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  • Need some help here....

    Ok guys... I've pretty much grinded my way up to 58 alone, except for the time many months ago where some of the guild was not 60 yet (the days of phantom, mateo, adrielle, armon, and others).

    I've come to the point where most of my quest log is instanced dungeons like BRD, scholo, and strat.

    My problem is simply I cant find anyone reliable to play with. My time is valuable to me and I've lost countless hours to ridiculous PUGs.

    I realize TG is now basically an "end-game" guild, but I think it's VERY important to make sure the lower lvl toons whether alts or mains (main in my case) get lvled and taken care of. When lvl 60 comes around this pays back dividends.

    I'm not asking for a full group of TG to help out, but 1 person here and there would be great. I KNOW not everyone is Raiding. As well, Raids arent going on all the time. What I DO know is many people seem really obsessed with farming away or chasing an elusive piece of loot when they could also be helping someone out. Yes, the game in a way "starts" at lvl 60, but in reality overall the time-crunch is not there like it is with a lowbie.

    I've seen people jump to help certain people. Others ignored. Many times for unimportant things, others important. Many times seniority rules out and officers are given more attention. All this is understandable, but doesnt mean it's always right. I personally wished I could help a few people, but have been STUCK myself largely in a group I shouldnt have been with in the 1st place.

    To give an example, I'm working hard to get to 60 yes. I also need to get attuned. We do Ony and MC all the time. Yet when I ask for help on these things I get a blank chat screen. When finding out what certain people are doing, they're farming scourge, playin in the battlegrounds, or asking for help themselves with a dungeon where 1 piece of loot drops every 1000 kills. With a dedicated guild support party, one member should be able to do the ENTIRE Ony chain in one evening... including MC attunement. For me?? I've only gotten the MC attunement and have already been to BRD about 5 times. I should be lvl 59 right now, but i'm stuck at 57.

    Anyways, this turned into a bit of a rant. Didnt want it to be. I just wanted to get a little more visible so people can give me a leg up here. I DONT want to have to game with strangers - that's not why I'm here. It's one thing to grind away alone... but to be stuck with retards in a 5-10 man dungeon is just plain TORTURE. So, if you're headin for dungeons that lvl 55-60's need, just speak up and get one of em to tag along (myself included). So it takes an extra hour... so what. If one asks for help and u just might want a piece of loot in the same location, gain some rep, etc. Stop turnin cauldrons in WPL for 2 minutes and help out. Trust me when I say, MORE time is lost looking for groups then actual time playing a zone you THINK you dont have to be in.

    In the end, you end up with a deeper, stronger playerbase that you dont have to make up for with players from other guilds. Puttin 5 heads together to make 1 uber is much easier then 1 for 1.

    -sometimes lvl 60 seems 20 levels higher then 59

  • #2
    Re: Need some help here....

    Siulung, It has been my experience that you should never, ever, expect to hop in game and get a group going on a whim. It just doesn't happen.


    It's as hard to understand as it is to put into words, but Farming, BG's, Spamming to sell stuff in IF, it's all essential to survival at 60, depending on the way you play your character. If I play the salesperson, I sell. I play the PVPer, I PVP. I play the farmer, I farm. So, asking the PVPer to Stop PVPing, or the Farmer to stop Farming, it doesn't really sit well with the PVPer or the Farmer.

    The unfortunate thing is that every second you're helping someone else you're missing out on; the HK's, the Drops you're farming, or the sweet deal in the trade channel.

    And the other unfortunate thing is: We've been there. All of us.

    It IS torture, but what do we all remember from our days in UBRS? Torture. BRD, Torture. Scholomance, Torture. Be it from the teams, from the bad luck with the drops, or the burnout from doing it 70 times a week, most likely all of the above, It's asking alot more than you think to revisit these places.

    And believe it or not, we've all felt the stresses you're having right now. But we also have the added stress that those below feel it our responsibility to pull them up to 60, when there wasn't always someone there to do it for us. The transition from 59-60 is trading one headache for another.

    I was fortunate to go on a few UBRS runs with TG at those levels. They weren't always perfect. They were always fun.

