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  • I've decided..

    I'm sick of DKP. Anyone with me on this?
    And no, it's not 'cause I'm last on the DKP list of mages.

    Just seems like lately the DKP formula is hindering our progress.

    a) high DKP people tend to sidegrade or make lateral gear moves when others in the raid would benefit more greatly; thereby WEAKENING the guild and raid as a whole. (i've seen this happen OVER AND OVER in every class)

    b) it causes people to be DKP-whores and only raid MC

    c) people with low-DKP tend not to sign up for raids we're not good at. i.e. new content, 'cause they cant get out of the DKP hole.

    d) people with high-DKP tend not to sign up for raids we're not good at. i.e. new content, 'cause they cant GAIN DKP

    d) it'll have to go byebye for BC anyways

    e) it makes us not TALK about who should roll on loot and who should not.

    f) people who SHOULD roll on loot DONT for fear of spending DKP

    g) it slows down the raid

    h) .... there's more, just cant think of it now



    What's the point of it really except to keep greedy people somewhat in check? And if the greedy people hog the raids then the system has failed anyways. It will have to be phased out for BC most likely so this thread is somewhat stupid, so bare with me.


    -Siu
    ... just my opinion guys... and do i care it's long-standing guild policy? Nope. Policies are meant to be changed over time.

  • #2
    Re: I've decided: DKP sux

    bla bla bla

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I've decided: DKP sux

      i) it's zero sum neways

      j) Altor is a dodo head

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I've decided: DKP sux

        -50 Dkp For Joo!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I've decided: DKP sux

          suggestion: spend ur DKP before BC (makes sense)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I've decided: DKP sux

            Well, I'm certainly glad you decided it sucks.

            At least we have hours of good, substancial factual evidence to support this claim. Expecially all these facts that I see constantly pouring out about BC.

            we use a very versatile system, I've fought to keep it as rigid as I could, to be as stable as it could, and to be as fair as I could.

            But it occurs to me, now, that it's being used as a scapegoat.
            I would argue that the real issue lies with your peers, and not the dkp system. But, it's easier to blame an authoritative idea that does not defend itself.
            RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

            Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

            I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I've decided: DKP sux

              Originally posted by Vinzalf View Post
              Well, I'm certainly glad you decided it sucks.

              At least we have hours of good, substancial factual evidence to support this claim. Expecially all these facts that I see constantly pouring out about BC.

              we use a very versatile system, I've fought to keep it as rigid as I could, to be as stable as it could, and to be as fair as I could.

              But it occurs to me, now, that it's being used as a scapegoat.
              I would argue that the real issue lies with your peers, and not the dkp system. But, it's easier to blame an authoritative idea that does not defend itself.
              Point taken... i guess DKP is the lesser of more greater evils - i just dont like it. I'd rather see people able to handle it themselves intellectually. BTW shalth, i love the way u handle it and everyone says OUR DKP system is great. I just dont like it.

              Also, I'm having trouble identifying if there's sarcasm in your post.

              Lastly, since ur in BC... do you think we'll be able to maintain DKP when it arrives?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I've decided: DKP sux

                Understood.

                A Little bit.

                I don't see why not. It might take a little while for the levels to get there again, but the raid gear from BC is a continuation from the raid gear in WoW. Not another level altogether.
                RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

                Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

                I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I've decided: DKP sux

                  um.... it has worked near-flawless for 6 months... so why change it... -.-
                  powered by Windows 7

                  . . . .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I've decided: DKP sux

                    Originally posted by Gambit7 View Post
                    suggestion: spend ur DKP before BC (makes sense)
                    Who's with me for banning any more chicken-little, the-world-will-end-when-BC-comes-out-and-everything-will-change-ZOMG-EMO talk?!?!?!

                    Every post has somthing like this in it....

                    Focus on current events guys!
                    70 Priest

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I've decided: DKP sux

                      okay, i digress... feel free to erase said whiney post

                      It more has to do with people then the system I suppose, as others seem to agree with. System is fine, just cant really account every human element.

