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  • Vael...

    I saw a video today that showed the same placement as we do, but the ranged group was split into two places...Where we currently are, and in the diagonal corner from where the ranged go to die. This might help prevent the entire ranged group getting breathed on upon Vael turning. Something to think about.

  • #2
    Re: Vael...

    More on the Vael positioning, I saw these two videos where the raid was positioned on the balcony to avoid the breath.

    Video1
    Video2

    Any thoughts if these are viable positions?
    "Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

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    • #3
      Re: Vael...

      I noticed in the caster section that people seemed to take varying degrees of damage. One pull it was a fellow mage, another time it was me. The difference between the two was I simply took a few steps more fwd. to gain visibility. This SEEMS to be the trouble. Staying flush against the wall may help.
      The other hypothesis is that I might not have gotten the FA. Anyways, our positioning seems fine to me... it's just keeping the tanks up that's a problem, and simply boils down to FR and healing (I do not envy the healers' job).

      One thing I'd like to add is that Vael will go down for us easily if we simply take care of the "little things". Like using pots, stones, foods, oils, etc. Also making sure we all have the proper dmg gear and the appropriate amount of FR. If we go dmg. we'll need more healing; FR and less healing. If you're in a group that has nice FR then the healer should be throwing heals into the MELEE section instead of just standing around, this I'm sure is dependant on range as well... and at the very least the healer could throw a dmg. spell on Vael. To give an example of a "little thing:" +8dmg oil on weapon (lasts 30 mins dead or alive). This simple thing spread to ALL the casters will nearly add around 120+ dmg per spell as a raid.
      Another little thing we need to realize is handling our buffs... too many times people were missing buffs they should have, and had buffs they shouldnt. WAIT till everyone is inside the instance before buffing. When you get a "ready check" (which we should always do), only click ready if u have what u need. ALL people in direct-healing groups (druid groups) should have Dampen Magic on them - this will negate nearly 200 pts of spell damage a shot.
      Yet another thing for casters, you should only be using non-interruptable spells. Each spell cast takes nearly twice as long if u get interrupted. Do not try to cast an interruptable spell in the beginning, as u will likely be late a few seconds. Respec some arcane (mages) if u have to and spam missiles.
      Your dmg output should be like a well-oiled machine. There should be no lag or delay when dealing it. Every seconds counts.
      Communication; although not as important as in Razorgore, it's still necessary. I noticed when we fought Razor that we were simply too quiet and people died when they couldve been saved simply by speaking up (i.e. healers who catch agg.). Do not be afraid to talk if what u have to say is important. The RL doesnt OWN the TS channel. During Vael, if you or your healer dies say so; another healer will pick your group up - if u say nothing, your group will probably die. As time goes on the heals will come easier as people get BA and die (assuming healers dont get BA).
      Keep improving your toon. 2nite's MC run should help a lot. I personally busted my butt to get better bracers (which brought about a +30dmg increase) in time for the raid. U dont have a tidal loop yet? get it. You're missin a few enchants? get em. You're a few measly tokens from an epic? git er dun.
      Lastly, and most importantly... ATTENDANCE. I shudder to think of the amount of firepower we lost when we were short 3 people. If you have to LEAVE, get a replacement before even SAYING that you have to go. We should not be calling raids because people are leaving, we should be calling raids because we're tired. The raid should always stay full.


      If anyone can think of any other "little things" to add please do. We have 24hrs. to sort em out before we take another crack. I for one expect Vael to go down as long as people handle their bidness.
      Last edited by Gambit7; 10-07-2006, 04:41 PM.

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      • #4
        Re: Vael...

        The FR aura is, to my knowledge, constant and has a pretty wicked range. This has been tested by hunters who have to run to the middle of Razorgore's room before using FD to avoid getting killed by the aura. So regardless if you're standing 10 yards away or 50 yards you're still going to take the hits.

