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  • What are you waiting for?

    ehh... im kinda bummed... for 2 weeks in a row... no bosses will be killed in BWL due to a lack of participation of signups..... we have MORE THAN ENOUGH of every class (look at every MC that goes filled with 15+ in queue)... why cant we do the same thing in BWL?
    why doesnt anyone want to see new bosses?
    i dont want to be an 'MC Raider' forever....

    we switched the BWL days to be when MC was... nothing.... imho.. if we dont start having the people that are currently in the guild... we will recruit more.... then u will have more competition to compete with with loot... signups... and being part of the fun.....


    :icon11:
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  • #2
    Re: What are you waiting for?

    Originally posted by Chair View Post
    ehh... im kinda bummed... for 2 weeks in a row... no bosses will be killed in BWL due to a lack of participation of signups..... we have MORE THAN ENOUGH of every class (look at every MC that goes filled with 15+ in queue)... why cant we do the same thing in BWL?
    why doesnt anyone want to see new bosses?
    i dont want to be an 'MC Raider' forever....

    we switched the BWL days to be when MC was... nothing.... imho.. if we dont start having the people that are currently in the guild... we will recruit more.... then u will have more competition to compete with with loot... signups... and being part of the fun.....


    :icon11:
    The amount of competition will remain linear as content gets added. Right now we're just behind the curve; simple math really.

    The content currently outdoes the guild size due to roster losses over time.

    So I wouldnt worry about competition too much. Eventually we'll be whining about signups for AQ40, Naxx, and BC stuff as well.

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    • #3
      Re: What are you waiting for?

      firstly: if we add ppl to roster... they will signup.. the people that ARENT signing up.. will want to sign up.. because they now have to compete for the same spot... it is a simple REAL WORLD thing called supply and demand...

      secondly:
      um.... no... we have enough 'mains' to do a 40 man and a 20 man.. with enough to spare... we have the numbers.. bot not the signups...

      thirdly.... i want to see a day where we 'need more for naxx'... do u not?
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      • #4
        Re: What are you waiting for?

        My solution to this is very easy.. We set a night for a raid... If 40 people show up then we go to BWL, if we dont get the numbers, then we do MC.. simple as that.. It really pisses me off ( excuse my language ). To see that we can get 40 people for MC no matter what day we schedule it on. You guys catch my drift...

        I feel that the officers need to make decisions here, and change raids unexpectedly.. You guys always say that its not fair, but in reality, its not fair to people like Bear who takes time away from his child on his birthday to sit at the entrance of BWL just to get told that were not going to raid.. Its not fair to Bear nor anyone else there, people take time out of there busy schedules to raid, If you guys would trust me on this and start doing this, in less than 2 weeks time we will find that do have the numbers we need and that people WILL show up..

        This is just my opinion, but I feel its the best opinion i have. And Bear thank you for taking the time to at least show up to tonights raid.

        I appologize how often you guys have heard this, but just think about it please..
        QUOTE : "Icsist has a little shameless behavior in the past"
        Nice remark guys.

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        • #5
          Re: What are you waiting for?

          Actually we went into MC with 33 people at start and eventually built ourselves up to 38. Seriously? We could clear to Garr with 20 people and we've actually done it before when we used to farm MC for bracers, belts, and cores.

          For BWL its pretty much 38-40 or bust. First pull is a boss and we need everyone there with the right gear and right experience to pull it off. Vael is even more frustrating and more of a gear cap.

          Personally? I haven't seen BWL in weeks due to real life. Also, we've had a lot of people go on hiatus for the same reason. This just isn't the season for heavy raiding and it shows.
          My sanity is not in question...
          It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


          Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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          • #6
            Re: What are you waiting for?

            Originally posted by Tarenth View Post
            Personally? I haven't seen BWL in weeks due to real life. Also, we've had a lot of people go on hiatus for the same reason. This just isn't the season for heavy raiding and it shows.

            That maybe true Tarenth, but how come we can still get full MC raids? Even on weekdays it appears. If you cant make it then you cant make it.. It happens, But the question is ( and this is not pointed towards you Tarenth, its just a question in general ). Could you make it if we were raiding MC that night?
            QUOTE : "Icsist has a little shameless behavior in the past"
            Nice remark guys.

