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Guild Expansion

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  • Guild Expansion

    Just want to throw this out there. I have a few more old friends, who have been building their characters up to start endgame content. I'm starting to hear that we are "Filled up" with this class, and "are not inviting" that class, with a few EXCEPTIONS. I think this is the wrong way to go.

    I have been on at all times during the week, and on the weekend, as I've been laid off and have lots of time. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get a group going for minor instances. If we keep our guild nerfed to a single 20-man raid, we will forever have this problem. Please listen to these suggestions for expansion.

    If we fill a 20-man raid on Saturday night, and we have enough people on, maybe another instance could run, and people could get their set peices. Even if we give priority to people who were forced to "on deck" status for the next run. If we expand we might be able to run more than one event a night - one big, one smaller. This will help us eventually make it to do a 40-man ALL TG run.

    Having more people in the guild will not hurt us. Being short-sighted and allowing people to covet their space in ZG or MC will hurt the guild. People are frustrated every day by the need to PUG instances. More People means more instances for everybody, and less PUGs. Also means more alts for helping lower people have someone to run instances with.

    Please give this some consideration. I know I'm just a recruit, but I see the potential for a great end-game guild here, where all of us could always have somebody to work with, even the Lowbies coming up.

    I'm just trying to get a feel for where this guild is going. Please post replys to get a feel for where everybody stands on this. Should we stay where we are, or should we expand to let more people from all classes in?
    Anahlahna and Friends

  • #2
    Re: Guild Expansion

    The discussion on class caps is an on going one, and a difficult one. We are trying to prepare the guild to have the class balance needed to run MC on our own. So, we're looking at our classes, and the number of people we would want of that class in a raid, then adding more to it, since no one can be here for EVERY raid, no matter how hard we try. The numbers we are looking for are for 40 man raids though, not 20. You're right- if we capped it off to outfit only 20 man raids, we'd never see MC ourselves.

    To give you an idea of what we're talking about, the guild currently has 9 truly active Paladins. We have "room" for one more, but after that we will have more than we could ever need to fill a 40-man. I mean, who brings 10 pallies anywhere? The thought was 5-6 of them on a 40 man raid is about right, and we upped it to 10 for a nice easy round number that gives us plenty of breathing room. The caps we are thinking about are liberal, numerically. If you hear people saying we aren't taking in anymore of X, it's because we have far too many already to satify people. We don't want to always have raids that people can't attend because we have too many of something. Let me put together this week's class numbers, and I will get back to you. This way we'll all be on the same page when talking about class limits.



    • #3
      Re: Guild Expansion

      Even capping on a 40-man raid outlook, there's nothing that says we can't have an AQ40 running at the same time as an MC run. Why cap it at all? It seems like it's too short-sighted.
      Anahlahna and Friends


      • #4
        Re: Guild Expansion


        No end-game guild runs MC simultaneously. What we have to do is keep a certain max number of classes or that wouldn’t be fair to see an "Indy 500 pally sign up race" every time we plan to do ZG/MC/AQ/Ony etc...
        We are not focusing on 20 man instance raids; this is what we’ve been doing - temporarily - ´till we fill up the last spot for the classes we are looking for.

        All successful end-guilds such as Oath and Imminent have only 56-60 members.

        Since we are a casual end-game guild, we are working on something more than 60 active players since we don’t have mandatory raids or schedule here.

        I’ve heard of guilds with 300 members raiding major-end games instances at the same time, but to get that numbers fast we will need to loose focus on our most precious “commodity”: human being quality.

        This guild has a tremendous potential because we have quality and not quantity.

        IMO, we can’t loose our focus on 40 man instances changing it to two consecutives 40 man instances... this wouldn’t be impossible to organize properly, could you imagine 80 people attempting a MC raid on a week day or 4 ZG raids at the same time 4 days a week?

        I think we should better concentrate on our priorities and keep the word organization in mind.

        Once crossed the end-game guild door, the casual guild is far behind and we can’t look backward. Our friends will always be welcome to fill our spots and apply for TG when we have determined class demand.