    I also went on many PUG UBRS runs. Most were never perfect, but I have to admit, many of them were alot of fun as well.

    And just FYI, I ground alone from level 57 (19 or so bars) to 60. In a day.
    Just so I could be eligible for MC that evening, and I was tired of begging for help with instances.

    I'm not trying to justify our actions against you, I'm trying to show the other view. There is no right problem to either solution.

    Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

    I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak


    • #3
      Re: Need some help here....

      Siulung, I'm sorry if you've been feeling neglected. One of the reasons is because we really ARE raiding a good deal. No one wants to start or do an instance one, two, or even three hours before the raid start because its uncertain if we'll be done and hate to leave midway or even right at the very tail end. While we're raiding you're going to get a lot of blank screen because people tend to focus on raid, teamspeak, and general chat when we're zoned in. After the raid people are just plain TIRED and want to do something light before heading to bed if they're not asleep at their keyboards already. Fastforward a little and you find people still wiped out after raiding long into the night or spending much needed time with family and friends offline. There's a very slim window for help, but when you find yourself in it then everything is shiney. I'm willing to wager that now that you've posted your problem you'll get a few people offering to help on a few days in the near future when they can set some time aside and are relatively free.

      As for people who are doing other things when you ask? You have to admit that there was recently a brand new patch with content that might vanish at any moment. People want to experience this content and get what they can out of it while they still can. Scholo will still be there in a week or two, the scourge invasion may not. Also the road to getting ranks in PvP is VERY VERY difficult. People clock in hours of doing nothing BUT PvP in battlegrounds to make some headway in the ranks. If they slow down or stop someone else may come up from behind and bump them down in the rankings to make them work extra hard the week after.

      My excuse? A combination of the two actually. I'll be leaving on a buisness trip on Monday and won't be bank for about a week which means I'll miss a good deal of the midsummer festival and probably a chunk of the scourge invasion. I will also miss a full week of PvP so I have to get as much honor as possible while I still can so I don't drop too far from inactivity. Hence why I was obsessing over that Midsummer quest to the instances so baddly and why I spent every other moment in BGs.

      As for your experiences in PUGs? Yeah...I think we've all been there before. :D As a general rule of thumb you have to remember one thing: "People are stupid and selfish". It comes to various degrees and there are some exceptions to the rule, but when you are mixed with strangers you tend to think more along the lines of your needs than anyone else's. However, you will also LEARN some very important lessons while in a PUG. You learn to think on your feet and realize the potential and power of each and every one of your skills to save the day. Ever see a priest do a mind soothe split pull? A hunter trap two mobs? How about a mage doing a double sheep counterspell pull? All very neat tricks and things you will never see if everything goes 'perfectly'.

      Some pieces of advice when choosing a PUG:

      1) Avoid 'anal' leaders. These are the people who INSIST that they 10 man LBRS and must have a certain number of a certain class or else everything fails and the run can't go. Your ability to succeed in an instance is equal parts skill, determination, and class balance. Technically, nothing is 'needed' if you have a good enough plan to back it up. I've 5 maned Scholo with 4 hunters and a druid healer, then I went back and did it again with 3 hunters, a rogue, and a priest. Both without wipes. My pet tanked Baron! Granted, it was a very very slow kill, but the fact that my pet tanked him is something to be proud of. All three are things that 'can't be done' but have been simply because a different plan was put into action. The more forgiving the group leader is with class balance the more they probably know about the abilities of other classes. Paladin main healer? Paladin main tank? Druid main healer? Druid main tank? Priest shadow DPS? Warlock tank? Rogue tank? If you can think of a way to make it work, it can in most instances. Of course, too forgiving and the leader may just be a desperate idiot. ^_^

      2) Commit as much time as you want to commit and claim 'guild business' if you feel you've committed to much. I know it seems cheap, but you have a right to be selfish if your group is doing poorly and your leader is an ass. However, you also have to expect the same of the others in your PUG. Not everyone has the dedication to stick it out and your failed raids are people who usually give up because its not easy or fast enough.

