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I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

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  • I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

    We all know as a guild that we need to contribute equally and share costs, mats etc. This is evidenced by our being willing to tip Ricca for pots and the Engi's for bots. Hell, look at the generosity that many have shown to Halten. I think however that there is one cost that we've been ignoring and that's the cost for our MT Beep and his tanking friends. I can tell you from my brief stint as MT2 that tanking is freaking expensive. Outrageously expensive to be exact. A typical MC run will cost somewhere between 10g and 20g depending on how smoothly it goes. The more Beep dies, the more expensive it gets.

    I know many of you may be thinking "so what, we all have repair bills". Yes that is true but very few of us have bills that are of the same magnitude. There's also another substantial difference. Beep is a MT and there is essentially one thing a MT can do and that's tank. Kitty's in the same boat as a MT2. I don't think you'll ever see either of them outside grinding mats in the Plaguelands or grinding rep in Silithus. The reason why is because it's freaking horrible to gring anything as a prot spec. It's a lot like being a Paladin only your dps is lower! :)

    So here's my thought. Why don't we begin a weekly donation to a "tank repair fund"? This way the guys that take the biggest beating don't have to pay for so much of it out of pocket. I think if we all contributed 1g per week or hell 1g every other week we'd have more than enough money to cover the ridiculous costs associated with the profession.

    If you don't feel like participating that's fine, no one will single you out. You just may get to keep your aggro the next time! :P

    So what do you think?
    “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

  • #2
    Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

    I think its a great idea


    • #3
      Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

      I say the tank should get a stipend from the guild bank. Why else have it if not to keep Beep and the other protection speced warriors from having to scrounge for cash in order to make repairs meet. -.-
      My sanity is not in question...
      It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

      Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.


      • #4
        Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

        I think selling some of the junk in the bank that we can't give away, could and should be used as a away to appropreate funds for our MTs. As a conservative, I'm against taxes!
        I don't suffer from insanity,
        I enjoy every minute of it!


        • #5
          Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

          As an engineer, Friolator usually has a repair bot on him. I don't expect tips from the tanks, they pay enough. If other classes have a repair bill, it's usually from mistakes and drawing aggro, but tanks get one just by doing thier job.
          Anahlahna and Friends


          • #6
            Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

            Bear, while I like the idea, tanks are the only ones racking up big bills. I go through between 75g and 100g every weekend we raid on pots(20-25g/5 Major Mana, I typically carry 10-15), candles(2g a stack, I go through about 4 stacks a weekend), repairs and miscellanious stuff(fire/nat resist pots) myself, and I know I am not the only one. I constantly run low on cash too, it sucks, but its part of what we are doing. I don't carry all that stuff cause I want to , its so I can do my job, just like a tank does theres.

            If we think we should do this for one group, I really think we should consider doing it for all, and I don't even know if thats feasible.

            I do agree with Vondoom that we have 2k gold in the bank and a ton of blue items no one ever wants except for alts, maybe its time to make some cash to support the guilds expenses?
            Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

            | | |


            • #7
              Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

              As a rogue I can tell you that I spend, at worst, about 7 or 8g in repair bills per trip into MC. Usually it's more like 3 or 4. Add *maybe* 1g for poisons and arrows, 1 or 2g for fire pots, and perhaps a 1g tip for a repair bot, and my total weekend bill is at the very most 12g... probably 10g on average. So with the phat gold that Ony, Rags, and the salamanders drop in MC, I usually come out in the black or at least very close to it

              I guess my point is, don't worry about rogues' expenses. :-P I'd be willing to help out by contributing to a guild fund that would be used to help finance the raids a bit more equitably.


              • #8
                Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                I think it would be better if the cash support came from the guild bank. But we can also individually support the tanks directly with free enchants, pots, sharpening stones, etc. I know we do this with fire gear for our tanks already.

                I'm sure that the repair bills are sick when compared to clothies. But I agree with Saj that almost all the other classes have external costs as well. Mana pots are stupid expensive and any class that buffs has reagents to buy as well. I'm not sure what level of suck farming is on a Proc spec warrior, but I absolutely hate farming with my priest. But that's the choice I make because I like to be the best healer I can be during raids. Add to the fact that I'm a tailor/enchanter (so no mining or herb picking) and farming consists of running around slowly smiting stuff to death. That's why I created an alt to do what my main can't. I pick herbs so I can get my own pots made and I can actually kill things quickly.

                All that being said I would love to help any of your Proc guys out however I can. Let me know what kind of enchants you need and I'd be happy to use my own mats to help get them for you. I'm sure the other chanters would do the same. And if you want to farm 5-mans with your tanks for money (grey vendor trash, drops, shards) let me know and I'd be happy to come in and heal for you!
                Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
                Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
                ...and other distractions of various levels.


                • #9
                  Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                  Sell a felhart bracer on the AH.

                  Guild bank uses the cast to pass out to people who die more than normal (typically those combat rezzed). SWStats keeps track of deaths, so if someone dies more than (just a number) 8 times in a raid, they get (also just a number) 4g to assist with repair costs.

                  When the funds from the first felcash bracer run out, we put up another.

                  Likewise, we could assist with manapot costs, although everyone SHOULD rank up to Knight in PvP and buy the combat pots. They cut pot cost down significantly. Of course, I virtually never uses any pots in a raid (cept on rag, sometimes), so it's possible I dont get the whole picture here.