                      As for BC, I'm sure DKP will be effected in many ways and we'll maybe have to tweak it... but we'll jump off that bridge when we get there I guess.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I've decided: DKP sux

                        Democracy is the worst system of government except for all other systems of government.
                        That's what zero-sum is. It has its flaws. It has its upsides. I believe its upsides outweigh its flaws.

                        The classes can work out their looting in their channels. I don't have 8/8 Lawbringer. If the bracers/boots/chest drop, I have enough DKP to make them mine. But, they're sidegrades for me, and people like Yoddea and Saril need them more. Therefore, they're going to get them over me. I mean, I would wear my Lawbringer chest on a total of TWO fights.

                        The challenge comes when cross-class stuff drops. But then, I don't hesitate to pop into warrior chat when a plate piece or a 2h drops that I might be able to get. I just pop in and say, "hey, I know you guys have prio, but if no one really wants that, or if it's not an upgrade, mind if I bid?" So far, no problems.

                        Respect for your fellow player is the general rule here, guys.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I've decided: DKP sux

                          To be honest I think the biggest problem lies in the fact that because more and more people are being geared (which is good) we are having to DE a lot of purples. I find it quite odd that there is zero dkp for stuff that gets DE'd heck even a flat rate per nexus would be fine. Also as for learning instances i have brought up before that a very (and i do mean very) small dkp for comming out and sticking to the entire attempt, or something like double DKP for 1st time eva boss downage would encourage more ppl to come. I have not had a problem myself as i was gone with army cadets for 3 months and came back with all the rest of the warriors fully geared (i had no dkp as dkp had not been brought to the guild before i left) but i got geared quickly due to everyone else having it. to be honest forget about BC until it is upon us and 100% done. we dont know what it is going to be like (test realm is just that a test, they could go and change everything if they wanted). otherwise there would be no point to having the MC, BWL, AQ, NAXX if BC gear is soooo much better. obviously this will not be the case. I fully plan on getting my full tier 1 and sticking with that for a long while as it is a fairly good tanking set (minus short some def but enchants and trinkets will help).

                          wow i think this is my longest post evar.

                          my 2c
                          FOR THE DICKENS!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I've decided: DKP sux
                            • If its not broke, don't fix it.
                            • If you have nothing constructive to add, keep your pie hole shut.
                            • If you have no suggestions for something better, don't be insulting the status quo.


                            Lovely advice from general management and the proceedure of leadership and followership. The DKP system we have is fine. The act of DEing more and more items is a problem me and Manny verbally dueled over when I posted a few suggestions a while back over the creation of an nonenity to throw out DKP for those items and both arguements still hold valid.

                            In a nut shell:
                            • If DKP were to be given out for items we DEed it would cause an inflation in DKP for older members against newer raiders. This inflation would come about because they would continue to accumulate DKP while the newer members spent theirs on drops. This would create a rift between the two sides that would end with the veterans having a substancial lead over new raiders that would effectively lock them out of newer more desirable drops regardless of how much they have raided with us.
                            • If DKP were not to be given out for DE items it would cause a DKP sinkhole for newer raiders that would be detrimental to their moral and provide a substancial gap for the veteren raiders to hold over them to effectively lock them out of newer drops. Basically its the opposing view but in reverse. Once a veteren raider completes their sets and acquires all the loot they wish to get out of an instance their DKP can only rise. If something drops that someone wants their DKP goes up and if something drops that noone wants their DKP stays the same. However newer raiders may get locked in the negitive since they are still taking items while others have stopped spending. This means if something drops they want they lose DKP, if something drops that someone else wants they gain DKP, and if something drops that no one wants they don't change. The primary difference is the system rewards people for finishing their sets first so they can stop spending and start hording DKP while newer raiders are forced to try to make up a deficit with an increasingly smaller influx of DKP into the system since more and more people no longer need the drops.



                            When BC comes about the system will adapt or be scrapped as the situation calls for it. But that change will only be made once BC comes out. For now stick with what we have and be happy that Shal did a great job.
                            My sanity is not in question...
                            It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                            Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I've decided: DKP sux

                              Well said Tarenth. IMO, Zero-sum is the fairest system that is out there. It eliminates alot of discripencies that could arise. There is more people in favor of DKP systems than not.
                              "As Above, So Below"

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