Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

    Eh...if you need to buy gold to keep raiding then you're in a sad sad state.

    Futhermore...who the heck are you?

    I make 15-20g off a ZG run.
    I'm now getting 8-10g every AQ20 run from grays and loose change if we don't run Ossirian.
    MC would net me 10-15g from boss drops and the few grays I scrounged.
    BWL is the real money sink right now with a loss of 5-8g every night.

    These are all after counting overhead and repairs.

    Actually, the ZG number fluctuates because I can skin many of the beasts in that instance for good leather. All rare leather (tribal bat and tiger) goes to the bank along with a 20% cut of the rugged leather, but I can usually gather enough to make 20g by playing the market with it.
    My sanity is not in question...
    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.




  • #2
    Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

    Originally posted by Tarenth View Post
    Actually, the ZG number fluctuates because I can skin many of the beasts in that instance for good leather. All rare leather (tribal bat and tiger) goes to the bank along with a 20% cut of the rugged leather, but I can usually gather enough to make 20g by playing the market with it.
    Not to hijack the thread, but now that you bring up skinning, Tarenth... I've noticed that you often "volunteer yourself" for skinning duty in ZG (and anywhere else where skinning is possible). You will skin anything and everything possible, even if a fellow skinner has begun skinning a particular dead mob, no doubt hoping that their skin will fail and yours will succeed.

    It's all well and good that you do this and send the majority of it to the guild bank, but your 20% cut is essentially taking leather away from other guildies who can skin as well. Have you ever thought of rotating skinning duty from raid to raid? Or perhaps giving your fellow skinners an even share of your 20% cut?

    It just seems unfair that you should get that leather when others who are trying to skin as well (or have given up due to your relatively cutthroat method of just going for everything) get left with far less or nothing.
    Last edited by orion808; 10-06-2006, 05:50 PM.
    Ninja

    Comment


    • #3
      Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

      Blizzard also has a nasty habit of tracking down large transactions of gold then 'removing' it if they deem it suspicious. That's why you see on the front page occasional announcements that a number of cheaters etc have been punished.



      As for the skinning practice? Well actually I started skinning with a much more complicated system. I'd keep track of everything I skinned in ZG and then ask everyone else who was a skinner how much they skinned and then split the leather amongst everyone I talked to evenly.

      Of course, this lent itself to abuse. Since if someone was a skinner and said they only got 2-3 pieces out of the combined 80ish between 3 people then the amount they got for the little effort they made in skinning became greater. So after one or two runs of a skinner popping up who wanted leather with making no effort to skin I just stopped the 'equal shares' system. Of course there was no objection to this stop since I was the only one running it.

      Later I'd occasionally ask people I saw skinning to see how much leather they were collecting vs mine. If I was collecting drastically more than them then I'd offer some of my own to keep things fair. I did this on a case to case basis using how often someone tried to skin and kept trying until success as a rough gague as how much effort they were making to get the leather. Some people don't wish to spend time skinning and try once and walk off if they fail.

      Of course I eventually gave up on this tactic when people started to insult me when I asked if they wanted more leather to keep it fair and refused to follow the same generosity if they had more than me. I'm not going to be making the effort to keep everyone happy and waste time, effort, and brain power to such a task if they're not going to be happy anyways or return the favor.

      As for actual 'skinning duty' in ZG? There isn't any such task. The only skinning duty times are in MC where we need a single skinner to keep track of core leathers due to their value or Onyxia so that the scales have an acknowledged source. Actually, anyone could volunteer to be the skinner in Onyxia just by the virtue of being the first one to skin her.

      A rotation? I thought about it, but such a system would be time consuming and sloppy. If you haven't noticed not everyone is concerned with the relative pocket change in gold coins you can get from looting the grey loot off mobs. As such some mobs are left unlooted and thus unskinable. If we were to set up a rotation that wasn't unofficial then it would require everyone to stay long enough to loot everything that way we can parcel out who skins what fairly. It'd be a slap in the face to say "So and so gets the next group" only to find that NO ONE took the time to loot that group so they effectively get nothing to skin.

      Eventually I took the lack of an official system and the utter failures of my attempts to organize an unofficial one as a complete lack of interest in fairness when skinning. Its true too. Those same 'cutthroat methods' you accuse me of using have been employed against me a number of times. You know what? I don't mind. We're trying to work with a profession that is taken for granted and get whatever we can without the support of the raid to help us so some undercutting is to be expected. Personally? If someone is already skinning something I skin it as well then walk away without looting. This does two things: 1) If they skin and loot then they get the leather. 2) If they give up and walk away I just have to pick up the leather and not have to waste time skinning after they have already given up. I also make sure that the useful rare leathers from ZG go to the bank (I've seen some on the AH instead) and that the bank also gets a cut out of what I skin. I suppose I could split that cut with the other skinners...but then I've tried that before and just banking it is faster.
      Last edited by orion808; 10-06-2006, 05:50 PM.
      My sanity is not in question...
      It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


      Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



      Comment


      • #4
        Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

        Well it's a tricky business, this skinning thing. I guess all I can say is when I'm on a run with a fellow skinner (be it ZG or UBRS or whatever) and he just goes for everything, I immediately lose interest in trying to "compete" with him and stressing about it. So I just stop altogether.

        The best runs that I've been on are ones where it is said at the start who skins and who intends to skin, then everyone just does an informal rotation (i.e. if I skinned the last mob, and I know that there are two other people who skin, I'm going to ignore the next two mobs; or if there's a pile of six dead mobs, I'm only going to skin two of them). This, to me, is the fairest and easiest method.

