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Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

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  • Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

    While I will defer to some of my more experienced level 60 peers, I have been observing that on many of our guild raids, we donít deal with mobs in a way that is the most effective. Frankly, in most raids, you donít NEED to do much more than minimal crowd control and zerg everything elseÖat least until you get to the BIG BOSS. This has made us all sloppy.

    I have a heightened awareness of aggro management because of playing a warrior. The whole purpose of a warrior as main tank is to gain aggro, hold aggro and have the survivability to stay vertical while the rest of the party dpsís and heals. Gaining aggro on multiple mobs (e.g. Strat) is even trickier and requires that the entire party understand and cooperate to keep things working. A few of us 5-manned Strat Scarlet side this week and promptly wiped on the first two mobs because of our poor understanding of the difference between our usual raid tactics and good small group tactics.

    Definitions
    :

    Main tank: The reason why you need a main tank for a dungeon is that when fighting single targets (bosses), there is no tactic a damage-dealer can use to reduce the amount of aggro he produces (except to stop attacking). You simply need someone who can out-aggro anyone, with high enough armor to make healing effective. Also, if a healer is being mobbed, and is forced to start healing himself, it can create an aggro lock that is almost impossible for anyone to break.

    Off-tank: An off-tank is a player that can safely and effectively tank one enemy. Depending on the situation and composition of your group, this may apply to anything from warrior to paladins to rogues or range-spec hunters. Basically, if you are fighting more units than the main tank can handle (damage- or aggro-wise), an off-tank needs to step in. As stated in the tips and tricks below, try to go for a target that isn't being attacked, it will be much easier for you to pull, and you will not need to attack it continuously to keep it locked on you.

    How To Play Well Together


    To begin with, it seems that the character that initially gets the attention of a mob gets a bit of a bonus to his or her threat levels. Thus, itís going to be important to let warriors do the pulling. "Pulling" is a term that refers to gaining the attention of mobs in the hope that they can be pulled back to a safe area, thus letting you pound on them without having to worry about them escaping and drawing the attention of any other nearby enemies. This is usually accomplished via a gun or other ranged weapon, which will let you grab the attention of an enemy at a distance without having to get close enough to risk attracting anything else.

    Of course, you wonít always be able to get a single enemy at a time. Most of the lower-level instanced dungeons will have good spacing on the foes, but when you start hitting the dungeons for players at level 40 or above, youíll find yourself running into many groups of enemies that cannot be separated, meaning that youíll have to face two or three elite foes simultaneously. This is where crowd control comes in handy. If you have a class with some sort of crowd control ability (meaning an ability that can temporarily remove a foe from battle, like the mageís Polymorph or rogueís Sap abilities), then you can cut the number of foes by a bit and let your party concentrate on the others until the crowd control runs out.

    Whether you have one enemy or many, itís important to know what precisely causes threat. The most obvious threat-builder is damage; if you hit an enemy with a spell or weapon, youíre going to generate aggro, making it likely to attack you. The more damage you do, the more aggro you build up. This is why itís important to use the /assist command to be sure that youíre targeting the enemy that your warrior is currently fighting; if your warrior is both damaging the enemy with weapons and using hisTaunt ability consistently, then he should be able to hold the monsterís attention no matter how much damage youíre dealing. Some abilities generate more aggro than others. Mages can generally out-DPS all of us, but at the risk of generating more aggro than anyone else. Some hunters produce so many crits that they become the big aggro generator. Smart play says: MANAGE YOUR AGGRO GENERATION to let the MT keep aggro and the mobs away from everyone else.

    Also note that itís difficult for a warrior to hold aggro on multiple enemies at a time. If he has two or more enemies attacking but is only able to attack/Taunt one of them, then the other will likely slide off and attack the first party member that deals damage to it. Thus, you likely donít want to go around spamming area-of-effect damage spells unless youíre sure that you can deal with one or more of the foes if they wind up whacking on you.

    One of the less obvious sources of aggro, though, is healing. Mobs hate it when someone gets healed, and theyíre likely to go straight for the healer if they havenít already been attacked. Even if theyíre currently being Taunted and attacked by a warrior, mobs can still be jolted loose by powerful healing spells, such as the priestís Greater Heal. For this reason, most healing classes prefer to go for weaker healing spells that can be cast quickly and more often, such as Lesser Heal or Flash Heal; these will give you less aggro with only slightly less efficiency, while still leaving you with the option of a big heal in an emergency. Regeneration spells like Renew or Rejuvenation probably earn the least aggro of all, since they spread their healing effects over a long period of time.

    Typical Desired Sequence of Events:

    Encounter mob. Before engaging, the Leader assigns targets and crowd control roles (sheep, sap, shackle, etc.). Leader specifies where the mobs will be fought.

    MT pull with charge or ranged weapon (unless leader designates hunter pull, or other character to pull). Sap, if being used, will precede the warrior pull. Warrior maneuvers mob to desired engagement area.

