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  • To the future and beyond...

    Without breaking into the officer forums and reading their mail I can only poll the rest of the guild and get a feel for where we want and feel the need to go.

    -We've gotten ZG down to a one night clear except for Jin'do.
    -AQ20 is already a full clear and we could probably do it in 1 night as well if we start skimping on boss explainations.
    -MC has been on one night farm status for weeks now
    -Onyxia is on the 'smash and grab' farm status of a raid
    -We're making significant progress in BWL with Razorgore on farm and Vael getting progressively closer to death

    My question to everyone is...what next?

    Out of a 3 day rotation we can clear both of the instances (AQ20 and ZG) in two of them. That leaves a third day relatively free if we don't do a 30 minute Onyxia run or take stabies at Jin'do.

    MC should be left on a one night basis because we can do it and you get more core leather out of the deal.

    BWL is relatively fast at this point and stage. Razorgore goes down with little to no fuss and the Vael fight/attempts are fast enough that you can win or wipe in the blink of an eye.

    In a talk with Palso after a raid some time ago he mentioned we should probably skip AQ40 and BoN rep to go straight into Naxx after a push to get people attuned.

    So...what now? Should we clear AQ20 and ZG in those 2 days and have a day off? Get a head start working on BWL during the week? Poke our heads into AQ40? Maybe have some 'lowbie alt nights' that have been popping up in requests on the forums?

    How about compressing BWL to one night of kills/atempts and poking around with AQ40 on the other night just to breath something new into the mix every few weeks?

    I know the guild line that we don't want to spread ourselves too thin. If we get involved in too many instances it will slow our progress down slightly and start a feeling of 'no progress' as our forward movement is stagnated. But how about taking a few peeks into AQ40? Maybe even Naxx? Get the floor wiped with us just to say we tried and realistically assess our strengths. Maybe we can kill the first boss in AQ40 while we work on BWL? It'd certainly be a change in pace and a new source of loot.


    There's also another concern to think of. When the expansion comes out people who wish to run instances in it are going to need guild support. I stress NEED and not want in that line. Why?

    Because Blizzard released that a number of the 10-25 man raids will be on RAID TIMERS. 10 man Karazhan will be on a 7 day timer similar to MC, BWL, AQ40, and Naxx. 10 man raids that have to go out over several days to complete the instance and lock you in for the week will be...problematic...to schedule. At the least we need more raid leaders to run them without crippling other raids by taking away key personel, at the most we need to make more time in the raiding slots for these small groups to go out and do their thing without cutting into the people needed to fill the 20 and 40 mans.


    Any thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?

    Do you want to see more stabs at 40 man instances?
    Alt runs?
    Double runs?
    New instances?
    How about organized PvP in preparation of fielding a TG Arena team when BC comes out?
    My sanity is not in question...
    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.




  • #2
    Re: To the future and beyond...

    Even though im sure they would be done on days when I work and thus I would be unavailable to attend. I would love to see TG stepping into AQ40. I think it's time for it. At the very least to take down Skeram. Collect those idols. Gain Broodz Rep!
    RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

    Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

    I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

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    • #3
      Re: To the future and beyond...

      Originally posted by Vinzalf View Post
      Even though im sure they would be done on days when I work and thus I would be unavailable to attend. I would love to see TG stepping into AQ40. I think it's time for it. At the very least to take down Skeram. Collect those idols. Gain Broodz Rep!
      I for one am against AQ40. Brood Rep isn't necessary, And frankly, the gear from AQ40 screams Sidegrade.
      Yes... sidegrade. as in 'It's like tier 2 for the bastard specs... you know... DPS paladins and shadow priests.'

      I don't think we're quite ready for AQ40 yet anyways... I've seen a couple fights in there, and no, i'm not knocking our uberness, but i'm gonna say that better geared and more focused guilds have had serious issues.


      In all honesty, i think we should get a third night of BWL going until we have that on mostly farm status... and THEN go play around in the other instances. BWL has become a proving grounds of sorts... If you can't handle the tricks in BWL, you won't be able to survive, say... a monstrous prophet beetle that splits into three monstrous beetles, all while mind controlling you, and earthshocking the raid for 2500 damage every three seconds.

      We're good, but lets not get cocky. We've got alot to learn.