      3) HAVE FUN!!! Yes there is a grind to 60 to get into the endgame raids, but there is also a lot to do before that. Find something else to do for a while and casually scan LFG or ask on guild channel from time to time. If you find something else to do it doesn't seem like a waste of time anymore. You'll see the instances eventually and probably sooner than any hunter will ever do. Hit the BGs and nuke some horde into oblivion. Farm some rep or tag along on a scourge raid. Heck, travel the world and try to do the midsummer quests for kicks.

      BTW, you can't complete the Ony quest until the next patch (probably 1.111) because the scourge invasion events are screwing with the winsor march in Stormwind event. Just put it on the back burner and curse at Blizzard for not testing their patches better. ;)

      If you need any help look me up when I get back in July. I'll see what I can do to help out if you need some DPS or even a healer with my priest alt.
      My sanity is not in question...
      It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

      Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.


      • #4
        Re: Need some help here....

        Siulung, I will show you an incredible place to grind, I powerleveled Lady(suffix here), Phantom, Chirp, and another guy in that place. You will get about 1000 exp per pull, closer to 2000 if ur rested. And since im ice spec it will be easier. When I get home from work ill show you what im talking about. All you will have to do is AOE, ill take all the hits.

        "REMEMBER! Pillage first THEN Burn!"


        • #5
          Re: Need some help here....

          Thanks for the suggestions guys. But really, it's not about powerleveling - it's more about playing with my guild.

          I'm being a bit of a hypocrite because I was the first to say I GOTTA get to 60 so I can PLAY with my guild - crebis and luna can attest to this.

          But at 5AM in a PUG in BRD and 2 days on the same lvl things start to corrupt the mind. :) Specially when u hear people doing other things and having fun.

          Also, I'm one that doesnt like to lvl past dungeons - many of these dungeons were meant to level INSIDE... not AFTER you reach 60. This was my goal, but I dont think it'll happen. A lot of it has to do with log room - there's like 7 BRD quests.. so you've gotta get through them to make room for scholo, LRBRS, UBRS, STRAT etc. And each of those has many quests as well.

          Between all these dungeons from 55-60, one should be able to get to 60 and have all the keys/attunement they need, along with gear.

          Alas, it aint gonna happen. so I guess i will quest-grind till 60, then whine some more then :) hehe All the while lurking the new global-LFG channel for a ray of light between Chuck Norris arguments and spammers.

          As for Raid scheduling, they're set for peak time - so statistically most of the guild will log ONLY at those times and not be able to assist. I HAVE been online MANY MANY times OUTSIDE of the raid schedule and still really cant get anything goin with the guild even when people are on... the only time I have been able to is at 5AM with the Australians (dunzo, etc.)

          anyways, I'm just frustrated... I'm like Tarenth also, I have to WORK. And when I WORK I miss things in-game. I will be leaving on another trip on the 7th of July and after that you guys wont see me very much. So getting stuck in the muck with PUGs until that time just to have to leave town isnt very appealing.

          So, I'm just gonna grind to 60 and worry about the rest later.

          edit: Tarenth, that was a good point about the patch and one I didnt really think about. I was actually under the impression the Invasion would be on indefinitely, so it never occured to me people would make it so imperative. The curiosity factor also takes hold. Just bad timing I guess.

          edit2: Vin, I just wished I could be in these places with the guild.. it would be more efficient, move faster, and I'd be gettin xp and things done at the same time. Regardless, there are numerous times when u cant do something alone... like the times I've been in WPL killin Araj - these things are quick and luckily people were there grinding already so I could grab em for help. Otherwise, I'm alone- i've lost count of the quests I've had to abandon for this reason. Something like the Ony chain or getting attuned to MC is something to me the guild should help its members with - why?? because the guild is there largely to raid in these places. Saying "go do your Ony chain and come see me after" is kinda wrong. Spending half a day in BRD when you can get attuned to MC in 20 minutes with your guild is illogical. This is my point; same goes for other Raid instances...etc.
          Last edited by Gambit7; 06-25-2006, 03:24 PM.


          • #6
            Re: Need some help here....

            Firstly, Siulung, I mean you no offense with my response and I hope you don't take it that way.