        Enchanting oils, poisons, sharpening stones, weight stones, and shaman buffs to weapons are temp buffs. As such they will fall off if you zone from server to server. IE: Kalimdor to Eastern Kingdom or Eastern Kingdom to Instance. As such they will only persist if you are rezed at your body because if you release and run back they will fall off due to zoning.

        There are all of 1 uninterruptable magic spells in the game that have a cast time. That would be Arcane Missiles with 5/5 talents in Improved arcane missiles. Everything else has an X% reduction in chance to be interrupted except for instant cast spells because its impossible to length a spell with 0 cast time by any %. Anyhow, a frost mage using frostbolts might just outdamage an arcane mage using arcane missiles regardless of disruptions. I'd have to run the numbers, but its possible.


        Now as for what I've found out during our last run.

        Priests using Prayer of Healing have to walk a very fine line and must be paired with a group of people with high FR to reduce the number of times they have to cast it. This was observed when the hunter group's healer drew aggro after a few casts of the spell once Beep went down. Why? Well if 1 point of healing produces 0.5 points of aggro (0.4 with 5/5 Subtley and 0.32 with Blessing of Salvation) then for every 5000+ heal they throw out with PoH they're netting at least 1600 aggro. In fact, on our best attempt our priest was using full shadow and healing primarily with the damage from VE. Except for the early Mind Blast crit that popped him to the top of the chart and causing a wipe, using VE for heals gave Vael more damage and gave the group steady healing that slowed down our drop in life. When a druid helped out by supplimenting the VE heals with Regrowth and Rejuv we pretty much were topped off for a good 30 seconds. Then again, it also helped that our healer died and then got a battle rez from somewhere thus letting him continue healing without all the aggro he generated from before. In fact, it might be a good idea to just LET the shadow priests die with a soulstone so they can come back without all the aggro they generated before to keep healing.

        Holy Nova is still the best way to keep a group up without generating a lot of healing or damage aggro.

        Barring that a Shadow Priest in Shadowform using VE to heal as a druid provides fast support is the second best way.

        A priest using PoH can also keep the group up, but will skirt very very close to drawing healing aggro if they have to heal frequently.
        My sanity is not in question...
        It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


        Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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        • #5
          Re: Vael...

          I'm not saying our current strat doesn't work, I know it does. But putter ranged on the balcony would save lots of people, since vael would probably just port anyone who drew aggro.

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          • #6
            Re: Vael...

            Tarenth, while I appreciate your take, someone managing their PoH is perfectly capable of staying in great shape threatwise. I usually am one of the last people who dies, and yet all I do is use PoH, the way I am doing it may be different than others, but it is very effective.

            The key is not to spam it unless you have to. While HN can be spammed generating little to no aggro, PoH requires that you watch yourself and figure out the timing. I cast PoH when one of the MT healers dropped 500hp (typically 1-2 ticks of the AE or about 3-6 seconds), then by the time it hits they are usually 1-1.5k down and it heals them fully. In that 6-9 second timeframe the tanks looked to be generating 6k+ aggro and I am usually firmly behind the tanks. The only time when I usually start jumping up the list is when one of the MT healers gets BA'ed, so I start to spam PoH to fill in the gap and keep the MT up. Even at that point, I usually am 1-3 spots behind all the warriors.

            The other thing that plays a large part of it is effective use of Fade. I use it only when the tank gets BA (usually wait for 5 seconds because I know he is going to die from damage and the MT healers are going to switch to the next tank and that takes a bit of time). Fade does not decrease your total aggro, it is basically a reverse taunt, decreasing threat for the duration of the spell (this is not aimed at your Tarenth, but those who might not know the Fade mechanic). If you time you fade right, you get yourself down lower and you aren't anywhere near the tanks when transition occurs.

            While I know that HN is great and useful, it also had drawbacks on range that toasted the priests healing the tanks because of the stupid chain cleave. PoH provided us with a way to increase the longevity of the priests healing those particular people, and it has certainly worked for that.
            Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

            | | |

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            • #7
              Re: Vael...

              Just to put the balcony idea to rest...