      (But! When we are ready for those mofo's I say lets head straight to Naxx. the background story, challenges, and gear there are without peer. And Manny wants an Ashbringer).
      _________________



      I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: To the future and beyond...

        I'll just throw out my personal opinion since we're talking about my favorite topic, progression.

        I think TG should be focused primarily on MC and BWL and here are my reasons.

        1. MC is very necessary as we still have a lot of people who are looking for Tier 1 gear and item upgrades. I can only comment on the Warriors but I know Beep would really like to complete his Might set and so would some other knuckle draggers. BTW, full Might makes tanking Vael a breeze because of the set bonus. Halten needs ingots and I don't think we have any guildies who have everything they want out of there. The more we run MC the better we're geated as a guild which helps our progression in BWL. I realize MC is getting a bit tedious for many but the gear makes us better in BWL and therefore it's an absolute necessity that we grind every last usable item out of this place.

        2. I think BWL should be run at least twice a week. Personally, I'd like to see us run BWL on Thursday/Sunday with MC on Saturday. Maybe we could throw in Ony on Friday.

        3. BWL should be the target in the crosshairs for all of TG. As such, it should be our primary focus. Yes the instance is a bitch, the mobs are all jerks and it costs a lot of money. BUT it represents an achievable challenge for TG, a challenge which forces us to work better and play to our limits but is within our reach. Sure we could run into Naxx but we'd just be punishing ourselves for no real reward. BWL is the pinnacle of achievement for us at this point and at our current rate of progression I hope we'll be staring at Neph very soon! Did I mention that the loot in BWL is PHAT!

        ZG and AQ20 are weekday diversions for rep or the occasional enchant or trinket. AQ40 is a waste of time. Yes there's some great stuff in there but the amount of work it takes is insane. There are no Tier items and I don't think the return on investment is there for us, at least not when we still need so much stuff from MC and BWL. Maybe once MC is farmed out it might be worth poking our head in for curiousity sake but I don't think it should ever be a focus of ours. Besides, by the time we're geared and ready for AQ40 we'll be very busy (hopefully) with the quests from the BC. In my opinion, AQ40 was a hastily crafted diversion for the raiding guilds to stall for time until Naxx was done.

        So there ya have it, the world according to Bear! :)
        “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: To the future and beyond...

          I tend to agree with Bear and Manny on this. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm not interested in AQ40 at all, but I would rather see us devote that time to BWL. Two to three nights a week in there would be ideal in my mind. Give us time to get through the bosses we know (as we start getting them down) and then spend significant time every week on learning the next one. The Ony raids really can be done on one of those nights or even on an off night now. MC on Saturday - maybe the day will change but we're not going to be stopping going to there for a long time. That would leave us 3 or 4 days each week open for ZG/AQ/Alts/Farming or whatever.

          I would really like us to get the Jindo fight down and do 1 run every week at least for just the two idols. The enchants are definitely worth it and we should be able to make short work of both of those bosses and still have the rest of the night to do whatever. I'd love to see a "set" weeknight run and a during the day weekend run. We've discussed that before and almost always have enough ppl on Saturday or Sunday day for ZG.

          No matter what though we need to get through more of BWL and we will be able to do more if we spend more time on it. Learning MC we would often spend 3 nights a week there. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't try and do the same with BWL.

          As for how the BC instances coming in will affect our raid schedules - it should be discussed a bit I suppose. Perhaps a roadmap of desired guild progression of some sorts would help clear that up. I'm assuming that while every single one of us is excited about BC and new content that no one would be like "screw bwl, screw naxx, ive want to do this".
          Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
          Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
          ...and other distractions of various levels.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: To the future and beyond...

            I for one think that we shouldn't overwhelm ourselves with new instance while we're STILL trying to get our selves further in BWL. MC is, IMO, still a must as well. We still have many players that are lacking multiple set pieces and would probably love to have them before we start on yet another instance that we can't at this time fit into the schedule. We already rack our brains to try and accomodate all the 20-40 man instances that ppl want to do and even try to fit an alt night in there somewhere when it's possible. When TBC comes out it's most likely going to be a bit harder since everyone is going to be out exploring the new content or lvling their brand new alt.
            Supposing there was Naxx or AQ40 on the sign-up, I for one wouldn't sign up because 1. we aren't ready and 2. it would be an exercise in futility.

            |TG-Defiant| - It's you and me against the world. We attack at dawn.

