanking gear High armor/ high stamina although I probably need to get the stam up there a bit higher. I saw you pick up the emporer when I went down you did a great job. The only time I even looked at my health was when I saw lise go down and realized I had no potions on me. 1 boss 4 mobs.. wasn't happening... close... but left to others to finish.

                        Lise as tank I really don't expect to remain standing. LOL But I have noticed you do a fantastic job of keeping me up and fighting. I looked at my health once last night . Took the trust your healer to the line LOL. I have to tell ya one nose dive and then only because a premature Boss pull... Very Nice.

                        I need to check see If I have any pockets big enuf to stuff lise into so I can drag him around to keep me alive.. Wait a min I'm a gnome.....pockets definately not big enuf........ Have to think of a plan B

                        Tas

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                          Actually this whole subject of "whats your role in a raid" has concerned me as well. It has specifically concerned me with my hunter. I have felt an uverwhelming sense of uselessness and therefore uninterest in my hunter lately.

                          As far as pallys goes I agree wholeheartedly with Lis. Pallys really need to let the priest do thier job unless the priest is either overwhelmed or out of mana. As wasting a heal is a waste of mana and we dont want priests doing that!

                          As for everyone else who knows? My hunter is having identity issues as who needs 2 pullers? (Esp. when Crebis is so damn good at it). My lock isnt big enough but already I dont know the best way to help other than basic utility spells. (My DPS is close to a mages but my AOES dont hold a candle). Im really scared of just turning into a Soulstone vendor/Raid taxi.

                          And I dont wanna reroll cuz i think we have enough of everything cept maybe druids but I played one to 40 and it aint my thing

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                            I have to say I'm not surprised at the number of people saying that as we get closer to the bigger raids. I play the gnome.. to tell you honestly.. targeting from a gnome's view really stinks half the time I'm not sure i'm really hitting anything since everyone else is in the way. The other half feel like I"m chasing something someone else blew the blazes outa to keep it from killing them.

                            Raids are crazy I'll be the first to say it. They are also intimidating when your looking at two HUGE 62 leets and know they come as a pair. Hunters do more than pull.. Pallies do more than heal. Tanks we just piss things off and get beat on repeatedly. Hopefully being able to keep them angrier at us that the squishies behind us. Pallies, Druids, and hunters are extremely valuble in ANY instance Pallies are great offtanks druids are so versitile its amazing and hunters can do a steady amount of ranged damage as well as using a pet to keep a mob at bay for that short time it takes the tank or plate wearer to get agro back.

                            We have awsome players I've ran steady groups thru dire maul cahnging out builds and playing with different styles. You ALL have a fantastic ability to adapt to your surroundings and to what's asked of you. Toning it down or stepping it up as needed. I know I've asked different things of different players and they have ALWAYS come thru.

                            DOn't sell yourselves or your toon short. The more we get used to our role in bigger instances the better at them we will be.. but until we try and practice at it we don't know what areas we need to work on. Maybe we want to start up a thread in what we want to see in raids .. what sort of direction.. that sort of thing.

                            I think we've got a great group here and I for one can't wait for the field trip to the core. Those giants called me names last time I was there.. I wanna make em pay for it

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: RAID vs. 5 man groups

                              I have to say I'm not surprised at the number of people saying that as we get closer to the bigger raids. I play the gnome.. to tell you honestly.. targeting from a gnome's view really stinks half the time I'm not sure i'm really hitting anything since everyone else is in the way. The other half feel like I"m chasing something someone else blew the blazes outa to keep it from killing them.

                              Raids are crazy I'll be the first to say it. They are also intimidating when your looking at two HUGE 62 leets and know they come as a pair. Hunters do more than pull.. Pallies do more than heal. Tanks we just piss things off and get beat on repeatedly. Hopefully being able to keep them angrier at us that the squishies behind us. Pallies, Druids, and hunters are extremely valuble in ANY instance Pallies are great offtanks druids are so versitile its amazing and hunters can do a steady amount of ranged damage as well as using a pet to keep a mob at bay for that short time it takes the tank or plate wearer to get agro back.

                              We have awsome players I've ran steady groups thru dire maul cahnging out builds and playing with different styles. You ALL have a fantastic ability to adapt to your surroundings and to what's asked of you. Toning it down or stepping it up as needed. I know I've asked different things of different players and they have ALWAYS come thru.

                              DOn't sell yourselves or your toon short. The more we get used to our role in bigger instances the better at them we will be.. but until we try and practice at it we don't know what areas we need to work on. Maybe we want to start up a thread in what we want to see in raids .. what sort of direction.. that sort of thing.

                              I think we've got a great group here and I for one can't wait for the field trip to the core. Those giants called me names last time I was there.. I wanna make em pay for it

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X