              I have seen it done that way, and i've seen it work... BUT. i've also seen it cause Vael to go into Evade. which is bad.

              I know this strat works guys, Just like i know every other fight in here by heart. Next week we'll own his scaley ass, and move on to the trashpacks, suppression room, and broodlord.

              If we keep our heads, i see our first BWL oneshot happening before next tuesday.:D
              _________________



              I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

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              • #8
                Re: Vael...

                From what I understand here you guys positioning is fine. Your healing tactics is what will pull you through this fight here. I would like to encourage whoever is doing your healing assignments to feel free to message Wook, Javlif, Fiela or Ajah/Kestra ingame for some pointers on how we do Vael. Also, 4-6 tanks for this fight makes it that much easier.

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                • #9
                  Re: Vael...

                  We should get used to runnin UBRS at least before one Vael attempt, as we did the last time. This is more imperative to people who cant don FR gear without saccing large amounts of stamina/dmg. If this is YOU, you need to form your UBRS group(s) and get ready to pop in there after the 1st Vael (warmup). If the RL deems we're ready for a one-shot, then it'll happen before 1st pull.
                  For me (mage), I'm probably gonna go into UBRS because it'll put me at over 210 FR without saccing anything at all. This isnt really important during the main part of the fight, as our healing is great... but moreso later on <10%, when healers have gotten BA and we're about to wipe. When we got Vael to 1%, if we ALL had the 80 FR he probably wouldve went down.

                  Also, learn to fish and bring ur buffing food. I passed out some squid (unfortunately i didnt have a lot) during the last raid - it added 10 agility. Stuff like mightfish, wolf steaks, desert dumplings, chops, etc. all add a lil extra oomph for nearly nothing. Bring a stack and pop before every fight. If you fish you can easily get rumsy rum from schools and floating wreckage... "plus you get drunk to boot." Dont just make this stuff for yourself, make it for everyone else as well; inevitably there's always someone who doesnt have it.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Vael...

                    Can someone explain the UBRS buff thing? I knew about it at some point, but my brain has failed me. Does it persist through death?
                    Ninja

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                    • #11
                      Re: Vael...

                      Originally posted by msheahen View Post
                      Can someone explain the UBRS buff thing? I knew about it at some point, but my brain has failed me. Does it persist through death?
                      It gives u 80FR until death. You get it from mindcontrolling the spellbinders in the spellbinder AOE room with the fire elemental (forgot what it's called)

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                      • #12
                        Re: Vael...

                        Originally posted by Gambit7 View Post
                        It gives u 80FR until death. You get it from mindcontrolling the spellbinders in the spellbinder AOE room with the fire elemental (forgot what it's called)
                        It lasts for 60mins, or until death, if you die less than 60mins from the time you receive the buff.
                        Uglyduck - Spec varies - Currently Prot
                        MMORPG = Many Men Online Role-Playing as Girls

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                        • #13
                          Re: Vael...

                          They actually aren't in the elemental room, they are right in the enterance, just go down instead of up the ramp by the UBRS/LBRS split.

                          Buff has a 60 second recast time, so enough time to MC, buff and then wait for MC to break and then buff again. its 81 or greater FR (the higher level ones deeping in LBRS actually get up to 85 or 86, yeah I know its only 4 or 5 FR).
                          Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                          | | |

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                          • #14
                            Re: Vael...

                            Not bad. However, I think the key is to not let these FR buff runs push back the BWL start time. In my opinion, it's unacceptable to delay the raid start by 10 minutes, let alone a half hour, just to get this buff that won't do any good if we get a little unlucky with Vael. So I say if you think this buff is important, make a point to get a group together and time it so you will all be in BWL and ready to roll at the scheduled start time.
                            Ninja

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                            • #15
                              Re: Vael...

                              Thats easy, Invites at 7/7:30, UBRS Buff at 7:15/7:45, Raid at 7:30/8.

                              Easy enough at that point. Also makes people log in at invite time not 2 mins before the raid.
                              Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                              | | |

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