            You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you.

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            • #7
              Re: To the future and beyond...

              I am all for AQ40. The Brood gear is outstanding.

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              • #8
                Re: To the future and beyond...

                I tend to agree with the others on this. I really am in no hurry to push into AQ40. Brood rep, while nice, is not worth sacrificing time spent in instances that actually help more people in the guild and push us forward, like doing MC, Ony for gear upgrades for the entire guild (which to me is far more important than anything atm) and working on BWL. I think we are having a lot of fun with Vael, first boss since Rag that has made me smile just enjoying the game. Its fun to actually have to think strategicly and the leaders have been really willing to listen to suggestions and try things out (Thanks to them!).

                I try to raid as much as I can (typically 3-4 raids a week) but if we try to push a 6-7 day a week 40 man schedule on everyone, I think we are going to lose some people who have family and outside commitments because they don't have the ability to put in that kind of time, especially if we are throwing a lot of "learning" into it with AQ40. I mean look how hard it was for us to get BWL started. A lot of people disappeared till we got Razorgore down, if we start into AQ40, do you think its going to be any different?

                As far as BC goes, I have made suggestions on this before, but I think we might need to look at how we do things and revamp our ideas of what is going to happen there, as the guild will effectively get smaller when it starts getting sliced and diced in 10-25 man raids. We might need to take on a "squad" based approach like TG does in most other games, a group that consistantly plays together who can focus on the smaller raids together and work through them. The squads come together for larger 40 mans, but focus on teamwork within squads for their smaller instances. I personally think the time to be thinking about these things is now, to start to prep people for the fact they aren't going to be able to get into every raid because of size limitations, and instance bindings. I know there will be resistance to this idea, but if it at least gets discussion going, I feel like its worth it.
                Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                | | |

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                • #9
                  Re: To the future and beyond...

                  I'll put in my short-winded vote to keep our focus on MC, Ony and BWL for gearing, ZG for the enchants/rep (and occasional gear), AQ for the books/rep (and occasional gear). My long term goal is to get into Naxx!! AQ40 would be interesting to see once or twice, but I would not be heartbroken if we didn't spend much (any) time there. I'm one for storylines as well and I'd echo Manny that the Naxx storyline is much more intriguing.

                  Has there been any thought to organizing efforts to grind AD rep to help with Naxx attunement? I'm thinking of scheduling repeated clears of Scholo/Strat (i.e. 4-6 concurrent 5-mans?)

                  We should worry about BC content once it comes and we've felt our way around it....

                  That's my 2 cents.
                  70 Priest

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                  • #10
                    Re: To the future and beyond...

                    Originally posted by Wintrow View Post
                    =Has there been any thought to organizing efforts to grind AD rep to help with Naxx attunement? I'm thinking of scheduling repeated clears of Scholo/Strat (i.e. 4-6 concurrent 5-mans?)
                    You guys aren't exalted yet? Slackers. :row__642:

                    But in all seriousness, I agree that we shouldn't start in on a new instance quite yet. We've just begun in BWL, and we need to get through at least the majority of it before we think about turning our attentions elsewhere. AQ40 would be a lot of fun, and I would like to get in there at some point. I like storylines too, and I'm interested in that particular one (mainly because I know nothing about it). Not to mention the fact that C'Thun drops an absolutely pimp dagger. :row__631: But I do realize that it might not be all that time efficient to learn all of AQ40 before we go to Naxx. So if most others voted for skipping AQ40 altogether, or at least mostly, I wouldn't be too opposed.

                    But yeah, let's concentrate on owning BWL first. :row__593:
                    Ninja

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                    • #11
                      Re: To the future and beyond...

                      I'm all for new content but there is a natural progression to this game. We barely scratched the surface of BWL and it would be unwise to spread ourselves thin on trying to learn another instance at the same time.

                      Let's focus on MC/Ony/BWL. And as far as AQ40, I would prefer to go to Naxx instead.

                      Just my two cents.
                      "Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

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                      • #12
                        Re: To the future and beyond...

                        The guild is speaking!

                        BWL! BWL! BWL!
                        _________________



                        I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: To the future and beyond...

