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  • Raid Signup Q

    Friendly question and let me preface the following by saying that all parties are ready to go the second the leader pulls the trigger to start the raid.

    Do Alts get dibs over mains in the raid Q for raid runs? Just wanted to hear the official TG ruling from an Officer so others don't get frustrated going forward. My apologies in advance if this is stated already somewhere else in the forums.

    Also on a sidenote, what about non TG'ers that sign up thus putting guildies in the Q?
    Lub it on!!!

  • #2
    Re: Raid Signup Q

    There are actually 2 rulings on this: the official ruling and the 'in practice' ruling.

    It has been explained to me several times by officers that the following is true:
    • You note your main in the thread marked for doing so. This will be the character noted to the class leaders and you are allowed to que for 40 man raids with. All other characters are then noted as 'alts' unless special circumstance is noted by a class leader
    • You are not allowed to queue for any 40 man raids with your alt unless you have the permission of the class leader to do so. This is to allow people with mains of that class to play their class more and thus get loot for their class.
    • You are not allowed to take any loot on any 40 man raids with your alt unless all other participants of the raid on their mains have done so. This is to allow the people to improve their mains first because those characters are the ones they will be taking on raids most of the time.
    • If asked to bring an alt instead of your main your DKP will always be 0 as what you earn or spends gets transfered to your main character's DKP numbers. That means you can 'borrow' from your main to buy BoEs for your main if you're on your alt.
    • If you recieved clearance from a class leader to sign up with your alt to a 40 man raid all DKP spent and earned will stay with your alt and you cannot touch the DKP of your main.


    Of course, like other regulations there's a double standard. The following is also true:
    • If you do not remind the looter that you are an alt you can 'ninja' loot away from people who need it for their main. They can't remember everything and alts are one of those sticky things that are hard to keep track of. Of course, using the mod 'incognito' which tags your alt with the name of your main would ruin this so disable it before you pull a ninja act
    • If the people in charge of the queue sign ups are busy you can sign up for raids with your alt and get away with ninjaing a spot away from someone using their main. Bad things happen to good people, try not to be one of the good people in this case.
    • If everyone is excited over a good performance or great loot dropping then you could bid on something you're not supposed to and get away with it as people are too happy to see it drop to realize you're not supposed to get it.
    • If someone forgets to include you in something because you are an alt and thus not normally there then you can get away with avoiding all those pesky 'responsibilities' people who play their mains have. Like buffing and decursing.


    As for guildies vs non-guildies? Its a rule that has never gone into affect with the sign ups...ever. Maybe if the non-guildies weren't good friends it'd be possible to kick them for a guildie, but if they weren't good friends we'd never invite them back in the first place. Pants pirates are (unofficially) the Aussie branch of TG so they defy all rules. The only time we'd pick a guildie over a non-guildie in my experience is when the sign-ups are gone, the que is empty, and we're trying to drag warm bodies in to fill up left over slots.


    And as always the word of the class leader trumps all. If the class leader lets you get away with something but slaps someone else with a restriction just be glad you're on their good side.
    My sanity is not in question...
    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Raid Signup Q

      Is that the word according to "Tarenth" or is that spelled out. I think some of your points are definetly in question. I would like to see word from Luna/Crebis/Beep on this.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Raid Signup Q

        When I do invites, I make certain to check the signups before I invite anyone out of guild.

        The official rule on non-guildies is that guildies have precedence over non-guildies PROVIDED THAT you sign up at least one day in advance.

        However, if a non-guildie is signed up, no other guildies are on, and we hit the replacement mark (15 mins before start time) then the non-guildie gets in.

        There have been times when I've asked people to leave a raid for other reasons (not having CTRA/TS), but to date I've never asked someone out of guild to leave by simple virtue of them not being in the guild.

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        • #5
          Re: Raid Signup Q

          As it was explained to me regarding bringing an alt on a 40 man raid at the raid leaders request you can choose to have your DKP go to the alt or your main...not automatically going to your main.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Raid Signup Q

            Some of them are kinda odd, but that's basically whats in print, been told to me (repeatedly), and I've personally witnessed.

            I suppose you could ask to have the DKP left on your alt if you really wanted to, but then to actually make use of it you'd have to apply to have your main switched to your alt so you can start bidding on items. Or just pester the class leader into an exception which would probably be given by just not enforcing the rule.

            As for the 'no loot' rule? When I was first asked to switch to my priest for MC due to being short on healers I was told by some of the officers (a combination of Arkamis, Crebis, and Luna but I can't remember which two or if it was all three now) in whispers that I was not allowed to roll on any priest loot until the people with priest mains got them first. That was because such gear would help them heal better and it would benefit us more to have the healers who are constantly there healing better than some 'on request' alt. Of coruse, at that point in time we were still having problems with Geddon and Shaz and we don't have all the epics we do now. I was never told if it was changed or not, but over the course of 14 days (next time I was asked 2 weeks later) it seems to have faded from memory since I got oh so many tells wondering why I didn't bid on priest gear and just what the 'alt loot exception rule' was. Any how, until someone actually says that rule has been stricken that's what I was told...adamently and repeatedly...so thats what I'm going to stick with.

            As for the 0 DKP rule...eh...my memory seems to be faulty or else it didn't play out like I thought it would. The time I witnessed an alt being awarded an item because everyone else had it (Crimsonite's alt Crimsonlight) seems to be noted differently on the DKP site. Apparently all his positive DKP got transfered to Crimsonite and the cost of the item was deducted from the resultant 0 DKP. Guess that means if you're asked to play and alt you can get items while keeping, and earning, DKP for your main without the cost.
            My sanity is not in question...
            It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


            Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Raid Signup Q

              There have been some changes in officer chat and forums to this proceedure, but it still isn't completely in practice. Here is the way it's supposed to work now:

              1. Guild main toons get signup preference over alts. Mains will bump alts from slots that are already signed up for. A main should not kick an alt out of an already formed raid though - Somebody stepped up on an alt to fill a spot, have some courtesy and allow them to stay instead of twiddling thier thumbs.