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            • #7
              Re: What are you waiting for?

              Originally posted by Icsist View Post
              That maybe true Tarenth, but how come we can still get full MC raids? Even on weekdays it appears. If you cant make it then you cant make it.. It happens, But the question is ( and this is not pointed towards you Tarenth, its just a question in general ). Could you make it if we were raiding MC that night?
              Icsist,

              Thanks for the kind words although please don't make it seem like my contribution is any greater than anyone else who tweaks their schedule to show up for a raid. The officers and raid leaders do that and more multiple nights per week. I didn't exactly blow my son's birthday off, I just dramatically accelerated the schedule. In retrosptect, I wasted my time. From my perspective I felt it was imperative that I be there after all the whining, bitching, pissing and moaning I did about signups. To set aside 2-3 hours of time to raid is a big commitment for anyone.

              If you really, really want to see what's happening with BWL do what I did. Go review the raid calendar for the last 3 months. Look at who has been going to MC and who hasn't been going to BWL. You'l be surprised at what you see. What I can't understand is why people are gearing up their toon in MC only to avoid BWL. I guess all that gear must be for looks :)

              I was a bit harsh tonight on Crebis and the officers but I was extremely frustrated as are a lot of TG'ers. I apologize if my tone was overly confrontational. I really really want to believe in the structure and future of the TG guild. I'm going to hold onto the faith that the ship will get righted and we'll back on course to killing Neph by at least Christmas if not sooner.
              “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

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              • #8
                Re: What are you waiting for?

                If I'm not there I'm not there. ;)

                As for the other part of the question? Its maybe a good 20-30 minutes from first pull to the first boss and almost 1-2 hours after that before we need a full raid in MC. We can get 40 in MC simply because we can still raid MC until we get it. The same is not true with BWL as I mentioned before.

                When you're raiding BWL its 40 man or bust. Going in with less makes things significantly harder because the difference between first pull and first boss is measured in seconds, not minutes.

                In other words:

                We can get 40 for MC because we can start with 20 and keep asking until we get the 40. You can't start BWL with 20 and its basically start or bust.

                Want a better comparison? The number of times we've gotten a full 40 man raid to Onyxia I can count on 1 hand (at least those I've been to). There's also that curse where we fail horrendously at Ony with 40 people, but we're ususally in there with 33-36.

                The question you should be asking is: "If we can get 36 people for Ony at the start, why can't we get 36 for BWL?"

                Of course this has another problem to it. The number of Ony raids where we've had the same number of healers and warriors as REQUIRED for BWL is vanishingly small. Heck, there were a few times where we had a paladin or druid tank Ony...not really an option with Razorgore kiting or Vael.
                My sanity is not in question...
                It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What are you waiting for?

                  Ony is just abit different in my opinion due to the fact that it is such a short raid.. It is alot easier for people to commit to a 30 minute raid than it is to commit to a whole night of raiding.

                  Back to your comment.. Since we have had Rags on "farm status" how often have we gone into MC starting with 20 people and picked up others on the way? Usually there are people in Que for MC.
                  QUOTE : "Icsist has a little shameless behavior in the past"
                  Nice remark guys.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What are you waiting for?

                    In my honest opinion, i think people are looking at it like this..

                    Full clear MC 20+ DKP.
                    Ony 2.5-5 DKP
                    BWL very little DKP if any ( and a repair bill ).

                    Im sorry to say, but this seems like it may be a huge reason why people are not showing up. But there is nothing we can do to change it without getting people to show up so we can kill the bosses.
                    QUOTE : "Icsist has a little shameless behavior in the past"
                    Nice remark guys.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What are you waiting for?

                      Originally posted by Icsist View Post
                      In my honest opinion, i think people are looking at it like this..

                      Full clear MC 20+ DKP.
                      Ony 2.5-5 DKP
                      BWL very little DKP if any ( and a repair bill ).