                  All in all - remember that the equipment you get in a raid is FAR FAR more valuable then any small repair/consumable costs you spend. And (at least for MC) by the end of the night, you usually have earned 10g+ from boss cash to offset costs.

                  End game raiding isn't a free ride, and the guild isn't something you subscribe to. You're PART of it - which means you get, but must give too. When we start a new boss, we're all gonna die... many times. And the guild wont be able to cover costs. Which means we're gonna have to go farm cash for ourselves. I think we should assist those who get hit hardest, but for the most part, having cash to repair is just like having plenty of bandages - it's part of being prepared.
                  Zeeg - Gnomish Giant Slayer


                  • #10
                    Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                    We haven't set up a policy yet, but after having our tails handed to us by Ossirian the other night, we talked briefly about this issue in officer chat. I honestly don't know if we decided anything, but as soon as we have a policy firmed up, we'll let everyone know.


                    • #11
                      Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                      I feel compelled to let you guys know that my repair bill from our date with Ossirian was 18g. It usually runs around 15g unless we happen to have flawless kills.


                      • #12
                        Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                        Sounds like Ossirian is one bad mamba jamba!
                        “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook


                        • #13
                          Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                          You know I dont like policies, BUT what I dont like more is giving people excuses not to attend raids or to leave early... which means, those who secretly get frustrated and leave 'cause they DIE TOO MUCH and dont want to spend the money will have no excuse if the guild subsidizes it.

                          Kind of a catch-22 situation I guess... in reality, the guild shouldnt have to coax players into participation by paying them. BUT, something should also be done with the guild resources - letting them sit idle is a bit foolish. For this, we're in the hands of the Officers... as they have to decide what to put guild assets towards. This I HOPE they meet on to figure out regularly.

                          Now, if repair bills can fit into the BIGGER picture without breaking the guild then fine. But, my feeling is.... it cant. Why?? There are just too many other expensive things that guildies need help with... like shards, crystals, bijous, tokens, ingots, scarabs... etc. Heck, I'd rather see everyone attuned to Naxx rather then be able to pay for everyone's repair bills.

                          So, I guess you've just gotta prioritize what we're gonna do here. You've also gotta do a whole heck of a lot of math. Zeeg made a great point about gold made during raids - for many this makes up for repair losses. Also, you have to look at it as an AVERAGE. Gettin snippy about 1 raid where u spent 15G isnt right when you've made 25+G just by bein in the raids for the week... not including gear obtained.

                          I heard there's about 2000G in the guild bank. That's not really a lot of gold people, many of our toons have this on them. If you were to give a fixed percentage of repair bill to every raider after every raid (which u would have to do to be fair), the guild would be broke. In BWL, I bet on average plate-users spend 12G+. Assume half the raid spends 10G+. If TG paid for 50% of the costs it'd cost the guild 100G just for this subgroup. On average casters probably will spend around 6G in repair bills... so say 60G paid by the guild. That's 160G for ONE RAID EVENING, not including pots, etc. If there are 3 40-mans/week, 1 of which is a wipe-fest... you're lookin at probably around 250G/week; not including 20-mans, which are at least 3 raids/week; on average the equivalent of adding another two 40-man raids.... Throw in 1 wipe-fest/20-man and you're lookin at around another 175G/week. I'm sure my math is off here.... but the numbers still aint pretty. 425G is a lotta guild expenditure per week. In 1 month the guild would be out of gold and hence unable to purchase more important items for overall player advancement.

                          So, as before... someone "financial" needs to analyze this stuff. I'm serious about this, it cant just be joe-blow shifting the gold around. In EVE we had RL Accountants doin a lot of our work; same in SWG. That's an extreme case, but for stuff like this you really gotta stick by the numbers, otherwise people take advantage.

                          Ideally, there would be an add-on that tracks repair expenses and raid profits, this way people's "opinions" would actually have factual support.

                          Also, need do we add another element to get pissed about when people gquit?


                          • #14
                            Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                            I know how Luna feels too. Normally I spend around 5-8g for repairs on average. For Ossirian I spent a total of 16g in repairs.


                            • #15
                              Re: I'll ask cause your tanks won't.

                              To Siulung.
                              People who leave TG because they're sick of dying generally find themselves dying somewhere else. I know you're not talking about me, but i'm going to use myself as an example anyways. I didn't leave to avoid dying... but if i had... My largest repair bill in TG before i left was around 10g. as soon as i joined Reverent, my first repair bill was 15 gold. The more Epics we get, the more our repair bills are going to be.

                              To everybody else.

                              WE ARE GOING TO DIE.
                              live with it :D

                              As for paying tanks to die for us, Sure. i'll fork over some cash, but speaking as an extremely heavy mana user, the thought of having the guild pay for Mana pots, or Wizard/mana oil, or anything, just seems wrong. I've learned to play in a fashion that doesn't require a boatload of mana pots. I've discovered the joys of Mana Regen.

                              Reverent buys pots and oils for new fights, but the guild leader also tends to go out farming for mats for flasks and potions.

                              As a paladin, I'm prone to being Soulstoned, which often times means two deaths per fight. sometimes, i luck out and get to DI somebody.
                              Warlocks can Hellfire their way into an Armor loss-less death.
                              Endgame raiding costs money, the guild should help where it can, but it shouldn't have to support you just because you don't feel like farming.

                              /gets off soap box.

                              I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.




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