              2. Once in the raid, there is no preference for loot. DKP is DKP and each toon has their own. If a toon, who had last priority to signup, has the DKP to bid on an item, they are obviously needed by the guild, and should be geared accordingly. If we see an alt toon often, they should have the gear to be an asset to the raid, not just a body that drops 10 seconds into each fight. There is still some debate over the 3-run rule applying to each toon seperately, but I'm all for that, and I am one of the top alt-players in raids.
              Anahlahna and Friends

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Raid Signup Q

                Anah,

                On your second point, if alts are allowed to bid on items that other mains still need are they still going to be allowed to transfer dkp between toons? If the RL requests a player to switch because of a raid need of a certain class that's one thing, but if alts are allowed to sign-up and go on raids and bid over mains then we may end up with decked out mains being benched as soon as they get the gear they need which is really going to hurt the raid overall. I guess as long as rule number one is enforced and mains always get preference in the sign-ups then maybe this won't be an issue.
                Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
                Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
                ...and other distractions of various levels.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Raid Signup Q

                  Have the Officers discussed making all Alts that sign up for raids signing up in the Q instead of the Main list?

                  This would show the Main to Alt comparison very clearly.

                  Thoughts? Good idea, bad idea?

                  -Pistos- I think you brought up a very good point. Will be interested to see responses.

                  -Arkamis- Thanks for clearing up, "guildies have precedence over non-guildies PROVIDED THAT you sign up at least one day in advance."

                  -Tarenth- You also bring up some very good points and seem to speak from experience. I am glad to see what the brass thinks so we are all on the same page.

                  You can not imagine how nice it has been here for me in TG coming from other guilds where "drama" was always on high.
                  Lub it on!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Raid Signup Q

                    As an added suggestion, could we not make everyone state in the comment section that "This is" <insert main toon>'s "Alt." I think it would help with raid tracking and dkp disbursement. Just a thought.
                    "Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Raid Signup Q

                      We've been seeing more and more alts on raids, while mains are sitting out. I would also like to get clarification to make sure I'm not gonna be in the queue because alts have filled up the main slots. Maybe a rule about when signing up an alt, you have to put them in the queue? I've also seen people logging on with their alts trying to get in raids without trying on their main, so it seems the rules are a little lax right now, and having so many people trying to raid, now is the time to follow rules as exactly as we can.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Raid Signup Q

                        Alrighty! Time for some clarification. Some of the questions brought up are things we have been talking about amongst officers, but overall the rules have stayed consistent. Mistakes do happen, for certain, but not intentionally.

                        Here we go.

                        1. Signing up with Main toons vs. Alts: You are to sign up for raids with your main toon, that you have declared in the main toon thread. I have seen some inconsistency here, but overall, we have tried to make this the bottom line rule.

                        2. Bringing an alt to a raid: You may be asked to take one of your alts into a raid due to the needs of the raid. In this case, if you are specifically asked to switch toons, you are able to transfer your DKP earned on your alt to your main toon. That is your choice- you can do with it as you wish. If for whatever reason your alt is in a raid and it isn't due to us needing you to be on your alt, AND you have the clearance of the class leader, your DKP earned will stay on your alt, and is not transferable.

                        3. Bidding DKP while on an Alt: For looting purposes, if you are asked to take your alt, we ask you to be considerate to people who are there on their mains. You may bid DKP on an item for your alt in this case, but the DKP will be based on what you have accrued with your alt, not your main. This keeps the loot priorities in line. If you are taking an alt into a raid for any other reason, I am not certain of how we have decided to handle this. I assure you, I will approach the officers and find an answer for you.

                        4. Guildie vs. Non-Guildie sign up priority: If you have signed up 24 hours in advance of a raid, you will have priority over non-guildies for signups. If you sign up the day of the raid, we can't promise you a spot, but we will certainly do our best. Once a raid begins is where we still have some questions. What happens when a guildie in the queue signs on after the raid start? Can they bump a non-guildie? Hot topic. Not sure. Our response to this hasn't been consistent yet, but we are working on a solution.

                        5. "Bumping" non-guildies and alts from the signups: In theory, a non-guildie should be automatically bumped into the queue if a guildie signs up. In practice, we're still getting the hang of this. There is no automatic system in place, and as such it isn't something we, the officers, always remember to do. If you catch us in the act though, just holler! We will stick to these rules with our best efforts, but we too make our share of errors. So long as the guildie signed up 24 hours in advance, the non-guildie SHOULD be bumped.

                        In summary, my apologies for any confusion on these topics. We are a work in progress, and put all of our effort into making this as simple as possible. These rules are how things are SUPPOSED to go, and we will continue to put efforts into being sure of consistency, as well as ironing out any questionable issues that have come up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Raid Signup Q

                          *much love for Luna* Thanks for posting up something official.

                          Yeah, I'm not brass...I don't think I even rate cheap tin, but I tend to post things based on my observations and experiences. When one of the PTBs posts something nice, long, and official looking it really helps to stop a lot of head scratching over "Are we supposed to do that?" situations.
                          My sanity is not in question...
                          It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                          Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Raid Signup Q

                            Thank you kindly Luna!

                            Maybe needs a sticky...
                            Lub it on!!!

                            Comment

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