        As for the cutthroat thing... it's sort of a vicious cycle, isn't it? If person A observes person B skinning and taking the leather off the mob that A was already on, then A will say "oh, so that's how it is" and then do that same thing to B. Then C has it done to him too, and he starts doing it. And so on. Your method of skinning if someone else already is, and then just leaving the leather if your skin succeeds, is a good one; it may cause confusion though, and people may see it as you trying to "ninja their leather" (even though that's not the case, obviously).

        I dunno... it's complicated. I still think the method that I suggested above is the friendliest way to go. In the end, I suppose it is just leather. :-)
        Last edited by orion808; 10-06-2006, 05:50 PM.
        Ninja

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

          It's been resurrected from the depths!!!

          Thanks, Crebis. :-P
          Ninja

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

            Tell me again why it was necessary to ressurect this discussion?
            “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

              /popcorn


              "What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow out of this stony rubbish? Son of man, you cannot say, or guess, for you know only a heap of broken images, where the sun beats, and the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief, and the dry stone no sound of water." --T.S. Eliot

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

                Originally posted by TG_Bear View Post
                Tell me again why it was necessary to ressurect this discussion?
                For the same reason any other discussion is kept on these boards: so things can be... discussed? Maybe you find no value in the topic or have nothing to add, but perhaps others do. And I for one would like to hear others' input.
                Ninja

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

                  Originally posted by Tarenth View Post
                  We're trying to work with a profession that is taken for granted and get whatever we can without the support of the raid.
                  /throws away previous 'Whining Armorsmith Post'

                  I think that there's an easy way around this, guys.
                  Start sending ALL of your leather to the bank... if some people in the raid aren't going to benefit, then no people should benefit... just like the hordes of Miners who have Souldarite/Blood of the Mountain/Dark Iron/Arcane Crystals in their bags for a whole twenty minutes before we have to send it off to the bank... never to see any form of direct profit from it.

                  True, we get to keep our dense stone. Thank god for that. ... =/.


                  I do, of course, mean this in the most joking way possible. please don't think i'm out to make you skinners miserable, i'm just pointing out that in all raids, most professions get totally screwed, unless they're less than honest about what they pick up.

                  Lets all be friends... and buisness partners!

                  (and remember.. the raid helped you kill the mobs.. so, neener neener, you got help from the raid.)
                  _________________



                  I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

                    The Primal Bat leather, Primal Tiger leather, and Core leather are the equivilant pieces to all those you mentioned, Manny.

                    The Rugged Leather and Rugged Hides that are the points of contention are similar to the Thorium Ore and Dense Stone you pick up as well.

                    And yes, the very fact that the raid is there provides some support for skinners, but full raid support? That would involve making detours to kill extra beasts ("Hey lets clear the outside of the Panther temple!") and pausing with reminders for people to loot everything so skinners can skin. Most of the time we skip pointless mobs and move as fast as possible though the instance...as we should. But that could at times leaves skinners playing catch up as they skin the 2-3 mobs out of the group of 6 then booking it to rejoin the raid with the next group they're already fighting.

                    Mining is easy. We see a Hakkari Thorium Vein and make a detour to it if its along the way. Then the miner hits it 2-4 times and comes back.
                    Herbalism is even easier. We see some herbs and we make a detour if its along the way. The herbalist hits it once and comes back.
                    Skinning is a little more of an on going process since our nodes pretty much are every single beast and skinable mob we kill. So we're constantly hitting them for leathers and could potentially hold back the raid.


                    Anyways, nothing would work as long as we don't organize our efforts. The process you describe Gaviin is faulty in its simplicity. If someone leaves before the body is looted then they'll never know the body is now skinable. So those corpses you leave behind may escape the other skinner's notice and when you skin the next corpse you believe is your turn they may not see it that way at all.

                    What do you think? Make a TGskinner channel and organize how things are collected? Someone else spearhead it this time though. I'm tired of trying to do it myself and having people gripe at me over it.
                    My sanity is not in question...
                    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

                      How about one person skin and that person shares it all with the other skinners in the group. That's what I try to do in UBRS. I am a 315 skinner and am always willing to share.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

                        :( Miners get like... two chunks of thorium from those nodes.

                        Altors idea looks feasible. do that. We're all friends here, nobody is gonna try to shaft you purposefully.
                        _________________



                        I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

                          Usually raids move too quickly to viably skin. When I do skin I often find others doing the same thing, the kind of 'cut-throat' skinning as mentioned earlier. I more often than not just get frustrated and quit skinning, because it's just not worth the frustration over a game. I'm here to have fun, not to fight with guildmates over leather.
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gaviin/Tarenth Skinning Debate

                            Interesting discussion... seems like it should be easy for the skinners to take turns. Really we're talking about ZG here right? So 20 people, one skinner asks in raid who the other skinners are and if they are interested in skinning. Problem solved. I mean there may be 3 or 4 total. I just don't believe that it can be that complicated. Rushing in skinning everything in sight and hoping to get to it first seems a bit shallow -- even in a PUG... of course I'm not a skinner -- I have an uber-profit mecca of a profession called enchanting. I just sit back and watch the money roll in.
                            Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
                            Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
                            ...and other distractions of various levels.

                            Comment

                            Connect

                            Collapse

                            TeamSpeak 3 Server

                            Collapse

                            Advertisement

                            Collapse

                            Twitter Feed

                            Collapse

                            Working...
                            X