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  • I guess this is farewell

    Alts are worthless in this guild unless you are an officer. Now that the official stance is they get one day (oh boy...ZG) it just isn't worth it for me to keep any of them in the guild. I don't play Altor much...I really don't like to. But he is my main and that is what was needed to get into MC. So it seems if I want to play Gundola, I have to do it elsewhere. I could understand when we were splitting raids between 2 guilds. But now that we can form our own 40 man...it's just not right. I am leaving knowing I took nothing from the guild. You didn't gear me (I got one Arcanist piece), and I know I have contributed in the herb/items department.

    I hope you can come to a resolution about alts. People put the same time and effort into leveling them to 60. They want to be able to play them as well. If that means moving to another guild, it will happen. That just means TG will miss out, not only on some good toons, but the people behind them as well. They won't be able to make the raids with their mains if they are raiding in another guild with their "alt".


    Ricca, thank you for taking the time to talk to me about this...You were the only one to send me a tell. If you ever need anything, just ask.

  • #2
    Re: I guess this is farewell

    Could've sworn the 'official stance' applies to only Molten Core, Onyxia, and now Blackwing Lair.

    ZG and AQ20 were always, to my knowledge, FFA for mains or alts.
    My sanity is not in question...
    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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    • #3
      Re: I guess this is farewell

      Ever guild i have been a part of or talk to on a regular basis has the same basic concept of a rule. You are expected to raid with you main no matter what instance it is(20 mans do tend to welcome alts more). If your alt class is needed then you can bring them. All loot goes to mains first because the reason a guild does end game is to better equip mains to help concur all the content that blizzard throws at us(so any gear to better help a raid is more valuable in a mains hands) and if mains all pass then alts can roll. I know that this seems unfair to a lot of people. I mean i have 4 and soon to be 5 60s myself. But everyone should have the mind set to better outfit the guild as a whole to concure BWL/AQ40 and eventually Naxx. That is just my two cents for what it's worth.
      Thunderhorn:
      70 Night Elf Priest-Lunaar(holy)
      70 Human Mage-Alava(Fire)
      70 Night Elf Hunter-Insai(Beast Master)
      70 Dwarf Paladin-Ginoldor(Protection)
      70 Human Warrior-Revenged(Protection)
      70 Draenei Shaman-Tianora(Elemental)
      70 Draenei Shaman-Fayrel(Restoration)
      Gilneas:
      50 Undead Priest-Eikyl(Shadow)

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      • #4
        Re: I guess this is farewell

        We need to run zg, and aq with our alts to get them geared, just like we did with our mains. (I think the fang of venoxious is almost as good as the azuresong mageblade, and no dkp spent) When enough alts are geared, alt night could run into MC, but that will take a while. We hate to lose you over this Altor, you've been a great guildie. I have 5 60s myself, and agree with you about the work put in to get them to 60, and wanting to get them geared. Where we run into problems is that we need a certain level of gearing to hit the next set of dungeons. If we start rotating alts into normal raids, we don't get any faster at them, and the mains get geared slower. The concern seems to be that people with only 1 high-level toon will get bored and move on so they can be in a guild with new content. We are striving to achieve some sort of balance. If you feel you must leave while the waters are still churning, we wish you the best and I'll put you on my friends list. Good luck.
        Anahlahna and Friends

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        • #5
          Re: I guess this is farewell

          Altor, I'm sorry to see you leave, especially before we had a chance as a guild to come to a more comprehensive resolution of the mains and alts priorities and rules. Nevertheless, I know that you're doing what you think is best for you.
          Beep


          Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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          • #6
            Re: I guess this is farewell

            Hey Altor drop me a line in game when you can, please.

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            • #7
              Re: I guess this is farewell

              I dont see how officers have special privleges when it comes to alts, did I miss something??

              "REMEMBER! Pillage first THEN Burn!"

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              • #8
                Re: I guess this is farewell

                My reasons for even having alts is simply to FEED my main, which back in the day was the only logical reason for having one. You cover your bases with all the professions, etc. and make bag-space. Therefore, creating one super-toon.

                Having more then one toon and expecting them all to get Enigma vestments and Shifting Sand two-handers is a bit illogical.

                And from what I've seen in my short time raiding so far is that we ALWAYS have a need for alts in EVERY raid anyways! Because there's almost always a slot that needs to be filled.

                If any policy needed to be changed with this it's that mains that are ASKED to switch to their alts for the purpose of strengthening the raid should be allowed to loot as the others do. Or at the very least, have the DKP transfer to their main (which is what I believe we already do). In 20-mans the former makes more sense obviously. Otherwise, it's not right for someone's alt to be taking valuable 40-man raid space when someone else's Main could have that slot.

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                • #9
                  Re: I guess this is farewell

                  There aren't enough alts to man a full 20 man, let alone a 40man. We can't stop with getting our mains set just to work on alts. We can't say, "ok, rags is done, let's do it again, this time with alts!!" because that just stagnates our mains. I think we should work alts into regular raiding once the mains are well-geared, but we're NOT going to be falling back on alts for BWL. It's simply not feasible. We need to progress on our mains first and foremost, then work on alts as we can. Fact of the matter is there are far fewer people with raid-level alts than there are with raid level mains, and it's not fair to hold back the people with mains while we get more and more alts geared to BWL level raiding when they can only take one character in at a time.