    MT will apply taunt, sunder armor, thunderclap, shield block, sweeping strikes or other aggro-generating actions to establish and hold aggro. The MT needs a bit of time to get aggro firmly established. This should take 3-10 seconds for most mobs. DO NOT ATTACK UNTIL MT OR LEADER SAYS "GO"!!!! While this is going on, the sheep/shackle spells are cast. It is critically important that ONLY the MTís target should be attacked. Unless you can handle your target(s) alone, do not aggro them with spells or attacks. This is especially so for AOE spells. NOTE: If the MT was the one who pulled AND if no one else has attacked, ALL THE MOBS WILL BE FOCUSED ON THE MAIN TANK! This is what you want to happen. In contrast, if you pull with a mage pyroblast or other spell, the aggro is directed to the caster and everyone scrambles to find a target to help. Ugly!

    Variation: The MTsolos on the big elite while the Off Tank (OT) takes on another target. All other damage dealers assist the OT. Healers keep both tanks up. OT target goes down and all switch to MT target. Nuke until dead. This scheme is commonly used (with some modification) on instance bosses.

    Generally good advice:

    Spread out a little, if you stand in a pile the MT can't see who's being attacked.

    Don't overnuke! If you are being attacked, switch target or stop attacking. (to casters) If you're being attacked, run towards the tank. If you are close, the MT can get the mob off you easier.

    When you find mobs let the tanks TANK, do not immediately launch a fireball or shadow bolt into the mobs. Let the tanks grab aggro and have at least 5 seconds to build aggro before you start with the fireworks

    When you draw aggro, RUN TOWARD THE TANK! You probably canít get away from the mob very easily but you probably CAN get close to the tank, and you DONíT want to get away from the tank. Avoid the parade of squishy<---mob<---tank.

    Good DPS classes donít just unload, they manage their hate by slowing down a little. Thatís time to use your wands, unload 2 to 4 mid-sized nukes and then start using your wand.

    Even if youíre not the tank, it's your job to protect the rezzers. If a priest is getting hit, just unload with everything on the mob that is hitting the priest.

    /assist Learn how to use it, learn to love it and make a macro out of it.

    Keep an eye out for runners.

    Last Word:

    Let the leaders lead. The leader should know and understand this tactical approach and others that may be more suited for a particular encounter. My post is to put forward a standard tactical approach that can be regularly implemented. If you want to see what REALLY works, set up a 5 man baron, scarlet or scholo run.
    Last edited by beep; 12-09-2005, 12:59 PM.
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

  • #2
    Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

    Look, mare, I can't give you more rep. Stop posting!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

      Originally posted by TG_Mateo
      Look, mare, I can't give you more rep. Stop posting!
      Huh???:row__632:
      Beep


      Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

        Once again Beep I agree with your comments. I think once you get to some of the high level instances, the higher DPS classes really need to stop doing as much damage as they possible can, or moderate the damage so that their highest damage spells are the final blow.

        I also think the habbit of cloth classes pulling needs to be totally eliminated. I would love to see it that the MT and off tanks are the ones that pull and maintain aggro. It may take a little longer to kill mobs, but I'm sure it will lead to a lot less dying at the higher level instances if we can get this under control.

        I think I want to work on this in small groups and prove the theory, which I feel is sound. It's much more predicatable to maintain 2 or 3 players health as apposed to 6 - 10 ( Though sometimes that's fun as well )

        Either way, at lvl 60 instance running is a group effort and players should consider shedding their solo/pvp habbits when running these high level instances.

        Cheers

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        • #5
          Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

          Nice post - that is one of those things i was looking for when i started that thread about raid dynamics.


          But - really, it's all something we should know from the good 'ol 5 man groups. It's just people forget or get lazy about in 10-20 man groups.

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          • #6
            Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

            Originally posted by beep
            Huh???:row__632:
            I meant to type "mate". Opps.

            This was the second time today that I wanted to +rep you, and couldn't. :row__687:

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

              I'm glad you posted this, ... It's good to know a tactical standpoint even at as low a level as I am. WHEN I get to 60 I want to be a smart mage that protect's her squishiness by letting other people get hit. I also don't want to be an annoying group member that keeps needing to be ress'ed every 2 seconds.


              Keep the strategy coming, I need to feed my tiny little lvl 27 brain!

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              • #8
                Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

                Beep you are once again right...When I play Candrice and go into a big instance (scholo, strat or brs) there have been alot of times where I couldnt get aggro because of the zerging and there is no need in trying to up till the bosses, thats where you defintly need to get the aggro and tthats when they will let you.. With Ricca I have learned to try to let the warrior gain aggro but sometimes it is hard to do..Alot of people try to beat the other in DPS so they zerg to get what damage they can in..To me being the highest dps person on the meter doesnt make a diffrence to me all I want to do is go into the instance sap do my job and get the mobs killed as fast as possible..I am not an assain/combat rogue so im not gonna get no 1 on the meter anyway so why steal aggro to try to do so...
                Candrice 63 Warrior
                Ricca 70 Rogue
                Machelle 70 Mage
                Enya 74 Druid

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mob Violence for Fun and Profit

                  I've edited my original post slightly and reposted into the Tactics Forum. Among the new things added is a neat "trick"...
                  If you left click on a party member (e.g. the Main Tank), then hit "F", you will automatically select the MT's target. The same goes for any other party member. (If for some reason, you've changed your key binding for "F", look in the Targeting functions under keybinding to set up a new key binding.)
                  Beep


                  Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

                  Comment

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