            You weren't around for my run to 60, but I'll let you know what went down. I only ran instances with TG a few times. BRD when I was level 51 and UBRS when I was like, ... 53. It was too low is all I remember. But my set pieces and finishing up to level 60, ... I did that all in PUGs. I got 7/8 Magisters at one point. Only one piece was from a run that TG members were in (it wasn't a full TG run, it was mostly PUG). My point is, this has been going on for a long time, and probably will continue to. As much as you make goals in your leveling before 60, the level 60 people are setting their own goals that they want to accomplish whether it be in the BG's, loot-wise, with the new content, or even on the AH. Sometimes there are bored 60's who will be willing to help you, but for the most part I think if people aren't raiding, they're just kind of doing their own thing.

            It's difficult not to take it as a slap in the face. Trust me, I know, I HAVE been there. But it's also a lot like telling your teenage daughter that one boy rejecting her won't crush her heart forever. It may be true, but it probably won't make her feel any better. It's something she must learn from experiencing. I know it's an odd analogy, but it's the same case in the frustrations you're having. Once you get to 60 and start getting your set pieces, maybe you'll look back and say "it wasn't so bad".

            I also highly suggest making an alt. when you're frustrated. The quick progress feels good and will cheer you up and make you feel less like you're beating your head against a brick wall. Get it to level 18-20 and then go PUG the Deadmines. You'll quickly see that any PUG's you're in on your 57-58, are a far cry from some of the idiocy that goes on there. Plus it makes you appreciate the kind of power that your high level toon has.

            Most importantly, don't let leveling woes get you down. If you get frustrated, do something else for a while, save up that rested XP until you can come back and it's not as frustrating.

            It's a game. Try to have fun no matter what you're doing. Don't expect things from your guildmates, but instead, when something is done for you think of it as a blessing or a perk. It's much less frustrating that way.

            Best of luck to you. Happy leveling. You'll make it soon enough.

            Take Care,


            • #7
              Re: Need some help here....

              you know I love ya... but back when you were in the guild when we were the same level you were probably the MOST helped member in the entire roster. What happened after I left is another story I guess. Like you said also, you were in PUGs, but they at least had 1 or 2 TG with you. All those runs through SM or scholo back in the day were largely TG runs so u could get all the leet gear and lvl quickly.

              The comparison is apples to oranges, today's TG is way different from yesterday's.

              Personally, I dont think I could stand getting an entire Magister's set, let alone 7/8 in pure PUGs. I just cant see myself grinding those dungeons with strangers that many times. there's gotta be a friendly presence - like there was when u were around.

              Anyways, my intention with this thread was just visibility. In a way I wish it would just vanish as I dont like negative posts. But, if I can get people to be a bit more helpful to eachother no matter what lvl they are then I've succeeded. Otherwise, I guess I've just moaned and groaned. If people cant see the inherent efficiency with groups/guild in a guild as good as TG, then they aint ever gonna learn.


              • #8
                Re: Need some help here....

                Originally posted by Gambit7
                Anyways, my intention with this thread was just visibility. In a way I wish it would just vanish as I dont like negative posts. But, if I can get people to be a bit more helpful to eachother no matter what lvl they are then I've succeeded. Otherwise, I guess I've just moaned and groaned. If people cant see the inherent efficiency with groups/guild in a guild as good as TG, then they aint ever gonna learn.

                Good point. I hope this thread gives the desired effect, and I apologize for contributing to any negativity. If you ever need anything, you know how to reach me. ::hugs::


                • #9
                  Re: Need some help here....

                  Most of the leveling I've done with Dreadd and Mordreadd has been either solo or with a small circle of friends I've developed, some of whom are in TG and some of whom are not. Basically, you have to give to get, and I've helped the folks in this circle many times, and vice versa.

                  BTW, Mordreadd will be needing all the attunements and instance runs 55-60 beginning right away (he hit 54 yesterday, woot!) and he's gonna be lookin at instance runs from here on out... Gotta get that phat caster loot for my mage!

                  PS: Keep an eye out for Mildreadd, she's a hot little mini-momma who just might start showing up now and again, to keep her big brothers in line, lol...


                  • #10
                    Re: Need some help here....

                    Gambit...I have no idea who you are but I will help you. Unfortunately, I will be going on vacation next week. If you have 2 computers, send me a private message.




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