                  In my opinion, I think that getting alts gear is VERY important for when they DO need to fill the critical places, but I don't think that we're nearly at the point where we can do alt MC. I am hoping that we get to the point that when alts come, they can get a fair crack at gear.

                  However, as we get our mains their MC gear, the same gear will be dropping and become available to alts simply by default. This has the added benefit of us not losing DKP to disenchantment.

                  In short, if we can permit alts into MC on an as-possible basis, I think the problem will solve itself.

                  Time will only tell.

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                  • #10
                    Re: I guess this is farewell

                    We cannot run MC with alts yet, no doubt, and we are not even considering slowing down the running and gearing of the mains. We are putting forth the idea that we have many 60 alts who are called upon to fill slots, but are not geared nearly well enough. We are throwing around the idea that the blood sweat and tears gone into leveling an alt to 60 should not be tossed to the side completely. We are simply allowing 1 raid every week or two to give signup pref to alts, for fun and gearing. This will start with 20 man raids, or 10 mans, and grow as the alts do, and more are added to their number.

                    No Main should feel threatened by the recognition of alts in the guild. 95% of the raids will still have mains as the signup priority, and alts will be forced into the queue so mains know that those slots are theirs if they want them. Alt nights will also give mains a chance to earn rep with factions and run when they might have missed the main run, they will just have to queue for signups on those nights.
                    Anahlahna and Friends

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                    • #11
                      Re: I guess this is farewell

                      Originally posted by Anah View Post
                      No Main should feel threatened by the recognition of alts in the guild.
                      This is really stressed.

                      It should also be noted that no one wants to halt the progression of mains to sit back and gear other people's alts. However, we still intend on getting alts gear when possible.

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                      • #12
                        Re: I guess this is farewell

                        Originally posted by Anah View Post
                        We need to run zg, and aq with our alts to get them geared, just like we did with our mains.
                        The problem with this is that, while some people have gotten their gear from the 20 mans, many haven't. It can be quite insulting if you start gearing alts because you have the gear you want, while many mains are still going for that gear and now have to compete against someone's alt.

                        With mains, when someone else's main gets a gear item, then they are off the competition for it next drop. When you swap out the main characters and start bringing in alts, you end up with a never diminishing flow of alts where a main is consistantly backseated to gearing out alts. This problem only occurs in the 20 mans because of free rolling and no priority system.

                        Bringing alts on 20 mans (or even 40 mans) is a fine idea, because we usually have loot that would otherwise go to waste, however, the alts need to have courtesy to mains who have been running the instance for much longer who are going after the same item.

                        Once example would be the ZG enchant idol. This is something that should really be only for main characters, as nearly everyone needs two of them and most everyone doesn't even a have one. Additionally, folks still gearing up should pass to people who already have the armor to enchant. Enchanting a blue headpiece really is a waste of the enchant; an epic head or leg slot that you plan on keeping for a long while should be a prerequisite going after the idol.


                        Summary: Alts are good to have on raids, we'll gear 'em up with the extra drops we get. However, alts need to be considerate to people who are focusing their efforts and gearing up their main.

                        It's the mains who will be getting us past BWL and trumping AQ20 and venturing into AQ40; in the end, they are the greater asset to the guild.
                        Zeeg - Gnomish Giant Slayer

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                        • #13
                          Re: I guess this is farewell

                          What makes a main a main and an alt an alt. It seems to me that your main the char you enjoy playing the most, and do play the most. Not too long ago Ricca was Candrice and Candrice was the main. Now I'm pretty sure we can say Ricca is the main and Candrice is the alt. If you want to play Gundola then declare him your main and Altor your alt.
                          "they're more like guidelines, than actual rules,"....Captain Barbossa - Pirates of the Caribbean

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                          • #14
                            Re: I guess this is farewell

                            Originally posted by Quarath View Post
                            What makes a main a main and an alt an alt. It seems to me that your main the char you enjoy playing the most, and do play the most. Not too long ago Ricca was Candrice and Candrice was the main. Now I'm pretty sure we can say Ricca is the main and Candrice is the alt. If you want to play Gundola then declare him your main and Altor your alt.
                            Uhhh....that would also require the approval of the Class Leader for your "new" main. If that class is already full...then it can be an issue.
                            Beep


                            Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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                            • #15
                              Re: I guess this is farewell

                              Candrice was my main then I was working on Ricca I let everyone know that once she gets to 60 Candrice was going to be put on the shelf and Ricca would be my main then and a year ago that how Ricca became my mainbut then we werent worried baout class balance or instance running or anything of that sort like we are now.. If anyone wants to change there main as long as both class leaders dont mind anyone can change there mains...We would rather make guildies happier to change there mains and not recruit out and keep guildies from leaving the guild...
                              Candrice 63 Warrior
                              Ricca 70 Rogue
                              Machelle 70 Mage
                              Enya 74 Druid

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