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  • PvP: what's the deal?

    So, I tried PvP BGs for the first time this weekend just to see what I was missing.

    There is lots of potential for fun there, no doubt. But at the risk of sounding like Seinfeld: "What's the deal with PvP?"

    The horde rocks and works together well as a team. The Alliance: i don't even know where to start! Out of about 10 trips to WSG, only 1 group worked together as a team...and then it was tenuously held together at best. The rest of the trips...no talking, no coordinating, no plan, healers DPSing, lots of solo artist. To top that off, the few people that do talk are shouting derision and profanity as if that alone is going to fix the underlying issue.

    Ack! What a nightmare! The horde must laugh all the way through it.

    One more vent: (sry for the vent, incidentally...but I'm fishing for direction, purpose and motivation ;) )...horde rogues camping the WSG graveyard. I spent half of one match just trying to get out of the GY...I'd res, he'd ambush me immediately, and I'd be full locked down before you could count to 3. Nice! Lots of fun, that is. lol.

    Okay...I feel better now.

  • #2
    Re: PvP: what's the deal?

    1) Horde have all the advantages in PvP with both design and class. Shamans > Paladins for the most part because of their insane burst damage, powerful fast heal, and snares. The horde have a distinct advantage in map design in WSG (tunnels and choke points ideal for totem use), AB (horde spawn closer to blacksmith and lumberyard is more tactically defendable than mines), and AV (horde frostwolf chokepoint tower demounts people while the stormpike bridge does not. Both frostwolf towers have line of fire at each other and people leaving chokepoint in main base while stormpike bunkers are spread far far apart so they can be easily soloed. North stormpike base bunker can be jumped into from the mountain and there is an easily accessable upper path to stormpike graveyard from Stonehearth GY. Chokepoint for frostwolf is between towers and base city allowing mobs to attack people coming and going, stormpike chokepoint is before city letting horde gather and rush without being hindered)

    2) The que system for battlegrounds SUCK. A BG starts the moment at least the minimum number of people are qued. If the alliance has 3 people solo qued and a premade 10 man for WSG while horde has a 10 man premade and 3 people qued then the BG will start with 3 alliance (10 man, while in que, cannot enter due to size) vs 10 man premade horde (3 individual horde will not face off against 10 man alliance because only 3 in que). Conclusion is forgone. If you enter into a PUG vs PUG match that starts 3 alliance and 4 horde then the match will end with a horde win unless the alliance can cap/gather everything within 5 minutes due to the alliance starting undermanned regardless of the score.

    3) There are some good alliance teams, but they're generally all premade. The reason why you will almost always lose in BGs to the horde is because you will almost always face a premade. If the horde face an alliance premade, they may lose. If the horde face an alliance pug, they will probably win.

    4) The honor system favors solo activity in a PUG. You get honor for each kill depending on rank and divided by the number of people who participated in the kill. If you are alone and ungrouped, you will get all the credit. If you are ungroupped and working with someone, the honor will be divided based on the percent of damage you do to their health. If you are groupped and within range of a group member you will split with the group member regardless of if they helped or not.

    That means if you're running in a PUG you will get more honor fighting solo due to not having to split with group members and facing your inevitable death. If you're not pugging, you're probably going to win anyways so the point is moot.

    The honor system also discourages doing BGs in a PUG because you will almost always face a premade. If you keep going up against the same 10-15 people then you will quickly hit the "4 kill rule" (first kill is 100% honor, second kill is 75%, third kill is 50%, fourth kill is 25%, fifth and higher is 0%) which makes continued running of a BG pointless. If you're facing a premade you will lose, if you lose you get no honor for winning, if you face the same premade twice in a row you get no honor for killing them either (assuming 1-2 kills per face off). Ergo, you're just fodder for the enemy to make bonus honor off wins and rep gains.
    My sanity is not in question...
    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PvP: what's the deal?

      Thanks, Tarenth! That really inspires me to leave work early and jump back into a que,.. not! lol.

      As confused and somewhat frustrating as it is...it's still new to me and a little fun.

      Your point about premades is key. The 2 minutes or so you get before kickoff is little time for strangers to throw together a plan.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PvP: what's the deal?

        That, and Premades rarely consist of:

        -Noobs
        -Insane Class balance (10 Warriors FTW)
        -Unprepared people
        -People that play solo

        I was never able to join premades, which made it much slower. Alterac Valley is alot of fun when it's drawn out. I can't stand the 45 minute games. There is alot more to the BG than immediately meets the eye.
        RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

        Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

        I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PvP: what's the deal?

          Speaking of which, I'd love to get guild WSG premades going, what do you guys think? I PvP as often as I can, and I'd like to start winning, among guildies at that.

          Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
          BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
          TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PvP: what's the deal?

            Ugh. You ever go up against a team of 10 warriors or 10 mages in a WSG PUG? Its horrible.

            "Need help with the flag!"
            "Hey you try slugging through 7 people dressed in plate!"
            "Hurry it up, these guys won't get off me"
            "Alright, head towards..."
            "F&[email protected] here they come again. Plate zerg FTL. Give us another few minutes"
            Horde flag has been returned


            "Charge!"
            10 mages hit Presence of Mind
            10 mages hit a Pyroblast
            10 mages hit fireblast
            10 alliance sit in Graveyard
            "WTF was that?"
            My sanity is not in question...
            It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


            Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PvP: what's the deal?