                      Im sorry to say, but this seems like it may be a huge reason why people are not showing up. But there is nothing we can do to change it without getting people to show up so we can kill the bosses.
                      If DKP is really the issue (and if it is how pathetic) how about something a little radical?

                      All the DKP for MC will be "banked" for BWL and divided between the bosses killed. During an MC run players will be allowed to roll on loot under the standard terms and the DKP will be deducted from your toon. BUT, in order to earn it back you do that in BWL. If MC is worth 20 then 20 is split between the number of bosses killed in BWL.
                      “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What are you waiting for?

                        it very well may have to come down to that.. Sorry to say.

                        Good idea btw, i like where your going with this.
                        QUOTE : "Icsist has a little shameless behavior in the past"
                        Nice remark guys.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What are you waiting for?

                          Originally posted by Chair View Post
                          thirdly.... i want to see a day where we 'need more for naxx'... do u not?
                          I dont want to see ANY days where we need more people. I like seeing full raids. Chair, I've actually been scolded a few times for trying too hard to fill them.

                          Raids should be perpetually full... always.

                          If they're not full that means someone is missing out and in the long run it slows down the guild, progress, and content... ultimately the total fun factor. If you want a more specific explanation of this then search prior forum threads.

                          As for "competition" for raids; I really believe it's a Myth. You cant honestly believe that having 5 out of 7 days as 40-man raids will result in too much competition. Fact is... we wont be able to do it currently unless we have 40-man rosters where you're required to go or you lose your spot. AND, of course this is against guild policy, as it should be.

                          **The Paradox here is the fact that in order for TG to keep its "casual/fun" identity that we have to increase our size - if just slightly. OTHERWISE, we'll have to be exceptionally ANAL in order to really get anywhere.**

                          Define Anal:
                          1) raid rosters
                          2) not listing where we go for raids
                          3) CLs cracking the whip on rotations
                          4) gkicks for perpetual no-shows
                          5) unrealistic gear requirements
                          6) interguild raids (i.e. guild mergers)
                          7) exotic DKP bribes, etc.

                          If some of you remember back in the day we were advised to not push the raid schedule too much because we knew that we wouldnt be able to field the raids and we'd end up wasting people's time. I remember Orion/Crebis himself mentioning this to me long ago.

                          How all of a sudden has this changed?? answer: it hasnt... we still cant push the schedule.

                          BWL, naxx,aq40, 2x20s, BC, etc. = pushing the schedule

                          Edit:
                          Anal fixation: TG was/is not an anal guild. Enacting all kinds of arbitrary rules, bribes, rosters, etc. goes completely against what/why we're here. TG used to be a place where if you were simply a Mature Gamer that expressed the tactical values and good-fun we liked you were basically "in-like-Flynn". Forums and TS were open. People were friendly, loose, and skilled. It was basically a weigh-station for everyone who liked to game with quality. Why is it that WoW should be any different??
                          Last edited by Gambit7; 11-11-2006, 01:31 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: What are you waiting for?

                            Originally posted by TG_Bear View Post
                            If DKP is really the issue (and if it is how pathetic) how about something a little radical?

                            All the DKP for MC will be "banked" for BWL and divided between the bosses killed. During an MC run players will be allowed to roll on loot under the standard terms and the DKP will be deducted from your toon. BUT, in order to earn it back you do that in BWL. If MC is worth 20 then 20 is split between the number of bosses killed in BWL.
                            Shall we resurrect my "DKP sux" thread?? :)

                            Seriously, "radical" would be FREEZING all current DKP values and simply doing away with it at least for a while until we can get situated.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What are you waiting for?

                              Originally posted by TG_Bear
                              f you really, really want to see what's happening with BWL do what I did. Go review the raid calendar for the last 3 months. Look at who has been going to MC and who hasn't been going to BWL.

                              That is not a valid indicator of anything other than what ppl are willing to sign up for.

                              It does not show actual attendance. For me, I frequently don't sign up for events that I don't think I can attend. Sometimes my plans change and I can make an event, usually as a sub. This is not reflected in the raid calendar.
                              Uglyduck - Spec varies - Currently Prot
                              MMORPG = Many Men Online Role-Playing as Girls

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