        • #5
          Re: Guild Expansion

          Also, it's not like we are forever close to a class. It is just unfair to those in a class that is already heavily populated within this guild to have more of their class come in. We need to focus on those classes that are lower in population and when we get a couple of them, then we can open it back up to the over-populated. I see no problem runnning right now a 20 man and a 10 man on the same night...soon a 20 and a 20...then a 40 and a 10...but right now we need certain classes more than others and it's unfair to overstock one this moment anyway.


          • #6
            Re: Guild Expansion

            That makes sense Crebis. You're doing a great job!


            • #7
              Re: Guild Expansion

              I'll throw my own 2 cents worth into this.

              In the past, TG has been a guild with "open" enrollment...any level, any class, sign up...but with a 30 day recruit evaluation period during which we would focus on "fit"/compatibility. We described ourselves as a "big tent", welcoming anyone.

              As we have grown and matured (characters leveling up), we are now a self-declared "casual end-game raiding" guild. Translation: focused on end-game, but without mandatory raid attendance and other restrictive requirements. With that new declaration, we have several things in front of us:
              1. Recruiting to provide the body count to mount our own 40 man raids.
              2. Developing raid leadership.
              3. Determining class needs and class limits.
              4. Putting in a fair and equitable loot distribution system
              5. Improving our web identity/presence
              6. Improving our raid signup procedures.

              We're making progress on all fronts, although you haven't seen specifics on everything yet. The new "look" on the forums and webpage are great (TY, Apo!). The new raid signup scheme is virtually done. We have a nifty on-line guild roster. We are growing in size. We are making good progress in our end-game raids. We have a very active raid schedule. Our raid leaders (Crebis, Manny and now Arkamis...with others taking on bigger roles) are doing a great job. We are reviewing at the officer level a proposed DKP system for handling loot distribution.

              There's a lot going on both in front of and behind the curtain. Your officers are actively writing/investigating/discussing these and other parts of making our guild the place to be on Thunderhorn. We are committed to keeping the best of the past with the sense of community and mutual respect that have been the hallmarks of TG's history. We will have to make changes, though, to address the demands of our success and growth.

     touch more specifically on the question of class limits.
              1. We owe something to our existing members in terms of trying to insure that everyone who wants to can participate in end-game content.
              2. We are looking at the practices of other successful guilds to gain some insight as to what limits work for them.
              3. Setting class limits is as much "art" as "science", since individuals are not always available to raid, may be focused on PVP rather than PVE, etc. Some players have multiple level 60 characters...all ready for end-game.
              4. We are "in-between" to readily fill 20 man raids, but not yet able to muster 40 man on our own. This implies that as we add members, the 20 man raids will oversubscribe quickly, leaving some unable to participate when they are available to go. We are looking at ways to deal with that...with more raids, joint raids, and other solutions. In spite of this, at the moment, we still have a last-minute scramble to fill out 20 man raids, no matter who has signed up. No shows, RL crises, etc. all seem to be a part of the process.

              Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)


              • #8
                Re: Guild Expansion


                I'm not part of the endgame participation (yet) so I find it hard to take any sort of position either way: on the one hand, from a Guild Standpoint, it seems wrong somehow to be turning good players away if they want to be part of our fun, on the other, there are serious practical issues with having too many players of one class wanting to raid.

                First, as noted, we have alot of "incumbents" like Luna, that play every night, but that is their sole toon. That means whatever slots for Paladins are available, she's getting one, assuming she wants in on that raid. Frankly, if one of our core mains, like Luna or Beep, are not in their respective slots, then that is a serious waste of Guild assets.

                Second, we also have alot of players that only play WoW. For me, it's not an issue. I play....well just about everything, even picked up 2 titles over the weekend that aren't even supported here. I say that because if I didn't get into a raid, no harm no foul, off to Oblivion, or something.

                Most players in the Guild, however, are not that flexible. WoW is the only game they play. They may have multiple toons, but not being in a Raid or Instance kills them, since this is what they do. Sure, they can go out and farm, play an alt, or something, but they are here for that raid slot, and they should get it.

                Maybe we can find a way to accomodate all, though. I don't think that running two instances are possible, but what if we have a "Second Squad" or something? Would your buddies be into something like that?




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