              Druid + Pally in WSG is the best.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                priest and warlock in AV is the best
                powered by Windows 7

                . . . .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                  Went in to the 40-49 group in WSG last night with my main. Overall it was a much better experience. Certainly a more mature crowd.

                  We actually won a round, a first for me of course, when we out numbered the Horde by 3.

                  I had never used CTRA before so I had some issues with the learning curve. I was the only one healing for some reason so I had a lot of work to do, which made me a huge target.

                  It's official, the war is on with the Horde. I'm out for their collective heads! lol.

                  I'm interested in premade but not big 'nuff to hang out with the elders of our guild yet.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                    Yeah I really enjoy PvP on my druid, on an average day i get the flag 3 times in about 6 minutes and win the round. PvP on my warrior is a different story entirely.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                      heheh. healing in PvP...

                      I didn't win a single BG round until i was level 60. (mind you, after the first 5 crushing losses around 40, i quit for a while) here are the things I've learned about PvP.

                      Paladins are good for one thing. Getting the flag and running.
                      This is because...
                      If you're playing the paladin, no other paladin is smart enough to the flag holder healed, or moving with Blessing of Freedom, you might as well do it yourself.
                      Other paladins on the field should be considered Warriors with heals... that they only ever use on themselves.

                      -Priests forget how to heal in BG's... but they sure know where the psychic scream button is. ("Whooo, look at those hoardies run!" "NO! I'm to busy trying to get this flag to the base with this tauren smacking me around... healplz!")
                      - Druids seem to think that they can confuse the enemy by shapeshifting as often as they can. ('I'm a bear! I'm a cat! I'm a Bear!') honestly, just choose a shape, and stick with it.
                      -no, wait. better yet, choose the Nelf shape. HEALPLZ!
                      - Warriors are the only people you can rely on to do their jobs in PvP. they hit things. Thank you warriors... have a cookie.
                      - Mages suck. (NO! Don't Freeze them to the ground in a pretty circle around me while i'm Rooted...GYARGH!)
                      - Rogues... alright. i can't blame rogues for being cheap. If i could sneak up on people and stab them in the back and keep them stun locked, I would.
                      - Hunters... Yes. It's entirely fair that you can take a fair bit of damage, but are never close enough to hit, because you sicced your pet on me from a mile away. I don't WANT to kill your pet. Not only do i get any honour... by the time it's dead, you've told all your friends where i am. Hax.
                      - Shamans are cocky bastards.. 'hur. I will waste all my mana Purging your Blessings and aura's Mr.Paladin'... But they are also stupid. 'Heh. right, now that oyu have no mana to frost schock me with, I will Rebless myself with a fraction of my Mana, and now beat you into a puddle of shaman goo.'
                      - Warlocks. Yeah. Fear.. Fear... Fear... Fear... Fear... Fear... Fear... GAH! Succubus.. Charmed.

                      I'm not into BG's unless i'm in a premade. :P
                      _________________



                      I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                        I always kill the Hunters Pets just to tick them off for being dirty hunters, make them feed them tons of food to make the pet happy again. Seriously, I'd hate my owner if I was sent in to do all the dirty work and to keep getting stabbed or burned when the hunter gets nothing done to him.
                        RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

                        Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

                        I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                          That's a great post, Manny. ;)

                          I keep thinking I should get into PvP (especially since I was just 29 for a long time, perfect spot to do some) but......... it's just not very compelling. I don't see a reason to do it. Maybe if the rewards were better.

                          Plus there's the knowledge that in order to be tops, you just need time. Lots and lots of time. As in, divorced, unemployed loser* lots of time. I guess I'm just not interested in that :P

                          * Yes, I have at least 2 sources to back that up.

                          Me: |

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                            It takes ALOT of time. The rewards in the end are really very nice though, at rank 11 (I think) you can buy an epic mount for real cheap. Some of the best equipment in the game are from the upper PVP ranks, but also, those are near unattainable unless you have nothing better to do at all than PVP... and not just PVP, but PVP and WIN PVPing.
                            RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

                            Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

                            I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PvP: what's the deal?

                              The rewards are VERY nice and getting better with the improved PvP sets introducted in 1.11. However, the honor and contribution points you get from PvP are penalized by 50% under level 50. This is intentional because they don't want a level 29 Grand Marshall in epic gear beating the crap out of everything.

                              Actually, that's a VERY good strategy and I do it all the time as well. If you target the hunter's pet there's a good chance you'll cripple the hunter since most of the heavy PvP hunters are either BM (the majority) or Survival (the tricks). A BM hunter without their pet is a gimp hunter. A survival hunter without their pet has a moderate penalty to their damage, but is still a danger. A marksman hunter without their pet will STILL 2/3 shot you and walk away laughing.

                              Also, to the hunters, if you die you rez at the GY with your pet getting 100 happiness per second for 5 seconds. That'll take you from unhappy to full. Don't bother feeding your pet, just bring it out and send it into battle again...or not depending on your play style.


                              People rarely heal because, to the minds of the stupid, healing just gives the enemy that much longer to kill you. And to some extent, it is true that a good offense is a good defense. Of course, if you DO start healing you'll gather a nice following of people around you because they know you'll keep them alive. When I was doing PvP on my priest when BGs first came out (500 rep per win! Yay!) I would always heal since I was holy/disc. At one point I had 3 rogues ALWAYS with me in stealth. Nothing more satisfying than to get attacked by 5 horde in that situation. Gank, Gank, Fear, Gank, Heal, Gank, Gank, Fear. :D
                              My sanity is not in question...
                              It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                              Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



                              Comment

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