                          AQ40's only real purpose is the end of END-GAME and is for guilds who are so enamored with total pwnage they dont really care about the rewards.

                          Brood Rep (before BC) is the ultimate finale, and to complete it you must go through AQ40.

                          In all honesty, the reason most people care not about AQ40 is simply because we havent killed the Broodlord yet. Once people have his stinky head in their bags officers will start gettin whispers; "hey, we gonna do AQ40?"

                          As well, once all these instances are down to one-nighters, especially BWL - u will need a 40-man filler... and that will probably be AQ40, Naxx thrown in later maybe. Ony and MC may even be relegated to alt-status, which further leaves room for more 40-mans.

                          As for BC, those runs should take the place of ZG/AQ20 and should NOT interfere with the multitude of 40-mans we have to deal with. The 40-mans are what make a guild... well, a guild.

                          As for AQ20, to ME, this instance is the MOST important in the game for TG as of now. CC Rep offers some of the most powerful gear there is (sub tier 3). It does offer brood rep. And MOST IMPORTANT, BOOKS. Without all your books you are weak - period... whine about gear all u want, but true strength comes from your baseline stats. Thankfully, NOW people are realizing this and the AQ20 signups are tough to get into. Eventually though, TG will have their books and it will be alt-status. This will be when BC comes in.

                          You wonder why these bosses are gettin so much easier... AQ20 is largely the answer in my opinion.

                          Back to AQ40, it takes a total guild commitment to do it and really work to make friends with the Dragons. For guilds that care only of loot, maybe it aint a good idea. For guilds that want to be "recognized" it is. For guilds that want more content to play with their fellow guildies, it is. And until we as a guild go INSIDE the instance, we really cant say what would be good or bad. As for Brood loot, yah, it's not the best - but there IS loot there, check it out and judge for yourself if it fits your toons profile.

                          I for one, want someone in this guild to carry the Scepter of Shifting Sands... why? Because it's there.

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                          • #14
                            Re: To the future and beyond...

                            My feeling is that we need to stay focused on BWL and MC. Getting our complete tier 1 and 2 sets is going to make our efforts in the other instances more productive. After the expansion, I feel that we will still need to farm MC and BWL. I believe that ZG and AQ may be replaced by the new instances or moved to alt status raids. Shifting focus now would hurt our overall progression. Naxx and AQ40 will still be there for us in the near future.


                            Silchar (70 Retribution Paladin)
                            Lightshow (70 Holy Priest)
                            Wetstone (70 Marksman Hunter)

                            "Never forget-the higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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                            • #15
                              Re: To the future and beyond...

                              Originally posted by Gambit7 View Post
                              As for AQ20, to ME, this instance is the MOST important in the game for TG as of now. CC Rep offers some of the most powerful gear there is (sub tier 3). It does offer brood rep. And MOST IMPORTANT, BOOKS. Without all your books you are weak - period... whine about gear all u want, but true strength comes from your baseline stats. Thankfully, NOW people are realizing this and the AQ20 signups are tough to get into. Eventually though, TG will have their books and it will be alt-status. This will be when BC comes in.

                              You wonder why these bosses are gettin so much easier... AQ20 is largely the answer in my opinion.

                              Back to AQ40, it takes a total guild commitment to do it and really work to make friends with the Dragons. For guilds that care only of loot, maybe it aint a good idea. For guilds that want to be "recognized" it is. For guilds that want more content to play with their fellow guildies, it is. And until we as a guild go INSIDE the instance, we really cant say what would be good or bad. As for Brood loot, yah, it's not the best - but there IS loot there, check it out and judge for yourself if it fits your toons profile.

                              Siulung, I respect your opinion, and please, don't take this as me shooting you down...

                              Books are not the be all and end all of things to have.

                              Oath, Imminent, PoA, Legacy, Reverent, Divinus... Yeah, they were pwning BWL and MC before AQ came out.

                              Books, arguably, are a crutch.

                              CC rep is just another rep grind.. it's no better, or worse than any of the other rep grinds in this game, except that it was DESIGNED to be the first REAL rep grind. ZG was introduced as an instance first... a grind second. Blizz Remapped all of Silithus to turn it into a huge, painful rep grind.

                              The gear is decent, but again, not necessary. It's not about the power of your spells, it's how you use it.
                              _________________



                              I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

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